Golf Statistics

[cnosil]

Read some interesting statistics today. I know statistics lie, but found them interesting none the less. We put way too much pressure on ourselves for what we consider poor performance.

 

Average PGA tour player hits the fairway 60% of the time

PGA tour make percent for 7 foot putt: 60%

 

50% make distance by handicap

Tour pro make 50% at 8ft

Scratch player 50% at 6ft

18 hcp. 50% at 5ft

 

Best GIR average for season: Tiger in 2000-2001 at 13.2. Typical average 12.

[null]

That's why it always cracks me up when internet golfers talk about hitting 75% of their fairways and greens.

 

I don't think a lot of amateur golfers have a realistic baseline for what they should be achieving.

[Shankster]

I know I have my expectations set way too high.

 

I expect to make all the putts and hit all the FIR and GIR.

 

Yeah, way too high.

[null]

I know I have my expectations set way too high.

 

I expect to make all the putts and hit all the FIR and GIR.

 

Yeah, way too high.

 

Shanks - you mentioned on another thread that if you don't do well on the first hole, you stop keeping score and turn the round into a practice round.  Perhaps a different approach could be to keep playing your game and challenge yourself to bounce back.  You obviously have a lot of competitive spirit in you, so why not try to bounce back from adversity and attempt to turn things around?

[yungkory]

That's why it always cracks me up when internet golfers talk about hitting 75% of their fairways and greens.

 

I don't think a lot of amateur golfers have a realistic baseline for what they should be achieving.

 

This was one thing I noticed playing with my buddy who is a scratch golfer and former state HS champ. We're about the same distance off the tee, and hit roughly the same amount of fairways, but the difference in our scores is because he has the skill/ability to scramble to save par more often than me.

[Shankster]

Shanks - you mentioned on another thread that if you don't do well on the first hole, you stop keeping score and turn the round into a practice round. Perhaps a different approach could be to keep playing your game and challenge yourself to bounce back. You obviously have a lot of competitive spirit in you, so why not try to bounce back from adversity and attempt to turn things around?

Probably should. I have in the past, and followed up with anything from another double to an eagle on the same course.

 

I think it is the whole I've played this course XXX times why the hell cant I get it right?

 

Might need a change of scenery to pull everything back in and get my focus back. It really gets boring playing the same dang place over and over. But the rest of the courses here are farmers fields or too much $ to play regularly, or packed.

 

I do have plans to start playing the course that the tournament I'm playing in on Aug 3-4. Two day single stroke play. Should be fun. But might be too late to get a gel for the course.

 

This is all pending work schedule, I haven't 100% committed to it yet.

[Shankster]

Like today, we have 15+ mph winds out of the SSW... the course would be a bear, even though it is protected with a lot of trees. Most holes would play into or cross wind. All but 1 on the front 9, and 2 on the back. Turn the 6300 into 7800 quickly, but I'd enjoy it, just don't have the time today to play. Getting out tomorrow with the Boss (need that hat) to play a course neither of us have played. 4 some with 1 guy I don't know, and another guy from work. Might be fun.

[revkev]

Great topic - we've visited this before but it's been a while.

 

Managing expectations is a huge part of golf - it helps control the emotions if you are lipping out 10 footers so long as you realize that you only actually had a 20 percent chance to make it in the first place.

 

I was going to make a comment about stats based on the Accos blog post from this day.

 

Fairways hit remain the most over rated statistic of all. Distance trumps fairways hit. A far more accurate statistic for tee ball effectiveness is penalty avoidance. Mind you penalty, for the purpose of this stat, could mean in the trees or fairway bunker.

 

 

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[DaveP043]

This was one thing I noticed playing with my buddy who is a scratch golfer and former state HS champ. We're about the same distance off the tee, and hit roughly the same amount of fairways, but the difference in our scores is because he has the skill/ability to scramble to save par more often than me.

