Speaking of fitting (or fitting gone wrong)

[Kanoito]

I've been playing my irons for about 2 seasons and had some shop credit left, so I decided to have a loft/lie check and bend them in case my swing had changed in the past 2 years.

 

Did the fitting with Trackman, impact tape, lie board, etc... all good... each club was recorded individually with distances, measured the lofts to get rid of the gaps, you know the drill...

 

I end up with 2* upright irons. So I left my irons there and told them I needed them by Saturday for a tournament.

 

Comes Saturday, I'm all fired up... stripe the first drive down the middle... going well... my approach with a 9i BAM! It goes way right... I look at the club face and you see the grass mark on the toe... I shake it off thinking... alright, no problem, maybe I just mishit it, I'm not a pro you know... 

 

I get up and down and move on to the next hole... a 180 yard elevated Par 3. I grab my 6i and BAM! Right it goes with the same fucking ball mark on the toe!

 

Could it be my swing? Hmmm... OK next hole... Par 5, long drive sailing with the wind... I think to myself... let's give the 3W a try... BAM... about 240 including roll, between 2 bunkers onto the green. Eagle putt... of course I missed it...

 

So, driver is working fine, 3W was fine, too... so WTF is wrong with my irons?

 

Repeat for 15 more holes and that was my round... shot a 98...

 

Now, feeling completely desperate and doubting myself... I went back to the proshop and asked the guy... could it be possible (no matter how small the chances) that you guys bent the irons the wrong way??? I'm not a low 'capper, but I definitely know when I'm swining well and all iron shots were on the toe, a little fat... I never take divots... I have problems with hitting them thin...

 

The guy tells me no way... they wouldn't make a mistake like that, but just to be safe, let's get on the monitor... same thing happens... impact tape all on the toe and all balls flying right... lie board marks all shots on the toe as well.

 

Well??? I asked the guy... he thinks for a second and take my 7i and measures it on his Mitchell machine... 10 mins later he comes back and tells me the irons are 2* flat...

 

WHAT??? You guys fitted me for 2* up, why are they flat???

 

It seems like the fitter mistakenly wrote -2* instead of +2*

 

Considering I shot a 98 with irons 4* off spec... not too shabby!

 

They reworked the irons and now they are supposed to be 2* up. I'll go over there tonight and hit on Trackman to make sure. Have another tournament tomorrow.

 

Question time:

 

1. Is there a limited amount of times you can bend an iron? Just curious... if you take a metal rod and bend it back and forth, eventually it's going to break...

 

2. Just went to get my SM7 wedge fitting last week as well and ended up with standard lie. Is it normal for wedges to be flatter than irons?

[revkev]

I didn't hit like for obvious reasons. So sorry to hear about this.

 

I don't think there's a time limit to bending - I know that I had my Eye 2 wedge adjusted both for lie and loft a couple of times during its career.

 

There's always a small risk involved with each adjustment.

 

In regards to the wedge each OEM is different. It's entirely possible for one's “standard” to be another's 2 up. But yes too I do know some guys who play their wedges to different specs than the rest of their set.

 

I hope the shop is able to successfully make good on their error for you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[TR1PTIK]

Here's a quote from an article Bobby Clampett wrote on GolfWRX about club fitting that seems relevant:

 

"If the lie of the club is upright, more “hook” is built into the club through the principle that “loft is hook.” Additionally, the more the available “loft” of the club, the more the upright angle increases hook. So a set of clubs built 8 degrees upright has a very different directional profile with the 4-iron than with the wedge. This is a fact a well trained and experienced club fitter will take into consideration and properly apply."

 

He also goes on to describe the reason for  your miss  which was caused by the incorrect lie angle.(although his example uses someone who has a club that is bent too upright and therefore is digging the heel into the ground). 

 

To summarize, if you run into that problem again you'll know the reason for it. Also, wedges adjusted to a flatter lie angle is entirely acceptable and within reason. 

[gaussman1]

Here's a quote from an article Bobby Clampett wrote on GolfWRX about club fitting that seems relevant:

 

"If the lie of the club is upright, more “hook” is built into the club through the principle that “loft is hook.” Additionally, the more the available “loft” of the club, the more the upright angle increases hook. So a set of clubs built 8 degrees upright has a very different directional profile with the 4-iron than with the wedge. This is a fact a well trained and experienced club fitter will take into consideration and properly apply."

 

He also goes on to describe the reason for your miss which was caused by the incorrect lie angle.(although his example uses someone who has a club that is bent too upright and therefore is digging the heel into the ground).

 

To summarize, if you run into that problem again you'll know the reason for it. Also, wedges adjusted to a flatter lie angle is entirely acceptable and within reason.

I read that and laughed at the "loft is hook comment". Loft is loft. If anything, lie angle is hook if we're going to oversimplify. His overall point seems to be a fairly old anti-fit argument- that fitting to maximize a bad swing isn't as good as correcting a bad swing. He isn't wrong of course, but seriously misguided. Players would correct their flaws if they had the lesson money, time, energy and ability to do so. But most of us just are what we are. What's wrong w trying to play equipment that makes the most of that?

[Shankster]

I read that article too. If I was to guess I bet he means people will have a bigger miss with a lower loft club.

 

Most everyone hits their 8, 9, W's fairly straight and accurate. But you start getting in the 7 and up, the direction that the loft is pointing due to lie angle is more prominent.

 

I could be miss interpreting it, but that's what I read.

 

If you have a 25° iron that is 2° upright most likely it will be closed slightly? On the flip side a 2° flat iron would be one slightly?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is just me scratching my head.

