What's The Problem?

[Kenny B]

I think people have a natural tempo with irons and and with the short game.   Your tempo will be a factor in how long of a stroke you need to make for putts.   My tempo is slower and I putt better with a slow tempo (longer stroke).  My problem with this is that I leave a bunch short.   I can speed up my tempo and get more ball speed, but I lose my distance control.   It does take a lot of practice and generally the short game is the first to go. 

I try to not have a long stroke.  Obviously, on long putts I take it back further.  The longer my stroke, the more chance I have of mis-hits; remember, I'm not looking at the ball.  I'm use a short backstroke with acceleration.

[cnosil]

I try to not have a long stroke.  Obviously, on long putts I take it back further.  The longer my stroke, the more chance I have of mis-hits; remember, I'm not looking at the ball.  I'm use a short backstroke with acceleration.

 

And that is what you need based on the choices you have made.   We all make decisions and those decisions influence our stroke.  

[HardcoreLooper]

I agree with all these points with the exception of #4.  While I do not advocate spending precious practice time on these tweener putts, I believe it is imperative to spend time before playing, gauging the speed of the green.  Sure, practice the long putts for lag and the short putts to make, but on the day of play I believe that there is benefit to random putting to holes of varying distance.  Don't putt to the same hole from the same distance all the time.  Putt to different holes or the same hole from different distances and from different directions.  It helps build confidence that you can get it close when out on the course, and a few do fall in!

Kenny B - Thanks for clarifying. For #4, I'm talking strictly about practice, not pre-round warm up. You're absolutely right, pre-round, it's all about learning the speed of the greens. If I have enough room, I like to take a bunch of balls and try to lag them up against the edge of the green. I'll pick a spot on the edge about 15 feet away at an angle and lag to it, then pick spots five feet to the left and right (so you get a shorter putt and a longer putt). Then I'll do it again for 25 and 35 feet.

[PlaidJacket]

Over the weekend I think it was I read that the USGA is going to release a rule or perhaps a rule modification concerning the use of Green Reading books/charts/maps. I understand it's imminent. As far as I'm concerned I think that's a good move. I don't think the Pros or anyone else for that matter should be using something like that. Like the USGA feels about this issue I too think green reading with the eye should be "part of the game". Not reading or deciphering a chart/map or diagram. I too think green reading is a part of the skill (or lack of) when playing golf. However.... if you want to use such books or charts/maps when practicing or before a competition; Fine. Otherwise, No.

I saw this earlier.... 

https://www.strackaline.com/#/about

[cnosil]

Heard the same about the green books. Apparently it is basically a fine deal as I read that during an interview with Speith he thought I may have already been enacted. It hasn't but the article took that to mean it it close to being put in place at least for the pro tour.

[GB13]

Over the weekend I think it was I read that the USGA is going to release a rule or perhaps a rule modification concerning the use of Green Reading books/charts/maps. I understand it's imminent. As far as I'm concerned I think that's a good move. I don't think the Pros or anyone else for that matter should be using something like that. Like the USGA feels about this issue I too think green reading with the eye should be "part of the game". Not reading or deciphering a chart/map or diagram. I too think green reading is a part of the skill (or lack of) when playing golf. However.... if you want to use such books or charts/maps when practicing or before a competition; Fine. Otherwise, No.

I saw this earlier....

https://www.strackaline.com/#/about

Finally, I can't believe it took them so long. Green reading is and integral part of the game. It takes skill, not the skill of being able to read a chart but being able to see breaks.

I wonder how the scores will suffer or if they will at all?

[cnosil]

.

I wonder how the scores will suffer or if they will at all?

About as much as changing the grooves to reduce spin when hitting from the rough

[GB13]

About as much as changing the grooves to reduce spin when hitting from the rough

I think they might lose a shot or two a round. The pros rely so heavily on the green books. It has been a while since they didn't have a "crutch" to lean on if they are truly baffled by a read. I think the scoring average might go up for a few months and then come back down to where it was before the spike.

