Mr. 82 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 We were discussing the PGA Championship in it's official thread, and there were comments saying that the PGA Championship was the least exciting of the four majors, and that it wasn't any different from a regular tour stop, except for the prize money, and exemptions that the winner receives. So while I was out at lunch today I was wondering if the PGA of America should shake things up a bit (beyond moving to May to play it) and maybe try a match play format, or some other type of format for this tournament that would make it unique and stand out from the other three majors. Because as it is right now, we have three majors that are iconic, and then the PGA Championship as an afterthought for the most part. Breaking it down, here is how you describe the other three majors: Masters: The legend of Bobby Jones lives, Augusta National as paradise or nirvana for golfers. US Open: America's national championship, with over 100 years of history. It's considered by many to be the toughest tournament to win every year. Open Championship: The R&A's signature event, and the crowning of the "Champion Golfer of the Year." I mean, who wouldn't want to be crowned that? But the PGA Championship leaves me scratching my head. I mean, if the best memory I can conjure from the history of this tournament is a young John Daly winning at Crooked Stick, we may have an image problem here. Any other thoughts or ideas on how to make the PGA Championship stand out as a major on it's own? G400 Driver XR 4 Fairway 16.5° Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21° G Series 5-9 irons SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58° Ghost Spider S putter Nexus Laser Rangefinder Garmin Approach S20 GPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaussman1 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 The Match play format is extremely unpredictable and can result in some very underwhelming final matches as we've seen w the Accenture, so I would not be in favor of changing the PGA back to that format. Could make for some really poor TV. It may just be "the other one" but the PGA is still a major. I think any tour pro would rather win a PGA than a Players Championship or even a FedEx Cup. Majors are the only events that history cares about, plus it's the only tip of the cap from the PGA Tour to the club pros. Those guys deserve the recognition. In fact I think you can make a very strong argument that the PGA of America is more important to the game here in the US than the USGA. PGA Members definitely do more to keep the game right as the USGA looks for ways to screw it up. Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5 Back in the Bag Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff 54 and 60 Amazing Grace Ass Kicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I've thought this in the past. Regardless of whether or not it would be good it will not happen for the reason Gaussman1 stated. It will produce a dud. There are 4 majors, one is bound to be fourth. If you removed the PGA and inserted another major it would be....4th. I'm fairly certain that similar numbers of people will prefer either the Masters or the Open with the US Open third. My personal ranking is US Open, Open, Masters, PGA although there are PGA venues that will move it ahead of the Masters for me - this year's is not one of those. We all know from other threads that while I enjoy the Masters, I believe it's over rated because of a weak for a major field. Other people find that quaint. I see their point but don't agree. I actually have the Players as a must watch event ahead of the Masters and the PGA because of its field. At any rate I will be interested to see how the day change impacts the PGA. I think it's a good move. Match play, as intriguing as I would find it personally, would not be. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 IMO, match play makes for terrible TV, especially during the semi's and finals. Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palvord Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 If you're looking for something to make it stand out, try having a shot clock on the play. (I personally think this would not go over well for a major) As others have mentioned, something has to be 4th when you are ranking the majors. The PGA is special because it is a major. No matter what else happens, the winners are held in high regard for that fact. I personally enjoy the PGA because it allows the local club pro a chance to compete with the touring pro and that creates the potential for a Cinderella story-line. In my Ultralight Stand Bag: Driver: Rogue 10.5° - LH - Project X EvenFlow 60 Stiff Woods: King F9 - LH - 3/4 Wood - Atmos Blue TS 7 Stiff King F9 - LH - 5/6 Wood - Atmos Blue TS 7 Stiff Irons: King F9 - LH - 5-GW - KBS C-Taper Lite Stiff Wedges: King Black - LH - 52° 56° 60° - KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 Stiff Putter: - Impact No. 3 Ball: Maxfli TourX Rangefinder: LX5 Watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 How about first 2 rounds are qualifying and then the top 16 make it to match play? I think that would be much more exiting than true match play. I still don't think this should happen. Like Rev said one is bound to be 4th. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Move it to a world tournament. Have a Heathland Open. We ready have our Parkland Tournament - The Master Our US Open The Open Then meh... the PGA Make it a traveling major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I'll take a traveling major. As Shankster said we already have our parkland major and no other parkland major will top it. Move it around, maybe go to the sand belt in Australia one year and some mountain course in Europe the next. I don't know. Just do something to make unique. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy MPR Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 If we're talking about ways to add a measure of difference and excitement, how about some form of Stableford scoring? My understanding (haven't really played this format before) is that it incentivizes playing for birdies and eagles even more than protecting par. TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW CBX 48° T22 54° and 60° EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip TP5x and Tour Response Full WITB with pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor.A.Door Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 No. Match play is horrible. Once the guy you want to win gets eliminated you stop watching. come Sunday we want 15 guys to have a chance at the win, not 2. Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor.A.Door Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I'll take a traveling major. As Shankster said we already have our parkland major and no other parkland major will top it. Move it around, maybe go to the sand belt in Australia one year and some mountain course in Europe the next. I don't know. Just do something to make unique. On paper it sounds good, but it is the PGA of America, so not sure how traveling to Australia fits. Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver & black Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 My personal ranking is US Open, Open, Masters, PGA Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 God no. You really think something like a Brian Harman vs Patrick Cantlay finals match will make things better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Yeah the Dell Match Play gets a little... crickets. They do have the EuropeanTour PGA BMW Championship. Just alternate every other year. The British Masters at Walton Heath will be on my radar this fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Masters: The legend of Bobby Jones lives, Augusta National as paradise or nirvana for golfers. US Open: America's national championship, with over 100 years of history. It's considered by many to be the toughest tournament to win every year. Open Championship: The R&A's signature event, and the crowning of the "Champion Golfer of the Year." I mean, who wouldn't want to be crowned that? PGA: Allows our local Pro the avenue to compete at a MAJOR with the finest golfers in the world. The PGA supports the guys we see behind the counter on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. The ones we take for granted and complain to when something is not right but never thank when things are going well. Every time we say "go see your Pro" this is who we are talking about. I imagine that the tour players don't think it is a regular tour stop. It also is traditionally the strongest field on tour every year. I think it is our perception of the tournament that needs to change. Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On paper it sounds good, but it is the PGA of America, so not sure how traveling to Australia fits.Yes and No. It is the PGA of America but it isn't the US Open. I don't see why even though it is the PGA of America they can't contest the tournament somewhere else. It is still a PGA of America contest. Either way there are still plenty of great DIFFERENT style courses in the US. I can't think of the name right now but there was that linksy style course in Texas. Get some really hilly mountain courses. Just do something. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har in the Hat Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I don't see a travelling tournament workin ( I may be wrong here). Isn't the sponsor the one who dictates where the tourney will be held? - ie usually where their headquarters are . John Deer has been held in Silvis since the dawn of day. Arnies tourney has been held in????? The Honda classic was held at..... What's in my Mizuno BR-D2 bag OFFICIAL TESTER FOR THE PING i500 CLUBS. Currently playing Ping i500 w/ Alta CB graphite shafts MP 25 - fitted w/ Project X shafts - stiff 60 / 56 52 910 D2 driver - 9.5 degree -fitted13 F 3 wood 13.5 deg CPR 3 hybrid Method mallet Dexterity: I shoot left-handed so no one can ask me "Hey, can I try that club?" Twitter @GolfingHat Instagram @Mizunostixgolfnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I don't see a travelling tournament workin ( I may be wrong here). Isn't the sponsor the one who dictates where the tourney will be held? - ie usually where their headquarters are . John Deer has been held in Silvis since the dawn of day. Arnies tourney has been held in????? The Honda classic was held at..... Yes, but if the PGA of America agrees. It wouldn't make a difference. The PGA already dictates where the tournament is held. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srooch2 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I think it should be the tour championship/pga championship. Meaning run the playoff format as usual but the top 30 go on to have a chance at a major. This would make both more exciting. I realize they would be cutting one tournament out but I think the tour championship is dull as well. I'm sure there is a lot of loop holes but it's a start. Sent from my VS988 using MyGolfSpy mobile app Ping G410 LST 10.5 w/ Fujikura Motore F3 60X Callaway X2 Hot 2 Deep 12.5* Adams XTD LSP 23* hybrid Aldila rogue black 85X Nike VR Pro II Blades 5-PW w/ Modus 120X Nike Wedges PXG Putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I think it should be the tour championship/pga championship. Meaning run the playoff format as usual but the top 30 go on to have a chance at a major. This would make both more exciting. I realize they would be cutting one tournament out but I think the tour championship is dull as well. I'm sure there is a lot of loop holes but it's a start. Sent from my VS988 using MyGolfSpy mobile app So you are saying to cut the PGA and make the TC a major? I doubt the PGA would go for this. The TC already decides the FedEx cup. I think that might put too much emphisis on one tournament. The PGA just needs to change it up not scratch the whole tournament. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixyurdivot Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Aspects of match play are fun, but I wouldn't vote to change a major to that format. G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Evnroll ER5v Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I haven't followed pro golf in the post Tiger era, but if there' a lack of dominant figures, there's nothing to lose, ratings wise, by trying match play again. Since the change to stroke play in the late 50s, people have stopped recognizing the USGA and R&A Amateur Championships, both match play events, as Majors. I vehemently disagree with this even now. It diminishes the legacy of Bobby Jones. And Tiger Woods who is really one Major closer to Jack than is stated because of his three rather than two USGA Amateur titles.. Also, it leaves a Holy Grail to still chase. If we count the Amateur titles, nobody has won all six Majors yet. What really puts me in the minority is my contempt for the Masters. Forget about the antebellum pretentiousness, never an attraction to us aged hippie northeasterners! The event is an Invitational. It's not for the championship of anything. It's in early spring before half the country is really playing golf yet. A true purist can't call it a major. But most people really like it, so that's the real reason, not a bad one, to keep it a Major. As for the PGA Championship, we