While its possible, this runs against the normal statistics.  Generally, about 2/3 of the difference between two players comes from full swing stuff, driving distance and accuracy, iron consistency in both direction and distance, GIR, proximity to the pin.  About 1/3 is typically short game stuff.  Of course the Full swing parts tend to produce closer "misses" for the low-handicapper, which will also bolster short game stats. Full swing improvements produce better proximity on greens hit, leading to fewer 3-putts and more 1-putts.  I'd bet your buddy hits more greens than you, and gets closer when he misses greens.  

[null]

This was one thing I noticed playing with my buddy who is a scratch golfer and former state HS champ. We're about the same distance off the tee, and hit roughly the same amount of fairways, but the difference in our scores is because he has the skill/ability to scramble to save par more often than me.

 

 

Bingo - same experience when I play with my brother in law, who used to be an assistant pro.

[THEZIPR23]

Great topic - we've visited this before but it's been a while.

 

Managing expectations is a huge part of golf - it helps control the emotions if you are lipping out 10 footers so long as you realize that you only actually had a 20 percent chance to make it in the first place.

 

I was going to make a comment about stats based on the Accos blog post from this day.

 

Fairways hit remain the most over rated statistic of all. Distance trumps fairways hit. A far more accurate statistic for tee ball effectiveness is penalty avoidance. Mind you penalty, for the purpose of this stat, could mean in the trees or fairway bunker.

 

 

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Distance trumps fairways hit only when course conditions allow it. Have played many courses/tournaments where 40 yards from green in the rough and you couldn't hit/hold green. Much better off 150 out in fairway. Statistics are wonderful and a curse all at the same time. I hit 52.5% of greens and 53.5% of fairways and putt as a +4.6 according to my Arccos data so based on that if I hit 2 more greens a round and 1 more fairway my stats would fall in line with the average PGA tour player.

 

 

(Full Disclosure, I know I am no where near a tour player and am not stating that. Just pointing out that stats only tell part of the story.)

[Mr. 82]

This was one thing I noticed playing with my buddy who is a scratch golfer and former state HS champ. We're about the same distance off the tee, and hit roughly the same amount of fairways, but the difference in our scores is because he has the skill/ability to scramble to save par more often than me.

I'm currently a 4 handicap and hit 8 of 14 fairways to as well as 13 of 18 GIR today. Walked away with 74. A lot of guys would take that score, but the one thing I take away from this round were the two 3 putts on 2 of the last 3 holes. And these were putts inside of 15 feet both times for birdie. I'll tell you that my approach shots were lights out today as I was hitting 4 and 5 iron to within 15 feet all day long.

 

All that said, my normal round was more like yesterday where I missed a bunch of greens and found myself chipping on for birdie and hoping to be within 3 feet for a par putt. Anyone playing this game that wants to get good should treat your chip shot on a missed GIR as your first putt. The pros are constantly trying to make their chip shots and a lot of times pull it off. But they aren't “hoping” to make the chip, they are expecting it to go in.

 

As a 4 handicap I have an expectation of putting that chip to within 3 feet and getting up and down for par. When I was an 8 handicap my chipping was average and if I missed a green I usually walked off with bogey.

 

To get to scratch I know I can't expect my GIR average to increase, but I do expect my scrambling for par to greatly improve. That's where you will start scoring better.

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

We ought to celebrate our success more also... recently read the Sieckman book and he made a point about this.

Golf is as much art as it is science and when you paint a masterpiece smile and be proud.

 

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[silver & black]

That's why it always cracks me up when internet golfers talk about hitting 75% of their fairways and greens.

 

I don't think a lot of amateur golfers have a realistic baseline for what they should be achieving.

I hear ya. I freely admit that I "might" hit 5 fairways, and about the same for greens, in 18 holes. More fairways if I count the next hole over.

[TR1PTIK]

Read some interesting statistics today. I know statistics lie, but found them interesting none the less. We put way too much pressure on ourselves for what we consider poor performance.

 

Average PGA tour player hits the fairway 60% of the time

PGA tour make percent for 7 foot putt: 60%

 

50% make distance by handicap

Tour pro make 50% at 8ft

Scratch player 50% at 6ft

18 hcp. 50% at 5ft

 

Best GIR average for season: Tiger in 2000-2001 at 13.2. Typical average 12.

