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Do you have more control with the 58 than the 50 or 54? Just curious why you hit a high lofted shot all of the time?

What is the benefit of it for your game?

 

I know you are not asking me that, but using the method below, I averaged 12 feet from the pin today for the 13 times I was inside 100 yards. Two more times I was within 2 feet of the hole. For example on 12 I was 93 yards from the flag so based on the 52* 3/4 shot going 85 I added a bit to it, bringing the club not ear high but above the ear and below the top of the head. it landed right next to the flag about 3 feet and ran to about 12.

 

Before I took off for a couple of years, I was averaging 8 1/2  feet and making 90% of putts inside 9 feet. This goes a  long way to lowering a handicap.

 

a full swing is club head behind your head,

3/4 swing is ear high to ear high.

1/2 swing is waist high to waist high,

1/4 swing is knee high to knee high.

 

Club--Full--3/4--1/2--1/4

 PW   125  100  70   40

 GW   110   85   60   30

 SW    90    75   45   25

 LW     80   70   30   20

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:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

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I know you are not asking me that, but using the method below, I averaged 12 feet from the pin today for the 13 times I was inside 100 yards. Two more times I was within 2 feet of the hole. For example on 12 I was 93 yards from the flag so based on the 52* 3/4 shot going 85 I added a bit to it, bringing the club not ear high but above the ear and below the top of the head. it landed right next to the flag about 3 feet and ran to about 12.

 

Before I took off for a couple of years, I was averaging 8 1/2 feet and making 90% of putts inside 9 feet. This goes a long way to lowering a handicap.

I pretty much use this method sans lob wedge. I just can't hit it consistently enough to justify using it. I only use it for sand or big flops. Do you have any advice to hit it more consistently? My other wedges are the best part of my game.

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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I have the following:

 

PW 44*......100

GW 49*.......90

SW 54*........80

LW 58*.........70

 

 

 

 

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Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder

 

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I pretty much use this method sans lob wedge. I just can't hit it consistently enough to justify using it. I only use it for sand or big flops. Do you have any advice to hit it more consistently? My other wedges are the best part of my game.

 

It depends totally on your swing. Flipping with the hands is a killer. I sometimes use the baseball grip to keep from flipping with the hands. But the lob wedge does not have to be hit any differently than other wedges. It is just in your head that you have to hit it differently.

 

Before my sabbatical, I had a Steve Stricker like wedge swing, very little wrist cock but would picture striking a match with the bounce directly under the ball, or cutting the legs off of the ball. This ball would hop and stop. It was dependent on the lie.

 

Now I have more of a square to square swing and hit down on the ball, even with the 60. The ball tends to run out more but still has quite a bit of spin. I have more accuracy as far as direction goes and unless I have no green to work with it works fine.

 

I do, and did today on the 8th hole, revert back to the bounce under the ball swing when I need the hop and stop, but tend to pull this shot left more often than the other.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

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Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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It depends totally on your swing. Flipping with the hands is a killer. I sometimes use the baseball grip to keep from flipping with the hands. But the lob wedge does not have to be hit any differently than other wedges. It is just in your head that you have to hit it differently.

 

Before my sabbatical, I had a Steve Stricker like wedge swing, very little wrist cock but would picture striking a match with the bounce directly under the ball, or cutting the legs off of the ball. This ball would hop and stop. It was dependent on the lie.

 

Now I have more of a square to square swing and hit down on the ball, even with the 60. The ball tends to run out more but still has quite a bit of spin. I have more accuracy as far as direction goes and unless I have no green to work with it works fine.

 

I do, and did today on the 8th hole, revert back to the bounce under the ball swing when I need the hop and stop, but tend to pull this shot left more often than the other.

Thank you for the advice. I think it might be in my head that I have to hit it differently. I will try to make a swing more like my other wedges.

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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There are two other things you can do on partial shots that we have not even discussed here. You can take about 3-4 yards off each club by opening your stance up. This will in essence shorten your backswing. You can also take 3-4 yards off by choking down on the wedge to the end of the grip.

 

That means that you can choke down and open your stance and take 6-8 yards off your distance with the same swings. That changes known distance from 4 swings with 4 club from 16 basically 10-12 yards apart to 4 swings, 4 clubs, 2 grip locations, and 2 stances to 64 distances 3-4 yards apart.

 

I will never forget Phil Michelson in a post round interview when asked about a hole out saying one time, "I knew that if I choked down on it 3/8 of an inch and opened my stance slightly it would be the perfect distance."

 

Of course, he has a caddie and a yardage book and probably a list and this is all he has done for 40 years.

