9 vs 18

[SteddyGolf]

Life can be extremely busy. The demands on our time often exceed the hours in a day. If you work 10 to 12 hours a day plus 1, 2 or let's say 3 hours commute time; outside of eating, sleeping and family time there really isn't much left for leisure activities.

 

I love playing Golf but let's take a look at the time required to play a full round. Keep in mind these time estimates are based on a medium so in your area given your specific variables they maybe a little different. If I have a 7 am tee time I'm up at 5 am to walk the dog, shower, get dressed and load the car. I usually leave the house at 6 to arrive at the course by 630 am at the latest. 30 minutes to check in the pro shop, drop my greenie money off at our treasurer, hit a small bucket and putt prior to first tee shot.

 

A round of Golf in my area on a Saturday or Sunday takes 4 1/2 to 5 hours. Since we usually have three groups of 4 let's estimate our time based on the last group to finish which would be around noon. From 12 to 1230 we exchange money for individual and team bets while the treasurer pays out greenies, low front/back/overall and skins. I'm usually in the car headed back home by 1245 arriving in the driveway at approximately 0115. 7 1/2 to 8 hours after I left the house I return to a myriad of tasks my wife and children need me to accomplish.

 

What if I could cut that time in half? 4 hours might not sound like much but in our time constrained lives it is an incredible amount of time that could add real value to our busy lives. 4 hours a week, 16 hours a month, almost 200 hours a year...........the car is clean, the dog is washed, the back fence is mended, the grass stays manicured, shot baskets with my son, listened to my daughter play the piano, had real conversations and valued time with my wife, etc. annnnnnnnd I played Golf.

 

One piece of pie is usually just enough to make you want more. However, if you go in for that second slice your belly hurts and after a couple indulgences your pants no longer fit. Back to golf.......

 

I love Golf but 18 holes is a lot and takes quite a bit of time to play. I'm usually bored and or inpatient at about hole 12. So there it is! What if we redefined Golf as 12 holes; 4 par threes, 4 par fours and 4 par fives? From first tee to hat off hand shakes is 2 hours and some change. Life would be grand. All the things I have to do/want to do plus I get to play Golf???????? Living la viva loco.

 

I know the traditionalists are stewing at this point. Still I can dream of a world in which my life can fit neatly in the time allotted to live it. FYI .... I'm writing this at 1 am while spooning with my sick monster.

 

 

 

 

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[ole gray]

I use to play 36 holes on Sat/Sun back when I was younger. Now I'm retired and play 18 holes three days per week. I have the option to play more however the old body won't let me.

 

 

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[SteddyGolf]

I use to play 36 holes on Sat/Sun back when I was younger. Now I'm retired and play 18 holes three days per week. I have the option to play more however the old body won't let me.

 

 

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Brother 18 years ago while stationed at Fort Sill (single at the time) I would walk 36 every Saturday and Sunday. We had two courses located on opposite ends of the installation. I'd play one, break for lunch then head out to the other for a second round. 54 was the most I ever played and that was carrying my bag the entire time. Three factors were at work; young, single and time!!!!!

 

 

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[SteddyGolf]

I still prefer playing 18, some days I'm just warmed up and hitting well after 12 holes! As long as I tee off early, I still have all afternoon for the rest of life, along with the days I don't play at all. I only play 9 when I want to practice alone, and I'm hitting multiple balls - which works out to the equivalent of playing 18-27 holes in full swing strokes.

 

Rumor has it a local muni course is going to lose 2-3 holes for a school expansion next door, and they're considering making it a 15 hole course. Most of us think they'll lose almost everyone who plays there if they do...might test acceptance for what the OP suggests (tongue in cheek?).

Change is always difficult to accept and also extremely uncomfortable if it's not a desired change. Just for the sake of discussion how do you think you'd feel about an 18 hole round of Golf if a round of Golf had always been 9, 12 or 15? We could also take it the other direction. How would you feel about an 18 hole round of golf if the norm were 27? 18 is a number, one that we have come to accept as the norm for a round of Golf but in the end it is still just a number. Is it the right number? If a normal round of Golf had always been 15 holes but your muni offered 3 additional would the elimination of those three final holes have a adverse effect of rounds played?

 

 

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[palvord]

For me, I prefer to play what I can.  Between work and home responsibilities, golf is always a privilege.  Even if it is just being able to go to the driving range to hit a small bucket, I'll enjoy that challenge.
 