[jb0330]

Do you have a link to those stats? I'm real interested to see them.

 

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So I opened Instagram this morning and Peter Finch had posted this.

 

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[Kenny B]

So I opened Instagram this morning and Peter Finch had posted this. Screenshot_20180723-072605_Instagram.jpeg

 

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The percentage for 3 feet would be higher if it weren't for Spieth.

[THEZIPR23]

There is a lot of good, I'll say reasons, on why we miss putts. But let's be honest. Putting is probably single handily the hardest thing to do in a game that is incredibly difficult. You have a 20 foot putt on perfect greens, you have the perfect read take the putter back and you stroke it with a .5 degree open/closed face and you miss the hole entirely. Now you read the comebacker a degree the wrong way and have the face 1 degree the opposite way and you have now 3 putted from 20 feet and you didn't hit a bad putt. That's why the make percentage on tour from 7 feet is 50%. There is no margin for error on the greens.

 

 

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[tony@CIC]

The percentage for 3 feet would be higher if it weren't for Spieth.

Now that's funny. But I don't think he'd find it amusing

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

Caught Sean Foley on the Golf Channel Monday night and he was playing on the course with someone and said that the tour average from 8 feet is 50% and if he has a putt longer than that he's happy if he gets it close.

Maybe I should change my mindset?

 

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[Shankster]

Caught Sean Foley on the Golf Channel Monday night and he was playing on the course with someone and said that the tour average from 8 feet is 50% and if he has a putt longer than that he's happy if he gets it close.

Maybe I should change my mindset?

 

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Yes! I felt like anything on the green should go in. Changed my expectations and BAM my putting improved because I wasn't ticked off when I missed a 25' putt. I still want to make them, but you have to figure out where you want your comeback putt to be from.

[cnosil]

Caught Sean Foley on the Golf Channel Monday night and he was playing on the course with someone and said that the tour average from 8 feet is 50% and if he has a putt longer than that he's happy if he gets it close.

Maybe I should change my mindset?

 

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Yep. Same type of information that was posted above. Control what you can control, sometimes putts just don't go in even though you made the perfect stroke and started the ball on the right line.

[Kor.A.Door]

I think for many of us. When we say we are a bad putter, it's not that we really are bad, the numbers would show that we are actually pretty okay. I think for many of us we just don't make very many scoring putts. So we may have 33 putts or 36 putts, but that just means that we aren't making anything that matters. I think there's a lot of factors. Mainly it's mental, with some nerves thrown in along with Some unbelief that I can even make it, and that's just the 4 footers for birdie.

So I think the “bad putter” thing is misconstrued, its more of a “how the heck do you make these putts that matter” thing.

[DaveP043]

There is a lot of good, I'll say reasons, on why we miss putts. But let's be honest. Putting is probably single handily the hardest thing to do in a game that is incredibly difficult. You have a 20 foot putt on perfect greens, you have the perfect read take the putter back and you stroke it with a .5 degree open/closed face and you miss the hole entirely. Now you read the comebacker a degree the wrong way and have the face 1 degree the opposite way and you have now 3 putted from 20 feet and you didn't hit a bad putt. That's why the make percentage on tour from 7 feet is 50%. There is no margin for error on the greens.

Putting is the simplest motion we attempt to make on the golf course.  Its simply not that hard, its our expectations that are out of line.  I play with 15 handicappers who moan when they miss a 12 footer, as if they should all go in.  That's like a good-hitting baseball player griping every single time he makes an out, the best in the game only succeed about 1 time in 3.  When we accept that we just won't make many putts outside of 10 feet, and even outside of 5 feet we're going to miss a significant percentage, we're going to be much more content with the level of our putting skill.  If you want to make more putts, hit the ball closer.  

Just as an example, you have to hit a putt within 2 inches of dead center for it to go in, even at near perfect dying speed.  From 10 feet, that's a little under 1 degree either way.  Extrapolate that out, that's similar to hitting within 10 feet of your target from 200 yards.  Its damn hard!!