 

Listened to the Golf Science Lab podcast on my way into work tonight and they were discussing golfer consistency - though really it was more about golfer expectations - and basically mentioned the same things. Golf seems like a simple game, but the golf swing is complex and we should apply some rationale to our mental game. If the pros only average 60% fairways, we should be grateful anytime we find 30% (and so on with the rest of the stats).

[Kenny B]

Statistics are very misleading.  When pros hit driver, they hit 60% of fairways... but their average drives are 300 yards more or less.  The further you hit the ball, the more chance you have of missing a fairway.  When I only hit 60% of fairways, I will typically shoot in mid-80's.  I'm a fairly straight driver, but I have to be to produce my best scores.  My drives only go 200-230, but I can hit 11 out of 13 fairways at my course.  Many rounds I hit every one.  It's not that difficult for me, but I'm not bragging.  I would gladly give up a few fairways hit if I could gain another 20-30 yards.

 

As for the putting stats, those too are misleading.  The putts that an 18 hcp make 50% of the time are not on greens similar to those played by pros.  I've putted on greens at Torrey Pines just before the U.S Open in 2008 when Tiger beat Rocco.  I consider myself a decent putter; I typically have 29-31 putts per round at my course.  However, I can easily 3 or 4 putt the greens at Torrey.

[cnosil]

Statistics are very misleading. When pros hit driver, they hit 60% of fairways... but their average drives are 300 yards more or less. The further you hit the ball, the more chance you have of missing a fairway. When I only hit 60% of fairways, I will typically shoot in mid-80's. I'm a fairly straight driver, but I have to be to produce my best scores. My drives only go 200-230, but I can hit 11 out of 13 fairways at my course. Many rounds I hit every one. It's not that difficult for me, but I'm not bragging. I would gladly give up a few fairways hit if I could gain another 20-30 yards.

 

As for the putting stats, those too are misleading. The putts that an 18 hcp make 50% of the time are not on greens similar to those played by pros. I've putted on greens at Torrey Pines just before the U.S Open in 2008 when Tiger beat Rocco. I consider myself a decent putter; I typically have 29-31 putts per round at my course. However, I can easily 3 or 4 putt the greens at Torrey.

I did say that statistics lie in my post. However, as others

 

One of the things that separates the putting statistics for players is greens. PGA pros play on essentially the same speed greens every week. We play in greens that are not consistently the same speed. If you played on greens the same speed as Torrey every day you would approach your normal statistics. This is actually one of the reasons given for why LPGA players are statistically worse putters than their male counterparts; the conditions from week to week vary.

 

As others have mentioned amateurs have unrealistic expectations for their games. Some players will be better than those averages and some will be worse.

[DaveP043]

Another thing to consider when looking at our own games: for most full shots, your margin for error is in the range of 2 to 3 degrees.  To hit a fairway, your drive has only about 2 degrees leeway each direction from center.  Same when hitting to a green, plus or minus 2 to 3 degrees.  That's pretty tight, so when we manage to do that, we should be pretty dang happy.

[StrokerAce]

I'd be curious to see a comparison of performance from the rough to average score.  

 

If we're hitting a minor number of fairways then the ability to get out of the rough and onto the green in regulation would seem to correlate closely to potential to score low.

[MaxEntropy]

I don't hit a lot of fairways (~40% on a good day). In my mind, a "good" driving day is when my misses are still playable and there is at least a chance at a GIR.

[cnosil]

I'd be curious to see a comparison of performance from the rough to average score.

 

If we're hitting a minor number of fairways then the ability to get out of the rough and onto the green in regulation would seem to correlate closely to potential to score low.

Maybe Arccos will release those kind of numbers based on performance numbers they have.

[palvord]

Managing expectations is incredibly important when it comes to golf. Sometimes we just flat out have a talent cap and no matter how hard we work, cannot perform like a PGA Pro or a scratch golfer. Understanding your skill level, and then trying to be the best version of that is going to help enjoyment of the game.