I do think that golfers in general are a stubborn and slow to change group, so embracing a "different" way of playing golf will not be well received.  The idea of a course offering different greens fees for a 9, 12, 15, or 18 hole round is intriguing and could help people still find a way to enjoy the game while balancing out all of the other demands of life.

[russtopherb]

I play 9 all the time. I love it. It allows me to get out, enjoy a round, and still be home to go to my kids' games, shows, competitions, etc. 

 

Would I play 12 holes if that was an option? Sure. Not every time, but there's absolutely times where I played 9 and wanted to keep going... just like there's times I've played 18 and wanted to keep going. 

[SteddyGolf]

^^ I'm all for change, but I respect tradition as well. St Andrews officially became 18 holes in 1764, so that tradition seems to be holding up well. And most existing courses are 18, or multiples of 9 - are you suggesting they close down to 12?

 

You can play as many or as few holes as you want.

I'm dreaming of a world where everything fits perfectly into life. Incidentally when someone starts off a point of discussion with the statement similar to, “because that's how we have always done it” I'm never sold. I'm one of those people who need measurable evidence to why something should be as it is. I'm quit confidant 18 was a number chosen 200 plus years ago for reasons consistent with the time and area limitation of the day.

 

I know that it would be difficult to make such a change especially as you noted golf courses were designed for 200 plus years around 18 holes. Heck many housing communities were designed around golf course which were designed around an 18 hole layout. There are many many many reasons not to make changes but change starts with an idea. It's now 230 am in Hawaii so I'm not going to present a business plan here tonight although it would be interesting and fun to take this idea from soup to nuts if I had the time

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ&feature=share

 

Yes stopping at 9, 12, or 15 is always an option for any of us and I believe many of us have headed to the car at those points or any other point along the way. A change to a lesser number of holes for a standard round of golf for tournament and handicap play is my suggestion. If my group could handicap to 12 and play to 12 then I could fit all the demands of my life neatly into a tough box .

 

 

 

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[tony@CIC]

I'll play 9 with my wife many evenings, a much better alternative to sitting and watching TV. With the guys, however, I'll always play 18. We have several difficult holes on both the front and back so by playing the full 18 it gives me more confidence for men's league and club championship events. 

[00sportsman]

The course I grew up playing was a 9 hole course, with 1,8,9 on one side of a set of railroad tracks, and 2-7 on the other. You had to cross the tracks in the same place whether going from 1 to 2, or from 7 to 8. This means the 1st green and 8th tee are close.

 

It was really common for my parents and me to go in the evening and play 1,8,9. If we had time, we might play them again from a different tee. Membership was a benefit of my parents' work, so we could walk it whenever we wanted.

 

This course has now embraced the 1,8,9 round, and has a special ($5, I think) greens fee for playing just those 3 holes.

 

I've played a lot of "non-traditional" rounds of golf in my life, and it's probably why I'm still more interested in the challenge of each shot than shooting a low score.

 

Play what works for you. Every shot has its challenges, regardless of the number of holes you play.

 

 

 

 

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[Mr. 82]

You live in freaking Hawaii dude!  (Just sayin')  And one question - you are leaving for the golf course first thing in the morning to get all hot and sweaty - why waste the water and time for a shower?  There - saved you 10-15 minutes.

 

Here's my Saturday routine.  I wake at 5:45 am, throw on the golf clothes, scarf down a few yogurts, and am out the door, usually by 6:00 am.  Arrive at the course around 6:30 am, and wait for our group to tee off.  We usually are on the first tee no later than 7:15, sometimes earlier.  Our group is typically just 3 or 4 of us, and no money involved, just a casual round between friends.  We play ready golf, and most Saturdays I am done by 10:00 am.  Many times I'll text the wife when leaving the course and ask her if she wants to meet me for breakfast, because chances are she slept till about 9:00 and has been on her computer playing games in front of the TV and is still in her pajamas.  The normal lazy Saturday morning routine.

 

Look, if you've read my posts here, you know my story - I'm an empty nester now - the kids are gone.  I don't have a dog, as she died a year ago, so it's just me and the wife.  I literally started playing golf 4 years ago again BECAUSE I was bored out of my mind, sitting at home on a Saturday with nothing to do.  So whether I spend 4 hours, or 8 hours on the golf course, I don't really care, at least on Saturdays.