[StrokerAce]

Putting is the simplest motion we attempt to make on the golf course.  Its simply not that hard, its our expectations that are out of line.  I play with 15 handicappers who moan when they miss a 12 footer, as if they should all go in.  That's like a good-hitting baseball player griping every single time he makes an out, the best in the game only succeed about 1 time in 3.  When we accept that we just won't make many putts outside of 10 feet, and even outside of 5 feet we're going to miss a significant percentage, we're going to be much more content with the level of our putting skill.  If you want to make more putts, hit the ball closer.  

 

I think it's really important to find your own personal "gimme" range. 

 

I don't mean that distance where your playing partners tell you it's good.

I mean that spot where when you step up to the ball you don't have to think about it.  You "know" it's going in...and are 'honestly' surprised when it doesn't.  I say honestly because we can't honestly say we are surprised when the 20 footer doesn't go in...

 

That maybe 1 foot, 3 feet, 6 feet....

 

If you're farther away than your PGR (personal gimme range) then hit it there.

Why?

 

Because your odds of making something longer than that are less than 50%.

Plan one shot ahead and make sure you don't turn a long putt into a shorter 3 putt.

 

Of course...with practice....your PGR can expand from 1 to 3 to 6 and you can be a little more aggressive on those longer putts so that if you do miss your comebacker isn't uncomfortable.

 

Now...just go do it! 

[cnosil]

Putting is the simplest motion we attempt to make.

The key word in your sentence is “attempt”. Most poor putters start to manipulate the stroke after the miss believing they did something wrong. The baseball player you referred too understands you won't hit everything, but won't change the technique when they miss.

 

People change their techniques with putting because they don't know how to evaluate if they hit a good putt or hit a bad putt in addition to having high expectations.

 

Many people try to liken putting to tossing a ball to someone. I finally saw a good response to that statement: “Putting is not like throwing a ball to someone. In throwing, someone else catches/stops the ball for you.

 

The main skill (difficulty wise) in putting is how well you can stop it when you want. The player is in charge of the stopping; not someone else.”

 

Putting has its own set of challenges and the actual stroke is not the only challenge nor necessarily the most difficult.

[DaveP043]

The key word in your sentence is “attempt”. Most poor putters start to manipulate the stroke after the miss believing they did something wrong. The baseball player you referred too understands you won't hit everything, but won't change the technique when they miss.

 

People change their techniques with putting because they don't know how to evaluate if they hit a good putt or hit a bad putt in addition to having high expectations.

 

Many people try to liken putting to tossing a ball to someone. I finally saw a good response to that statement: “Putting is not like throwing a ball to someone. In throwing, someone else catches/stops the ball for you.

 

The main skill (difficulty wise) in putting is how well you can stop it when you want. The player is in charge of the stopping; not someone else.”

 

Putting has its own set of challenges and the actual stroke is not the only challenge nor necessarily the most difficult.

I wouldn't say putting is easy, just that the motion itself is simple.  In my view, putting is 3 parts:  hitting the ball on the intended line, hitting the ball the intended distance, and figuring out what combination of line and distance will get the ball in the hole (the read).  You can do any two of those well and still miss the putt.  You can do one well, make offsetting errors in the other two, and make the putt.  And yes, the player needs to figure out which of the three they do poorly, and improve that.  

Get a metal yardstick, and see if you can putt the ball without having it fall off either side.  If you can do that consistently, you should be able to hit your line on the course.  If you can hit your line, do NOT fiddle with your stroke.  There are lots of drills to work on distance control, I like the ladder drill.  Last is green reading, and for me Aimpoint Express has helped quite a bit.  Most of us have the potential to get pretty good at putting, but many will expect results that just aren't realistic, its good to understand the statistics of how good "pretty good" really is.