 

I rarely think about this and chose to go slightly more or less with the overall swing, but did attempt this twice today. Once it worked perfectly, although no hole out, so not "perfectly" and once it was 6" short and hit the fringe vs the green and checked up rather than roll where I wanted it.

 

These are just options to keep in mind when you are between yardages.

 

Our pin placer was enamored with the front corners today. This made pitching a chore.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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Pitching Wedge - 47* - 142 yds

Gap Wedge - 50* - 125 yds

Sand Wedge - 54* - 106 yds

Lob Wedge - 58* - 79 yds

 

Yardages are from Arccos, which is why they're so precise. These are all full-swing yardages. I can hit the LW more than 80 yards, but it gets squirrelly, so I don't try to.

 

I have a half swing that I use to get in-between yardages. A half 8 is 130ish, a half 9 is 110ish, and a half PW is 90ish. I like the idea behind the Pelz system, but I just don't have the practice time to groove four swings with each club. But even having a second swing that you can count on is a huge help. It's like having 18 clubs in your bag.

 

Like Rover Rick, I don't recommend trying to overpower a wedge. It will spin too much and balloon on you.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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Now the dilemma...Also yesterday, I received an announcement from MGS that I had somehow won a custom wedge from Fourteen Golf! Great! Now what? :unsure: So I'm actually thinking to have that club lofted at 60* and have it as my optional "4th wedge" going forward. If I carry it, I'd probably ditch either my 3W or 5W, so we'll see...

Dude, that is totally going to jack up the fung shui of your signature.

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:adams-small: Adams XTD Ti 18 deg 3Hy

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan PTx 22-46 

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan TK15 50, 54, 58 deg wedges

:cameron-small: Futura 5.5

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Pitching Wedge - 47* - 142 yds

Gap Wedge - 50* - 125 yds

Sand Wedge - 54* - 106 yds

Lob Wedge - 58* - 79 yds

 

Yardages are from Arccos, which is why they're so precise. These are all full-swing yardages. I can hit the LW more than 80 yards, but it gets squirrelly, so I don't try to.

 

I have a half swing that I use to get in-between yardages. A half 8 is 130ish, a half 9 is 110ish, and a half PW is 90ish. I like the idea behind the Pelz system, but I just don't have the practice time to groove four swings with each club. But even having a second swing that you can count on is a huge help. It's like having 18 clubs in your bag.

 

Like Rover Rick, I don't recommend trying to overpower a wedge. It will spin too much and balloon on you.

 

I don't really think about it as groove 4 swings with each club. It's really just 4 swings, and then do it sometime with each club to determine the distance for each club. Since the swing is really the same as the full swing, as far as acceleration goes, you just stop your backswing at these points and go from there.

 

But I really don't know the knee high swing distances anymore. I do the other 3 but knee high not so much.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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Dude, that is totally going to jack up the fung shui of your signature.

Yeah, I'm sure he would use a :ping-small:  PONG ball if he could get the distance.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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I don't really think about it as groove 4 swings with each club. It's really just 4 swings, and then do it sometime with each club to determine the distance for each club. Since the swing is really the same as the full swing, as far as acceleration goes, you just stop your backswing at these points and go from there.

 

But I really don't know the knee high swing distances anymore. I do the other 3 but knee high not so much.

Would it help to have One length clubs so you don't need 16 swings for different lengths and swing heights? Would it helps for each swing to be the same?

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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Would it help to have One length clubs so you don't need 16 swings for different lengths and swing heights? Would it helps for each swing to be the same?

 

The swings are the same, the rate of acceleration is the same, the length of the backswing is shorter, and thus the clubhead speed at impact is reduced because you have not built up as much speed with the shorter backswing. These are termed as different swings, but the only difference is the length of the swing.

 

The purpose of the One Length club is so that set up is the same and no variance in ball position.

 

I am not a believer in One Length clubs as a good thing because the wedges are so long among other reasons. But that's a different thread, and I know my experiment with them failed miserably.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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The swings are the same, the rate of acceleration is the same, the length of the backswing is shorter, and thus the clubhead speed at impact is reduced because you have not built up as much speed with the shorter backswing. These are termed as different swings, but the only difference is the length of the swing.

 

The purpose of the One Length club is so that set up is the same and no variance in ball position.

 

I am not a believer in One Length clubs as a good thing because the wedges are so long among other reasons. But that's a different thread, and I know my experiment with them failed miserably.

Okay, thank you for all of the great information(and for putting up with the endless badgering). I don't care for One length clubs myself but was just wondering if those would help with this.

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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Would it help to have One length clubs so you don't need 16 swings for different lengths and swing heights? Would it helps for each swing to be the same?