 

Now after work on a weekday, there is a nice little 9-hole muni about 5 minutes from my office.  If I leave here at 4:30, I'm teeing it up no later than 4:45'ish, and I'm done with 9 holes by 6:00 at the latest, and am at my MIL's house in time for dinner at 6:30 pm.  The 9-holer is never busy, and a lot of times I have the whole place to myself.

 

But I will say this, I play fast, and value my time spent on the golf course.  If I am waiting on every shot, chances are I either won't be back to that course, or I'll just quit mid round and not waste any more of my time.  I emailed a tournament director of a recent event I played in and told him I wouldn't be back, because both the Saturday and Sunday rounds were 5 hours long.  I have very little patience for slow golf, and if you like pissing me off, just make me wait on every shot.  That'll have me exploding faster than a volcano in Hawaii.

 

Our little muni, where I play my Saturday rounds, is getting set to get real busy too, as one of the busiest public courses here in Tallahassee (Seminole - FSU course) is closing at the end of July, to be redesigned and rebuilt, which means that all that traffic from that course has to play somewhere.  If my prediction is right, and they all hit the course I play on Saturdays, then I'll probably break down and get a membership at a local private club.  I probably won't be able to afford it, but the price to keep my sanity, and still be able to play golf at a good pace will be maintained.

 

But if I am in your shoes, and you are even having these thoughts at 1:00 am, you've already answered your question.  Quit the game and spend the time with your family.  I know I didn't play much golf at all when my kids were at home, and still in school.  My Saturdays were much more valuable to me spent with my son or daughter, and my wife too at that time.  If I were you, I'd hang the clubs up until you no longer have a say so in how your kids do stupid things.  Golf is better enjoyed without guilt, and I don't want regrets when they are 26 and adults, and I'm looking back thinking about all the times I did my own thing, when I could have spent that time with my kids.

 

Just my 15 cents that you got for free.

[SteddyGolf]

You live in freaking Hawaii dude! (Just sayin') And one question - you are leaving for the golf course first thing in the morning to get all hot and sweaty - why waste the water and time for a shower? There - saved you 10-15 minutes.

 

Here's my Saturday routine. I wake at 5:45 am, throw on the golf clothes, scarf down a few yogurts, and am out the door, usually by 6:00 am. Arrive at the course around 6:30 am, and wait for our group to tee off. We usually are on the first tee no later than 7:15, sometimes earlier. Our group is typically just 3 or 4 of us, and no money involved, just a casual round between friends. We play ready golf, and most Saturdays I am done by 10:00 am. Many times I'll text the wife when leaving the course and ask her if she wants to meet me for breakfast, because chances are she slept till about 9:00 and has been on her computer playing games in front of the TV and is still in her pajamas. The normal lazy Saturday morning routine.

 

Look, if you've read my posts here, you know my story - I'm an empty nester now - the kids are gone. I don't have a dog, as she died a year ago, so it's just me and the wife. I literally started playing golf 4 years ago again BECAUSE I was bored out of my mind, sitting at home on a Saturday with nothing to do. So whether I spend 4 hours, or 8 hours on the golf course, I don't really care, at least on Saturdays.

 

Now after work on a weekday, there is a nice little 9-hole muni about 5 minutes from my office. If I leave here at 4:30, I'm teeing it up no later than 4:45'ish, and I'm done with 9 holes by 6:00 at the latest, and am at my MIL's house in time for dinner at 6:30 pm. The 9-holer is never busy, and a lot of times I have the whole place to myself.

 

But I will say this, I play fast, and value my time spent on the golf course. If I am waiting on every shot, chances are I either won't be back to that course, or I'll just quit mid round and not waste any more of my time. I emailed a tournament director of a recent event I played in and told him I wouldn't be back, because both the Saturday and Sunday rounds were 5 hours long. I have very little patience for slow golf, and if you like pissing me off, just make me wait on every shot. That'll have me exploding faster than a volcano in Hawaii.

 

Our little muni, where I play my Saturday rounds, is getting set to get real busy too, as one of the busiest public courses here in Tallahassee (Seminole - FSU course) is closing at the end of July, to be redesigned and rebuilt, which means that all that traffic from that course has to play somewhere. If my prediction is right, and they all hit the course I play on Saturdays, then I'll probably break down and get a membership at a local private club. I probably won't be able to afford it, but the price to keep my sanity, and still be able to play golf at a good pace will be maintained.

