Would Embracing Technology Improve Pace of Play?

[silver & black]

How about we make automated carts with timers and cameras. Located in the clubhouse is a cart monitoring system that will show how spaced out everyone on the course is, the shop can monitor the players on camera and even tell them to pick up pace. If players continue to be slow you can disable the cart to allow faster groups to play through or they can take over control and drive the carts back to the clubhouse.

 

Don't give the players technology, give control to the course itself

Greens fees would be astronomical if they loaded all the carts with that tech.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Greens fees would be astronomical if they loaded all the carts with that tech.

I've played several courses that use gps in the cart and have a pace of play clock on them and you can see where the other carts are on your hole. Green fees were on par with other courses

[Golfspy_CG2]

Greens fees would be astronomical if they loaded all the carts with that tech.

Not necceaely. Often times those GPS Monitors don't cost extra as they either come with a preprogrammed add package.

 

 

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[MaxEntropy]

I've played several courses that use gps in the cart and have a pace of play clock on them and you can see where the other carts are on your hole. Green fees were on par with other courses

 

Me too, but only a couple times on resort type courses. The numbers turned red when we were behind pace and green when we were ahead of pace.

 

Ultimately, I believe proper usage of technology could improve the pace of play, but requires work from the course staff to monitor and hold people accountable.

 

For what it's worth, when I started this topic, I was primarily considering the pros being allowed to adopt technology (even though it is not clear), and Rover Rick's post is a perfect illustration of when it could save time.

 

More than anything, it seems that finding a reasonable way to hold people accountable would probably have the greatest impact, whether it is for pros or amateurs.

[HardcoreLooper]

We should have one set of rules for pros and amateurs, and both pros and amateurs should have access to the same information. Most of the time, pros have better info than we do, but Rick points out a situation where someone with a GPS has better info than Jordan did. LRF / GPS isn't going to slow a pro down, it will just replace the yardage book. Will it speed them up? In extreme situations like Rick points out, yes. On average, it will be a wash. It saves the caddy from the chance of a bad yardage.

 

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[RoverRick]

We should have one set of rules for pros and amateurs, and both pros and amateurs should have access to the same information. Most of the time, pros have better info than we do, but Rick points out a situation where someone with a GPS has better info than Jordan did. LRF / GPS isn't going to slow a pro down, it will just replace the yardage book. Will it speed them up? In extreme situations like Rick points out, yes. On average, it will be a wash. It saves the caddy from the chance of a bad yardage.

 

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I disagree that it won't speed up all tournament play. The first time I went to a pga tournament I was shock at how long it took them to hit the ball.

 

The caddie going to the ..... oops. Just had a thought. Maybe they don't want to give pga players something to speed up getting yardage's because they want them to have something to do while waiting for the green to clear.

 

 

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[RickyBobby_PR]

Me too, but only a couple times on resort type courses. The numbers turned red when we were behind pace and green when we were ahead of pace.

 

Ultimately, I believe proper usage of technology could improve the pace of play, but requires work from the course staff to monitor and hold people accountable.

 

For what it's worth, when I started this topic, I was primarily considering the pros being allowed to adopt technology (even though it is not clear), and Rover Rick's post is a perfect illustration of when it could save time.

 

More than anything, it seems that finding a reasonable way to hold people accountable would probably have the greatest impact, whether it is for pros or amateurs.

Regarding your last paragraph 1) pga tour doesn't really care to hold anyone accountable because it's not affecting advertising dollars. If the tv guys said we need to change the length of broadcasts or advertisers were pulling out because events were taking to long (this will never happen) then pga tour might be more likely to enforce their pace of play policy

 

2) for everyday golfers it's in the course to do that. We have several courses in this area some with god enable carts and some without that do a great job with pace of play. They have a stated policy on what the expectation for pace is, they have what the actions will be for anyone who falls behind and they enforce it so to the golfer it's no just words. The marshalls are constantly on the course monitoring each groups pace. Most courses don't have the knowledgeable starters/Marshall's to monitor/enforce a policy or lack a stated policy or lack the cajones to enforce it

[RoverRick]

More than anything, it seems that finding a reasonable way to hold people accountable would probably have the greatest impact, whether it is for pros or amateurs.