 

Also, golf provides us mere mortals a way to play with more talented players with the handicap system.

 

As to stats, they help paint the picture that golf is a game of minimizing failure and maximizing success. There are times on the course where you can flat out full swing, and there are other times we need to swallow or pride and lay up to a better position.

 

 

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[HeathS16]

I don't hit a lot of fairways (~40% on a good day). In my mind, a "good" driving day is when my misses are still playable and there is at least a chance at a GIR.

^^^^^^ this is my outlook as well^^^^

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

That's why it always cracks me up when internet golfers talk about hitting 75% of their fairways and greens.

 

I don't think a lot of amateur golfers have a realistic baseline for what they should be achieving.

I routinely hit 11-12 out of 14 fairways that's about roughly 80% of the time. My problem is that my GIR is not even close. Probably 5 per round which is roughly 25%. I don't generally 3 putt a lot though on occasion. I would say that those averages for the pros vs us are pretty close to reality on the overall, some people will be better in some areas and some in other areas, but what set the pros and scratches apart is the consistency at which the perform for all phases. I can hit fairway but not greens, I can putt decently. I am a 5 Hcp. The pros hit fairways, greens and putt well.

[JohnSmalls]

I routinely hit 11-12 out of 14 fairways that's about roughly 80% of the time. My problem is that my GIR is not even close. Probably 5 per round which is roughly 25%. I don't generally 3 putt a lot though on occasion. I would say that those averages for the pros vs us are pretty close to reality on the overall, some people will be better in some areas and some in other areas, but what set the pros and scratches apart is the consistency at which the perform for all phases. I can hit fairway but not greens, I can putt decently. I am a 5 Hcp. The pros hit fairways, greens and putt well.

 

To add to your post, I think another way that makes the pros stand out is that when they miss, they generally end up in good spots.  Whereas us mortals tend to miss in spots that cost us more than a stroke.  

[TSauer]

To add to your post, I think another way that makes the pros stand out is that when they miss, they generally end up in good spots. Whereas us mortals tend to miss in spots that cost us more than a stroke.

Or.. they miss terribly and somehow pull out a miracle and get up and down for par. Whereas for me, it would be a triple bogey.

[JohnSmalls]

Or.. they miss terribly and somehow pull out a miracle and get up and down for par. Whereas for me, it would be a triple bogey.

Likewise.  Doubles and triples for days  

[GB13]

I hit it about 270 and hit 30% of fairways and hit about 8 GIR on a good day. My biggest problem is when I miss a green it is usually a double or a triple.

[revkev]

I'd be curious to see a comparison of performance from the rough to average score.

 

If we're hitting a minor number of fairways then the ability to get out of the rough and onto the green in regulation would seem to correlate closely to potential to score low.

We have that recent blog post with arccos stats showing their players are more accurate with the 4 iron off the tee yet longer with the 4 hybrid. Very telling is the fact that the average score is lower with the hybrid.

 

Fairways hit is the one stat that I can and do out perform touring pros on - mainly because I'm so much shorter that my off line shots stay in the short stuff - I average a shade under 75 percent on fairways hit and more importantly take very few penalties off the tee.

 

Of those two the lack of penalties is far more important - the longer a person can hit it while avoiding penalties (those include in the trees, fairway traps, unplayable rough besides OB and water) the better chance he has of shooting a lower score. Shorter iron in equals closer proximity to the hole equals fewer putts equals lower scores.

 

Fairways hit as a statistic are the lie that CSnoil spoke to earlier. There is very little correlation to that number and overall score beyond the fact that you normally don't take a penalty by hitting a fairway (you could however by my definition - you could be in the fairway but blocked by a tree)

 

 

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[zkshelley]

And remember, any pro stats are with narrow fairways and the golfers are having to hit further into that narrower fairway. That's a stat we mortals should be able to realistically go after on our regular courses.

 

GIR and putting is another story. Although slower, less complicated greens are certainly in our advantage