It isn't 16 swings.  It is only 4 swings.  Aren't all the wedges usually almost the same length anyways? 

 

If you get this down with one club, it doesn't take much to get it clicking for other clubs.  I explained in another similar thread yesterday that I made a chart like RoverRick that goes up to my 4 iron.  I haven't practiced any of these partial swings with most of my irons, but I have gotten some punches from under trees pretty darn close by just referring to the chart quickly before the shot.  As I play more, I learn more.  I had a 3/4 8 iron a month or so ago to hit some mid-gap distance and I executed it well, but didn't factor in that I was hitting downhill, so it went several yards long.  Now that shot haunts me and I won't make the same mistake again.

 

I think to really nail this, some accurate stepping in an open field or a rangefinder getting exact distances is necessary.  Pelz talked about either his son or Tom Kite's son out in the field with a baseball glove calling out the exact yardage on a walkie talkie.  Both Pelz and Tom could call the yardage of the shot out within a yard by seeing the length of backswing after hitting so many balls

:ping-small: G400 LST 8.5 Ping Tour 65 Stiff

:adams-small: Adams XTD Ti 18 deg 3Hy

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan PTx 22-46 

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan TK15 50, 54, 58 deg wedges

:cameron-small: Futura 5.5

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It isn't 16 swings. It is only 4 swings. Aren't all the wedges usually almost the same length anyways?

 

If you get this down with one club, it doesn't take much to get it clicking for other clubs. I explained in another similar thread yesterday that I made a chart like RoverRick that goes up to my 4 iron. I haven't practiced any of these partial swings with most of my irons, but I have gotten some punches from under trees pretty darn close by just referring to the chart quickly before the shot. As I play more, I learn more. I had a 3/4 8 iron a month or so ago to hit some mid-gap distance and I executed it well, but didn't factor in that I was hitting downhill, so it went several yards long. Now that shot haunts me and I won't make the same mistake again.

 

I think to really nail this, some accurate stepping in an open field or a rangefinder getting exact distances is necessary. Pelz talked about either his son or Tom Kite's son out in the field with a baseball glove calling out the exact yardage on a walkie talkie. Both Pelz and Tom could call the yardage of the shot out within a yard by seeing the length of backswing after hitting so many balls

Yes. All wedges are usually the same length or within a 1/2 inch.

 

I am a big user of the 3/4 shot on approaches and par 3's inside 140 yards. My PW is like 126ish meaning 122-130 but a 3/4 8 is 125 period. The GW can be 115 but the 3/4 9 IS 115. Although I was only healthy for 5 golf days after 15 months no golf. So distances on full shots are spotty.

 

I got word today that the Precision Pro NX7 PRO is in the mail so it may be here tomorrow. If so I will be out tomorrow night dialing getting my distances down. I have lost some of my estimating distance prowess. I can't tell you how many times these last couple of weeks I have judged it to be x yards away and hit that shot and felt it was perfect only to be 10 yards short or long. Then I reestimate and realize I hit it x yards, but it was z yards away.

 

So not only do you have to hit the shot you have to know the actual yards also.

 

 

 

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:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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Okay, thank you for all of the great information(and for putting up with the endless badgering). I don't care for One length clubs myself but was just wondering if those would help with this.

Your welcome and these discussions help me also. I can't tell you all the times I have been in a situation on the course and harken back to something I read or said here and it's helped me.

 

This week after a ball position discussion I moved closer with my iron address and suddenly cured my hook I developed.

 

 

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:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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I carry 5 - PW (44), 48,52,56,60. The 60 is indispensable on the course I play and even more so this time of year with the thick rough.

 

I suppose it really matters what the conditions are at the course you normally play. Current wisdom says carry more wedges and drop something up top.

 

There's logic to that too. Touring pros don't hit 50 percent of their greens from over 200 yards. For most amateurs its around 10 percent. It's okay to have a larger gap at that end of the bag.

 

If you get a more lofted wedge be sure to practice with it. Also be mindful of its bounce - if your 56 is high bounce go low bounce with the 60. Better still consider Hogan wedges, that way you have three different bounces on each wedge. :)

 

Good luck

 

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Don't carry a 60, but a 58 PM Grind Callaway. Usually inside 60 yds, green side and flops. Like the higher bounce 56/13 PM grind in bunkers and 70-80 yds and a pair of Mizuno T7s (46 and 50) further out just because they stop so well.  

:mizuno-small: ST 190

:mizuno-small: ST 190 TS

:titelist-small: 816 17 deg

 :mizuno-small: CLK 20 deg

  :mizuno-small: MP 20 4-PW

 :bettinardi-1: Wedges 51  57

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