 

** for a person who needs standard lie as the example.

[null]

Shanks - upright does not mean closed in the normal way of talking about a closed club face. If a club had zero loft and you put it upright it wouldn't change anything.

 

However, when you take something with loft and toe it up, you're actually making the striking surface (face) then point slightly left even though the sole is still square to your target line.

[null]

This article/video does a great fantastic job of explaining the D plane and clubs with more loft (and thus more spin loft) have a lower propensity to slice or draw.

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/understanding-d-plane-james-leitz/

[gaussman1]

I read that article too. If I was to guess I bet he means people will have a bigger miss with a lower loft club.

 

Most everyone hits their 8, 9, W's fairly straight and accurate. But you start getting in the 7 and up, the direction that the loft is pointing due to lie angle is more prominent.

 

I could be miss interpreting it, but that's what I read.

 

If you have a 25° iron that is 2° upright most likely it will be closed slightly? On the flip side a 2° flat iron would be one slightly?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is just me scratching my head.

 

** for a person who needs standard lie as the example.

If we presume that the player returns the club to impact in a fairly neutral lie then making the club more upright or more flat will have the face pointing slightly left or right at impact based on the lie being slightly misfit for that delivery.

That's why you can help a player who is face open by wrenching the club more upright- you're helping to counterbalance their tendencies and get the face pointing more at the target.

As a bit of a shut face player, I am always better off 1 degree flat. Even though I don't deliver the club flat that lie angle fights my tendencies to have the face closed at impact

[Shankster]

Shanks - upright does not mean closed in the normal way of talking about a closed club face. If a club had zero loft and you put it upright it wouldn't change anything.

 

However, when you take something with loft and toe it up, you're actually making the striking surface (face) then point slightly left even though the sole is still square to your target line.

Yeah I meant at impact should have specified.

 

My dad sets his irons down with a ton of daylight under the toe (if I did that I would hit the first tree on the left). He was fit for his PING's a decade or so ago. His swing must steepen because they generally go straight.

 

*I'm not trying to confuse anyone, so just skip my ramble here.*

[Kanoito]

I didn't hit like for obvious reasons. So sorry to hear about this.

 

I don't think there's a time limit to bending - I know that I had my Eye 2 wedge adjusted both for lie and loft a couple of times during its career.

 

There's always a small risk involved with each adjustment.

 

In regards to the wedge each OEM is different. It's entirely possible for one's “standard” to be another's 2 up. But yes too I do know some guys who play their wedges to different specs than the rest of their set.

 

I hope the shop is able to successfully make good on their error for you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Thanks Rev!

You are right. CF16 PW is speced at 35.75" and 63.50* lie

Vokey SM7 at 35.50" and 64* lie.

 

So by adding 2* to the irons, I would only be 1.5* flatter with the wedges. I've read a lot of people play their wedges about 1* flatter, since you don't usually take full swings (except maybe gap wedge)

 

I checked with my wedge fitter and he said he would keep me standard in the wedges. Can't wait for them to arrive!

[Shankster]

If we presume that the player returns the club to impact in a fairly neutral lie then making the club more upright or more flat will have the face pointing slightly left or right at impact based on the lie being slightly misfit for that delivery.

That's why you can help a player who is face open by wrenching the club more upright- you're helping to counterbalance their tendencies and get the face pointing more at the target.

As a bit of a shut face player, I am always better off 1 degree flat. Even though I don't deliver the club flat that lie angle fights my tendencies to have the face closed at impact

So, question number 189,374,631

 

Would a shaft with a different bend profile, weight, or flex change this at all?

[null]

So, question number 189,374,631

 

Would a shaft with a different bend profile, weight, or flex change this at all?

It could. More downward deflection would cause more toe droop and thus require more upright lie angle or different shaft

[Shankster]

It could. More downward deflection would cause more toe droop and thus require more upright lie angle or different shaft

X7's it is then, I'm kidding. I am guessing a higher Bend point and stiffer flex would potentially limit the deflection?

 

Like swinging an oak tree for example, that isn't going to bend much.

[null]

X7's it is then, I'm kidding. I am guessing a higher Bend point and stiffer flex would potentially limit the deflection?

 

Like swinging an oak tree for example, that isn't going to bend much.

 

Potentially.  All depends on how you load the shaft and your transition.

[PlaidJacket]

Here's a quote from an article Bobby Clampett wrote on GolfWRX about club fitting that seems relevant:

 

"If the lie of the club is upright, more “hook” is built into the club through the principle that “loft is hook.” Additionally, the more the available “loft” of the club, the more the upright angle increases hook. So a set of clubs built 8 degrees upright has a very different directional profile with the 4-iron than with the wedge. This is a fact a well trained and experienced club fitter will take into consideration and properly apply."

 

He also goes on to describe the reason for  your miss  which was caused by the incorrect lie angle.(although his example uses someone who has a club that is bent too upright and therefore is digging the heel into the ground). 

 

To summarize, if you run into that problem again you'll know the reason for it. Also, wedges adjusted to a flatter lie angle is entirely acceptable and within reason. 

I read the same article over on GolfWRX also and thought it was pretty good too. Like any golf site they post some stuff that's good and other times not so much. It's good I think to browse around and see what's going on out there. No one place has it all. Diversity in knowledge is a good thing IMO.

[gaussman1]

So, question number 189,374,631

 

Would a shaft with a different bend profile, weight, or flex change this at all?

I have no idea lol. It seems like it shouldn't matter for lie angle but obviously if something is way too soft it will be releasing all over the place

[Rtracymog]

The Clampett article is a complete joke, especially the first part.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[McGolf]

TO answer the question, yes there is a limited number of back and forth adjustments you can make.

Just keep an eye on the hosel for deterioration