[cnosil]

I wouldn't say putting is easy, just that the motion itself is simple. In my view, putting is 3 parts: hitting the ball on the intended line, hitting the ball the intended distance, and figuring out what combination of line and distance will get the ball in the hole (the read). You can do any two of those well and still miss the putt. You can do one well, make offsetting errors in the other two, and make the putt. And yes, the player needs to figure out which of the three they do poorly, and improve that.

Get a metal yardstick, and see if you can putt the ball without having it fall off either side. If you can do that consistently, you should be able to hit your line on the course. If you can hit your line, do NOT fiddle with your stroke. There are lots of drills to work on distance control, I like the ladder drill. Last is green reading, and for me Aimpoint Express has helped quite a bit. Most of us have the potential to get pretty good at putting, but many will expect results that just aren't realistic, its good to understand the statistics of how good "pretty good" really is.

Agree with you 100%. Putting is one area of golf that we can actually exceed the ability level of a PGA tour pro.

[bardle]

I struggle at putting, for no other reason than I don't practice it enough. I have been recently much more, but haven't been able to get on the course to test it out.

 

That being said, Based on what I'm hearing in this thread, putting aint easy. So can you more informed peeps quantify it? Leaving out proximity to hole, GIR, etc, etc. What, in general is a good average number of putts to shoot for during a round for any golfer? 36? 30? And I dont mean if your putting out of your mind...just what should be a relatively attainable goal for the average amateur and what should I be shooting for so my expectations arent so high? 

[StrokerAce]

I struggle at putting, for no other reason than I don't practice it enough. I have been recently much more, but haven't been able to get on the course to test it out.

 

That being said, Based on what I'm hearing in this thread, putting aint easy. So can you more informed peeps quantify it? Leaving out proximity to hole, GIR, etc, etc. What, in general is a good average number of putts to shoot for during a round for any golfer? 36? 30? And I dont mean if your putting out of your mind...just what should be a relatively attainable goal for the average amateur and what should I be shooting for so my expectations arent so high? 

 

I don't keep track too often but a good starting point for me is at worst 2 putts per hole.  I suppose that would be 36 per round if playing 18.

Anything below that and I'm pleased and feel as though I'm making progress.  

[cnosil]

I struggle at putting, for no other reason than I don't practice it enough. I have been recently much more, but haven't been able to get on the course to test it out.

 

That being said, Based on what I'm hearing in this thread, putting aint easy. So can you more informed peeps quantify it? Leaving out proximity to hole, GIR, etc, etc. What, in general is a good average number of putts to shoot for during a round for any golfer? 36? 30? And I dont mean if your putting out of your mind...just what should be a relatively attainable goal for the average amateur and what should I be shooting for so my expectations arent so high?

Hard to quantify the way you want. If you hit every green then I would say 36 is a good number; basically 2 putts on every green. In you miss all the green and are chipping into the green then 36 would be a bad number.

 

If you aren't hitting the ball close to the hole then you should be looking at 2 putts per hole and avoiding 3 putts. If you are hitting it closer the you start looking for 1 putts.

 

Here is a link to a MGS article from a couple of years Ago that has stats published by The Grint for each handicap level

 

https://mygolfspy.com/2016-report-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap/

[DaveP043]

That being said, Based on what I'm hearing in this thread, putting aint easy. So can you more informed peeps quantify it? Leaving out proximity to hole, GIR, etc, etc. What, in general is a good average number of putts to shoot for during a round for any golfer? 36? 30? And I dont mean if your putting out of your mind...just what should be a relatively attainable goal for the average amateur and what should I be shooting for so my expectations arent so high? 

Based on the report linked by @cnosil, and your handicap, you should aspire to get to no more than 36 putts in a round.  On the plus side, putting is one of the skills that most people can improve pretty quickly, simply because the motion isn't really complex.  A realistic goal is to get each putt within 10% of your distance.  For a 30-footer, aim to get inside 3 feet.  On the PGA Tour they 3-putt about as often from 30 feet as they 1-putt.  You can probably get just about that good.  You need good speed control, and you need to make most of your 3 or 4-foot putts.  Those are the things most of us should work on, speed control from 30 feet or more, and hitting the putt on line from 3 or 4 feet.