 

That is a tough tough tough call on the Pros. Take my example, they (Kuch and Jordan) were already getting told by the officials to pick up the pace before this event took place. Primarily because Jordan who ain't exactly a speedy player anyway, which I think would improve with GPS or LRF, was spraying the ball all over the course up to this point.

 

Certainly, giving him a penalty in this situation would have changed the course of history and ultimately would have been more of a story than the great play that followed. The R&A, in this case, let the tournament play out without interfering. This turned out to be a major windfall for the sponsors anyway so they weren't complaining.

 

As for regular golfers and pace of play, I have very limited experience. I play at a private club and everyone seems pretty good about let faster groups through, and any mishaps I have had were pretty much isolated incidents.

[txgolfjunkie]

I played yesterday with my 70 year-old dad who wears a GPS watch. I played with a GPS watch with club tagging system, a LRF and my phone up and running to check the club tags every now and then. I noticed that it didn't speed up play at all, and to top it off, we spent more time checking our tech instead of engaging in the social aspect of the game. I have a large family and getting quality one on one time with my dad can be difficult off the golf course. Instead of asking how my dad was doing, I wanted to make sure my app showed I hit a 9 iron from the fairway. 

 

I think you can do away with a lot of technology if the courses put in a little effort for obtaining a quick yardage because that's why we use technology...to verify yardages. On the tee box, give the yardage to the hole and then make the yardage to any bunkers/hazards/doglegs available for quick club selection. In the fairway and rough, make sure the yardages on the sprinklers are easily readable, put signs on trees or large objects that give you a yardage to the middle of the green and bump up tee boxes on the weekends to shorten the course and speed up play. I don't own or run a golf course and I know most budgets are limited, but I would think you could attract more golfers with a quick round of golf by making sure the average golfer has all the yardage info needed to make a club selection, hit the shot and move on. 

 

I think technology is good for the game, but right now it appears to be in overload mode with no benefit for pace of play among most amateur golfers.  

[KevinE]

For Pros, I am totally against rangefinders and "green books". As, in life, technology has taken over the human aspect of everything.We, don't even talk anymore, it has to be a text. Not a fan, let's talk not text. But, that is a battler this dinosaur is losing.  A caddies relationship, conversation and advice to a Pro should not be sacrificed for a device. Books are, in my opinion cheating. Only because I think green reading, is as much about putting as the mechanics of the stroke, itself. It would be like me using an alignment stick, on course, during a round, with every 7 iron shot. Without proper alignment, you could have Sam Snead's swing and never hit a green. That's just me. As, for the amateur, if used properly, I don't think technology, (range finders, GPS etc. still NO Green Books), should slow down play. Ready golf is still ready golf. While you are waiting for me to shoot. you can have your yardage, club and still be ready to go. That being said, to get some people to play ready golf, with or without devices, can be as difficult as reading War and Peace in one sitting. My final thought is, I personally don't believe technology speeds up a round. Maybe in tests, on paper it could but not on the links.

[KevinE]

We should have one set of rules for pros and amateurs, and both pros and amateurs should have access to the same information. Most of the time, pros have better info than we do, but Rick points out a situation where someone with a GPS has better info than Jordan did. LRF / GPS isn't going to slow a pro down, it will just replace the yardage book. Will it speed them up? In extreme situations like Rick points out, yes. On average, it will be a wash. It saves the caddy from the chance of a bad yardage.

 

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We should have one set of rules for pros and amateurs, and both pros and amateurs should have access to the same information. Most of the time, pros have better info than we do, but Rick points out a situation where someone with a GPS has better info than Jordan did. LRF / GPS isn't going to slow a pro down, it will just replace the yardage book. Will it speed them up? In extreme situations like Rick points out, yes. On average, it will be a wash. It saves the caddy from the chance of a bad yardage.