 

But if I am in your shoes, and you are even having these thoughts at 1:00 am, you've already answered your question. Quit the game and spend the time with your family. I know I didn't play much golf at all when my kids were at home, and still in school. My Saturdays were much more valuable to me spent with my son or daughter, and my wife too at that time. If I were you, I'd hang the clubs up until you no longer have a say so in how your kids do stupid things. Golf is better enjoyed without guilt, and I don't want regrets when they are 26 and adults, and I'm looking back thinking about all the times I did my own thing, when I could have spent that time with my kids.

 

Just my 15 cents that you got for free.

Yes I live in Hawaii, lol, for a couple more months anyway. Please let me clarify my original post. Much of that was simply to illustrate a point and speak on behalf of the average man. Kids are grown and out the house. I'm now one tic tac away from retirement but I realize life is not necessary about me and my conditions. I'm moving into the golf profession world so really just thinking of ways to grow the game. I appreciate the life lessons but believe me I checked that block already . Still for those who are struggling to prioritize your recommendations are spot on and much appreciated.

 

I also appreciate and respect the early responders as will I of those who join the discussion later on. I believe it's healthy to push the envelop from from time to time. Change for the sole sake of change is seldom the best answer. Still perfection is the biggest obstacle to progress. If we always wait for the perfect time for the perfect plan to be executed in the perfect way we might be waiting a very very very long time. There are times when an 85% solution to a problem is better than no solution. I remember a subordinate of mine once told me, “Sergeant Major no answer is still an answer”.

 

Like my ole football coach use to say, “sometimes you just have to put your hand in the ground, lift your ass in the air and hit someone”.

 

Thank you for sharing your routine. That's pretty awesome!!!!!

 

 

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[Mr. 82]

I remember a subordinate of mine what's told me, “Sergeant Major no answer is still an answer”.

Reminds me of going to a pastor or someone at church with a request to do something...

 

"Well, I'll pray about that."

 

That's code for, "no" in church circles.

[SteddyGolf]

Reminds me of going to a pastor or someone at church with a request to do something...

 

"Well, I'll pray about that."

 

That's code for, "no" in church circles.

Lmao! So so true

 

 

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[PlaidJacket]

I feel your pain brother. Some of us have cramped hectic lifestyles and others do not. I agree that playing 18 is more that actually swinging a club over the course of 18 holes. Like you I get to the course usually 1 hour in advance of tee time. I like to warm up chat a bit, putt. chip and ease into the game. Afterwards we also sit around for bit and settle all the best and jaw a little more. So from start to finish I'm away from the house for perhaps 6 hours.

The difference for me is that raising a family is past. I'm pretty much free to come and go and do as I please most of the time. Much the same for everyone else I play with these days. Our rounds average about 4.25 hours.

The good thing about golf is that no one is required to play 18 holes if they some choose. The downside is that like you; we play competitive weekday or weekend golf where the game requires 18 holes. You just can't get involved in competitive golf with bets and such and then cut out after 9. LOL That just doesn't work.

[SteddyGolf]

I feel your pain brother. Some of us have cramped hectic lifestyles and others do not. I agree that playing 18 is more that actually swinging a club over the course of 18 holes. Like you I get to the course usually 1 hour in advance of tee time. I like to warm up chat a bit, putt. chip and ease into the game. Afterwards we also sit around for bit and settle all the best and jaw a little more. So from start to finish I'm away from the house for perhaps 6 hours.

The difference for me is that raising a family is past. I'm pretty much free to come and go and do as I please most of the time. Much the same for everyone else I play with these days. Our rounds average about 4.25 hours.

The good thing about golf is that no one is required to play 18 holes if they some choose. The downside is that like you; we play competitive weekday or weekend golf where the game requires 18 holes. You just can't get involved in competitive golf with bets and such and then cut out after 9. LOL That just doesn't work.

No Sir it doesn't work at all. We had a real world emergency at work one time and I had to cut out after just three holes. I didn't ask for my $20 buy in back but those jokers sure beat me to the punch by ensuring I didn't!!!! Lol

 

 

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[MaxEntropy]

The course I played in Luxembourg this spring was actually Front 12/Back 6 (just because of the layout and where the clubhouse was. You have the choice of 6, 12, or 18. I'm all for a quick 9 on a weekday after work at a nearby course, but I also like playing courses that are different to me, which usually involves a bit of a drive. If my prep/drive/practice takes 1.5-2 hours and 9 holes takes 2 hours, is it worth it? Personally, I don't think so.