also have a Tournament Players Championship and a Club Professionals Championship that diminish it. I don't really care about either of the latter two events. I would change the real, original PGA Championship to include the defending PGA regional club pro champions and regional qualifiers, the defending TPA Champion, all former winners of the R&A and USGA Open Championships and the PGA Championship itself and sigh, the Masters; and perhaps the defending Champions of foreign pro tours like the European.....period. Give the PGA back to the real PGA, not the PGA Tour, professional golfers but not golf professionals, people who never gave a lesson nor sold a sleeve of Titleists over the counter to earn the "golf professional" appellation that's associated with the PGA. And keep it a Major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 @NiftyNiblick - I'm so glad you're back! I don't hate the Masters as vehemently as you because I'm a post hippie boomer - one of those guys whose friend's cute older sister was a hippie so I thought it was cool. And I'm from the Northeast So while my emotions don't run as deeply on yours on this one I'm in agreement that the Master's is a trumped up Major - if you aren't invited you don't get to play. I will grant that they have made it less arbitrary the past two or three decades but there are still tons of people left out who would have a chance to win. Most certainly you'd never have a John Daly like breakthrough at Augusta - oh my, my no way, no how. But its a brilliant formula - by including the top 50 in the world and excluding the next 400 or 500 players who would have a realistic chance to win you insure big names on the leader board along with some oldies but goodies sprinkled in or the unexpected upstart who makes his way on to the leader board so that they can say, "See how inclusive we are." Also the course is great and it looks great, always. Back to the PGA I think they've made a great step by moving it earlier in the year when it will get more attention and be played on some different courses even than the USGA is able to use. Could you imagine Shinnecock in May? Oh wait, they will be playing on a brutal course half an hour away from there this year - I'm rooting for snow. Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 The points of your excellent argument are what made me begrudgingly accept the Masters as a Major, Rev, because as we well know, my opinion is so critically important! Thanks for the tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srooch2 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 So you are saying to cut the PGA and make the TC a major? I doubt the PGA would go for this. The TC already decides the FedEx cup. I think that might put too much emphisis on one tournament. The PGA just needs to change it up not scratch the whole tournament.No, just combine them, I guess if you were technically gonna cut one it would be the tour championship. I just think qualifying for the pga championship should be through the current playoff system. It's never gonna happen, just thinking out loud. Sent from my VS988 using MyGolfSpy mobile app Ping G410 LST 10.5 w/ Fujikura Motore F3 60X Callaway X2 Hot 2 Deep 12.5* Adams XTD LSP 23* hybrid Aldila rogue black 85X Nike VR Pro II Blades 5-PW w/ Modus 120X Nike Wedges PXG Putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiftyNiblick Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 I just think qualifying for the pga championship should be through the current playoff system. I don't worship at the altar of PGA Tour players. I think that the USGA and R&A Amateurs should still be regarded as majors. The PGA Championship should be the PGA's championship, not the PGA Tour's. Only touring pros who are former major winners should be allowed to compete against the regional champion club pros. They'll be enough to get TV ratings. The USGA Open, R&A Open, and Masters can stay as they are. That gives the overall touring pro field three shots (out of six) at qualifying for a major. Having said that, I don't know a single other person who shares my opinion. I guess that I'm still immune to peer pressure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charli Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I like the idea going somewhere different. make it the traveling major. But match play no thanks. Imagine those tv ratings if tiger got eliminated round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 After this past one it can keep on keepin on. Best major of the year. A tie with the US Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cksurfdude Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 The Match play format is extremely unpredictable and can result in some very underwhelming final matches as we've seen w the Accenture, so I would not be in favor of changing the PGA back to that format. Could make for some really poor TV. It may just be "the other one" but the PGA is still a major. I think any tour pro would rather win a PGA than a Players Championship or even a FedEx Cup. Majors are the only events that history cares about, ... plus it's the only tip of the cap from the PGA Tour to the club pros. Those guys deserve the recognition. In fact I think you can make a very strong argument that the PGA of America is more important to the game here in the US than the USGA. PGA Members definitely do more to keep the game right ...as the USGA looks for ways to screw it up. Great points! Some club pros may qualify for the US Open, and I guess some may even make it to the weekend, but for most of those hard-working people the PGA is "their" major. WITB of an "aspiring" play-ah ... Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A) 5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R) 7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R) 4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3) 5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3) 6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite) Putter...EvnRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grips) ...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour. Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023) Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eseay32 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I would love more Match play period. That's all I can contribute to this thread Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy <p>Knoxville, TN 8 Hdcp PXG 0811 10.59deg loft Ping G25 3 wood Titleist 2i rescue Ping I irons +1 upright Vokey Sm5 52, 56, OdysseyRed 2Ball Fang with 1.0 super stroke</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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