 

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I appreciate your thought. But, while I may agree on the theory, I disagree on the premise. The Pros do play under some different rules than most of us. They also are privy to better information than most of us. But, also they also play under much, much better conditions (golf courses) than most of us. I don't believe a range finder or green's book has a place in Professional golf. The golfer/caddy relationship is a human factor that would be diminished by technology. As far as saving a caddy from yardage, that's his job, and if he loops for a money maker, he or she makes a pretty good living. My boss doesn't tell me to get a device on the company dime,so I don't make mistakes, he tells me . do your job and don't make  mistakes. I know that thought process is old school, but that's just me. And NO I don't like instant replay in baseball, I enjoyed Earl Weaver, Billy  Martin ripping an umpire apart, again that's just me.

[cnosil]

. It would be like me using an alignment stick, on course, during a round, with every 7 iron shot..

You can use a golf club to make sure you are aligned correctly, just have to remove it prior to taking a shot. I saw a Symetra player doing this on her tee shots a few years ago. Nothing illegal about checking you alignment. I am pretty sure The only change the new rules will take into account is using your caddie to make sure you are properly aligned prior to your shot.

[KevinE]

You can use a golf club to make sure you are aligned correctly, just have to remove it prior to taking a shot. I saw a Symetra player doing this on her tee shots a few years ago. Nothing illegal about checking you alignment. I am pretty sure The only change the new rules will take into account is using your caddie to make sure you are properly aligned prior to your shot.

Thanks for that bit of info. I was unaware that it was permissible. I looked it up and yes, you can do as you stated except on the putting green. Still against the "Greens Book", just won't use the alignment stick analogy anymore. Again thanks for the education.

[Mr. 82]

If you were slow without technology, you'll be slower WITH technology, as it just gives you more crap to sort through.

[HardcoreLooper]

I appreciate your thought. But, while I may agree on the theory, I disagree on the premise. The Pros do play under some different rules than most of us.

What are the different rules that pros play under? There may be rules that come into play for them that do not for us (like temporary immovable obstructions), but if we played courses with TV towers, we'd get the same relief.

 

They also are privy to better information than most of us.

That is absolutely true. But why is that acceptable? Why is it OK? They already have spotters to find balls and crowds to stop wayward drives and trample down rough. Why should pros have advantages that we don't have?

 

But, also they also play under much, much better conditions (golf courses) than most of us.

I don't believe a range finder or green's book has a place in Professional golf. The golfer/caddy relationship is a human factor that would be diminished by technology. As far as saving a caddy from yardage, that's his job, and if he loops for a money maker, he or she makes a pretty good living.

As for yardages being the caddy's job, that's probably the least important part of it. I caddied at a club for nine years. I didn't even need a book; after a couple of months, I knew every inch of that place like the back of my hand. Anyone can train themselves to step a precise yard and then count steps from some sprinkler head or tree. Getting yardages is not a skill. I was much more valuable providing advice. What club to hit, where to hit it, lay up or go for it. That's how I made my money. If I'd had a laser or GPS, I'd have gotten the yardages that much faster.

 

My boss doesn't tell me to get a device on the company dime,so I don't make mistakes, he tells me . do your job and don't make  mistakes. I know that thought process is old school, but that's just me.

If I'm a pro, I want to have every legal advantage. Right now, that's the best, most accurate yardage book available. Given a rule change, it's a good SkyCaddie and a laser. And they're functionally equivalent.

 

 

And NO I don't like instant replay in baseball, I enjoyed Earl Weaver, Billy  Martin ripping an umpire apart, again that's just me.

[Alf. S]

A lot of over-thinking this with lasers, gps, etc.

 

Want to improve pace of play? An old school time clock at the first tee and 18th green along with a sign in the pro shop that reads “Rounds completed in 3:30 to 4:00 hours receive $10 off their greens fee. Finish in 3:29 or less, $15 off”.