[bardle]

Hard to quantify the way you want. If you hit every green then I would say 36 is a good number; basically 2 putts on every green. In you miss all the green and are chipping into the green then 36 would be a bad number.

 

If you aren't hitting the ball close to the hole then you should be looking at 2 putts per hole and avoiding 3 putts. If you are hitting it closer the you start looking for 1 putts.

 

Here is a link to a MGS article from a couple of years Ago that has stats published by The Grint for each handicap level

 

https://mygolfspy.com/2016-report-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap/

 

I bookmarked that article. Its a fantastic way to keep up with where I should be. I am actually ahead of the game on all of those stats per my handicap, albeit just barely. It also gave me that average putt # to look for and how to improve. Really cool article. Im suprised they didnt keep doing them.

 

 

Based on the report linked by @cnosil, and your handicap, you should aspire to get to no more than 36 putts in a round.  On the plus side, putting is one of the skills that most people can improve pretty quickly, simply because the motion isn't really complex.  A realistic goal is to get each putt within 10% of your distance.  For a 30-footer, aim to get inside 3 feet.  On the PGA Tour they 3-putt about as often from 30 feet as they 1-putt.  You can probably get just about that good.  You need good speed control, and you need to make most of your 3 or 4-foot putts.  Those are the things most of us should work on, speed control from 30 feet or more, and hitting the putt on line from 3 or 4 feet.

 

I've been doing carpet putting as an aligment check and making sure I can keep the ball on line, its also helped me be able to tell when I push or pull puts and what it should sound like when I hit one clean. Ready to test it out Sunday. 

[Kor.A.Door]

Hard to quantify the way you want. If you hit every green then I would say 36 is a good number; basically 2 putts on every green. In you miss all the green and are chipping into the green then 36 would be a bad number.

 

If you aren't hitting the ball close to the hole then you should be looking at 2 putts per hole and avoiding 3 putts. If you are hitting it closer the you start looking for 1 putts.

 

Here is a link to a MGS article from a couple of years Ago that has stats published by The Grint for each handicap level

 

https://mygolfspy.com/2016-report-overall-golfer-performance-by-handicap/

Why is 36 a bad number if you have to chip the ball? The putting didn't change. 36 is still a good number. The bad number is the missed green.

[GB13]

Why is 36 a bad number if you have to chip the ball? The putting didn't change. 36 is still a good number. The bad number is the missed green.

In theory the chips should be closer to the pin than a GIR. So in theory the putting was worse because you were closer to the hole to start.

If you are the same distance then maybe the chipping needs to be looked at too.

[Kor.A.Door]

In theory the chips should be closer to the pin than a GIR. So in theory the putting was worse because you were closer to the hole to start.

If you are the same distance then maybe the chipping needs to be looked at too.

I get it that the chip should be closer, but unless you are knocking it to inside 4 feet, the chances of getting up and down are 50% at best. Outside of that distance that number drastically decreases in make percentage. So it's the chipping that needs the work not the putting. I think when we don't make a putt we feel like we are a bad putter, but in reality our putting isnt bad. We just don't make too many scoring putts. Some guys make a lot of scoring putts, that's why they are considered good or great. It's the scoring putts that are the issue.

[GB13]

I get it that the chip should be closer, but unless you are knocking it to inside 4 feet, the chances of getting up and down are 50% at best. Outside of that distance that number drastically decreases in make percentage. So it's the chipping that needs the work not the putting. I think when we don't make a putt we feel like we are a bad putter, but in reality our putting isnt bad. We just don't make too many scoring putts. Some guys make a lot of scoring putts, that's why they are considered good or great. It's the scoring putts that are the issue.

I don't think it matters whether or not it's a scoring putt. A stroke is a stroke is a stroke. Whether it be for par birdie or double, 1 is 1. I would take missing every birdie putt and making all other putts over making every birdie putt and missing other putts.