[Mr. 82]

No Sir it doesn't work at all. We had a real world emergency at work one time and I had to cut out after just three holes. I didn't ask for my $20 buy in back but those jokers sure beat me to the punch by ensuring I didn't!!!! Lol

 

 

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What did we do before cellphones?

[cnosil]

What did we do before cellphones?

Before cell phones were pagers.

 

Before pagers you used landlines and your wife would then call the course and have the staff come find you.

[SteddyGolf]

What did we do before cellphones?

The call of Freedom must always be answered. It's the life I chose.

 

 

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[palvord]

The course I grew up playing was a 9 hole course, with 1,8,9 on one side of a set of railroad tracks, and 2-7 on the other. You had to cross the tracks in the same place whether going from 1 to 2, or from 7 to 8. This means the 1st green and 8th tee are close.

 

It was really common for my parents and me to go in the evening and play 1,8,9. If we had time, we might play them again from a different tee. Membership was a benefit of my parents' work, so we could walk it whenever we wanted.

 

This course has now embraced the 1,8,9 round, and has a special ($5, I think) greens fee for playing just those 3 holes.

 

I've played a lot of "non-traditional" rounds of golf in my life, and it's probably why I'm still more interested in the challenge of each shot than shooting a low score.

 

Play what works for you. Every shot has its challenges, regardless of the number of holes you play.

 

 

 

 

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I like this idea and hope more courses embrace it as a way for people to still play and get involved in the game. As that tag line says, “grow the game.” To fully grow the game, the gatekeepers will need to be open to various methods of playing the game, rather than just 18 or 9 holes only because “that's the way it's always been.”

 

 

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[cksurfdude]

There was an article I saw earlier this year about a start-up with a system for courses to allow golfers to pay per hole .. so if you wanted to play, say, 6 then you could pay for just 6. Interesting concept - personally I like the idea - but I guess we'll see if it can really gain traction.

 

And the story I'd heard about Why 18? is because that's the number of shots in a bottle of (Scotch) whiskey..... ;-)

[ole gray]

Brother 18 years ago while stationed at Fort Sill (single at the time) I would walk 36 every Saturday and Sunday. We had two courses located on opposite ends of the installation. I'd play one, break for lunch then head out to the other for a second round. 54 was the most I ever played and that was carrying my bag the entire time. Three factors were at work; young, single and time!!!!!

 

 

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I hear ya partner!  Yep back in the no so painful days it was on like donkey kong. 

 

P.S.  Thank you for your service to our country!

[yungkory]

There are a few things that I'm a "purist" about and don't like change, but this isn't one of them. I'd welcome this change if it meant cheaper green fees would be a byproduct. My scores would probably be closer to par too -- that Hawaiian sun just destroys me and I'm dead after the front 9.

 

Also it might not be that hard on the facilities either -- just break the course up into 3 6-hole chunks rather than picking 12 holes and ignoring the others. Might take some finessing for a few clubs to match what is considered par across the 3 6's though.

[djahubes]

Brother 18 years ago while stationed at Fort Sill (single at the time) I would walk 36 every Saturday and Sunday. We had two courses located on opposite ends of the installation. I'd play one, break for lunch then head out to the other for a second round. 54 was the most I ever played and that was carrying my bag the entire time. Three factors were at work; young, single and time!!!!!

 

 

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I'm with you brother. When I was single in Monterey I played both bayonet and black horse every Saturday and Sunday. 72 holes, no time commitment, best golf for the best price, $72/mo unlimited. I'm lucky to get one round in a week now, and honestly wouldn't change it for anything. Spending time with my wife and son is the best thing going. I love the idea of 12 holes. If they could manage the GHIN so you could post and still have a legit index for the 18 hole rounds it could work!

 

 

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[Kanoito]

I got the same problem, except that my wife plays golf, too. Regardless, we want to play 18 as soon as possible to get home and spend time with the kids (which are being babysitted by grandma)

 

We wake up at 6am, shower, prepare kid's breakfast, eat, load the car and drive off around 7am. Arrive course at 7:20 and tee off at 7:30 without warming up. We usually have 1 or 2 friends join us, but we always finish between 11 and 11:30. Drive home and arrive just in time to cook lunch, spend the afternoon with the kids, shopping, etc.