 

Guarantee pace of play picks up.

 

 

 

 

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Seriously pay people to pay quickly! In a competition 3 ball I take about 3 hrs 45 mins to go round. I can just imagine it kicking off in the Club House that we cost the group behind $45 because we were too slow.

[RoverRick]

What are the different rules that pros play under? There may be rules that come into play for them that do not for us (like temporary immovable obstructions), but if we played courses with TV towers, we'd get the same relief.

 

 

That is absolutely true. But why is that acceptable? Why is it OK? They already have spotters to find balls and crowds to stop wayward drives and trample down rough. Why should pros have advantages that we don't have?

 

Let's see, they have to wear long pants and they can't drink on the course.

 

As far as they have more information than we do, we can have the same info for a price. You can buy a set of PGA/Champions Tour yardage books on eBay right now for $500.

 

I have played some courses that have yardage books that while it may not have the exact info the pros have, it is available for a price.

[AH1980MN]

I am more skeptical of the green reading app since putting has as much to do with pace as aim. And pace depends on the force you use on the ball, the slope, and the grain of the green.

 

Last Sunday, my ball was above the hole leaving me a downhill lighting fast putt, and was standing beside one of my foursome looking at the slope and the grain, and said, "Look at that shine on the grass. It looks like they have just waxed this green." My putting stroke was maybe an inch long and rolled the putt 10' into the hole.

Careful- you'll get fired from the Master's telecast!

[HardcoreLooper]

Let's see, they have to wear long pants and they can't drink on the course.

I'll spot you those. I'm talking about USGA rules, though.

[RoverRick]

Careful- you'll get fired from the Master's telecast!

 

I fear that would be inevitable if I were to spend that much time talking to Faldo.

[RoverRick]

I'll spot you those. I'm talking about USGA rules, though.

 

Yeah but those are deal killers. Makes golf seem like work. Oops, I guess it is for them. Nevermind.

[BIG STU]

Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear....

 

The 13th hole at The Open Championship 2017. Jordan Speith hits a ball into mountain goat territory, then brilliantly asks if the driving range in OB. It was not. Then under a 1 stroke penalty takes Line of Sight Relief, and then free relief under the Temporary Movable Obstruction Rule.

 

Turns a double bogey or worse into a bogey, then catches fire and shoots 4 under in the next 3 holes and goes on to win the Championship.

 

Him taking those rulings and the discussion the options took 12-15 minutes. It was actually pretty cool to watch and once again, brilliant use of the rules.

 

What was excruciating to watch was the next 15-18 minutes of him and Micheal trotting up and down the berms trying to find the flag and something close to the distance.

 

I have a Mobitee App that in a few seconds would have told me I was 220 to the closest edge of the green, 236 to the middle, and 248 to the back of the green. With a push of an icon on the phone, it would have also told me the direction that aim to the center of the green.

 

I am soon to have a Precision Pro NX7 PRO Laser Range Finder, (do you like the way I dropped that name in there? Learned that watching NASCAR.) and I know Geller has a lesser brand of LRF in the bag for practice rounds, but he could have stood on the top of the hill and shot the flag, and then shot to where Jordan had dropped.

 

Of course Jordan still had to make that shot. He missed the green but got up and down showing great skill, but claims Geller was spot on with his distances and he, Jordan, failed to hit the shot. (But I digress).

 

They look at yardage books, pin sheets, pages that have the breaks of the green drawn in, and they have yardage markers to pace it off from. They have someone who is an expert at calculating distances. So why can't they have technology that would definitely speed up pace of play.

I will throw in my NASCAR plug now---- If that new Nexus Rangefinder is half as good as the original one I tested for MGS then you got something. Mine is still kicking. But it was smart marketing on their point choosing me> I think I have sold 5 or 6 of them for those folks since I tested mine. The reason I did not put in for the new test was the fact I am so satisfied with mine I figured some other MGSer needed to do the test on the newer model and hope they love theirs as much as I do mine