 

The kids usually wake up around 9, so it's only 3 hours we are "missing".

[revkev]

I don't know about 12 though although that's an interesting concept -

 

I love 9 - nothing wrong with that - 9 holes of golf is better than none.

 

 

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[SteddyGolf]

Good discussion by most. I'll ask those who feel it necessary to attempt to make others feel inadequate, because of their views and or opinions, to restrain from making this topic or any topic of discussion personal. Please remember if you burn down your neighbors house it doesn't make yours any prettier. DJ warned me some folks come on this forum but for no other purpose than to be confrontational and often cross the line of respect. I ask everyone to maintain a measured level of professional decorum. We don't have to agree and as a matter of fact it's best when we do exchange differing view points. However, when doing so it is a lot more helpful, educational and enlightening when you refrain from sarcasm and cynicism.

 

Good times.

 

 

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[GB13]

I personally like the flower petal design of a course. Where 1 goes out 2 goes across and 3 comes back. I would do six petals and you could play 3,6,9,12,15, or 18 holes. This seems to make the most sense. 6 hole chunks would work too. I think we need to have less OB and time limits. There is one course I play at that the carts beep at you and then the ranger comes out and yells at you and tells you to speed it up. This helps pace of play. You will never have a round over 4 hours on this course.

[SteddyGolf]

I'm with you brother. When I was single in Monterey I played both bayonet and black horse every Saturday and Sunday. 72 holes, no time commitment, best golf for the best price, $72/mo unlimited. I'm lucky to get one round in a week now, and honestly wouldn't change it for anything. Spending time with my wife and son is the best thing going. I love the idea of 12 holes. If they could manage the GHIN so you could post and still have a legit index for the 18 hole rounds it could work!

 

 

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DJ you are the first to really read into the point of discussion. I should have been more specific in regards to the GHIN. All the other options recommended save time spent on the course but they don't help with maintaining an accurate handicap or even help with competitions amongst friends. I think the day you played with us at Coral Creek we were close to a 6 hour round of golf. Seemingly the last few holes take the longest because the senior groups who get the early tee times can, by no fault of their own, only move so fast. If we stopped at 12 holes we still would have clock a 4 hour round.

 

Incidentally, this morning I had Turtle Bay basically all to myself. No one in front and no one behind So I got a little creative. I played 12 holes as a test (played the last six after the test). I played all four par 5s and all four par 3s. The last four holes I selected based on the handicaps of the par 4s, essentially playing the easiest, the hardest and two middle handicap holes. I completed 12 holes in 90 minutes. I took my time and also hit two balls off the tee on every hole I used the driver (my ping cracked at the hosel so testing a couple replacements).

 

Today was a day off so I had time to burn. After 12 holes I actually had breakfast before heading back out for the final six. I felt amazing after 12. I wasn't tired, frustrated nor rushed.

 

In my original post I acknowledged there would be push back. I've enjoyed both points of view. Will the amount of holes to play a standard round of golf ever change? I am pretty darn sure it will not. Still I had to kind of chuckle at those who claim to be purists and traditionalist. I'm pretty sure they are playing with modern equipment which is not exactly pure nor traditional. Now if you showed up at ole Hole in the Tree Country Club sporting a leather bag full of hickory sticks with persimmon head clubs plus a Mashie to get out of the thick stuff then I'm all in on the purist argument.

 

 

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[silver & black]

I play golf for various reasons.

 

For the camaraderie.

 

For the singular expectation.

 

For the fun.

 

For the challenge.

 

For the self loathing (tongue in cheek)

 

Because I love the game!

 

When I was married, I played too much. Now that I'm divorced, I don't play enough. The game has been a hell and a blessing. I'm a glutton for punishment and pleasure. Golf gives both... in spades.

 

I relish my time on the course... with friends and alone. Time doesn't matter to me when I'm out there.

 

Having said all that.............. My kids are grown and on their own. I'm alone with my boys (dogs). I have a promising woman that I'm seeing.... and she knows about my golf obsession...lol. So.... I don't care about the time it takes me to play 18 holes. For me, it's therapy.