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People working at a golf course who shouldn’t be working there


Gg Owen

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Hahaha. Fun thread here . In the demeanor category I would say the pro that works at our local muni.He just hates people in general. Only time he acts like he wants to be there is when his superiors come for a round of golf. Besides that he is the most unfriendly human being I've met.

 

The other would be our assistant golf pro at our CC.An all around great chap who loves his job and people.Unfortunately his playing ability is very dismal and is a 90-100 shooter.He attended one of those golf management schools and was an intern first at our course.Loved the area and course so much, that he decided too stay on full time.Believe he has taken the player ability test over a dozen times and never even came close.He also teaches the game quite frequently .It is a little sad watching him demonstrate the swing too his students.Ive saw him top and chunk many a shot during his lessons.His goals are becoming a head pro one day and a reputable instructor as well. It's a shame that his game is the level it is. He is always practicing and plays a substantial amount

Keep it in the short stuff

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Kind of depends what type of course perhaps. I think I've seen it all at one course or another through my many years. Private club/courses usually seem to have better Professional staff on hand. Municipal courses have lesser qualified professional staff IMO and hangers-on types. Keep in mind that typically municipal courses are city owned-run- and operated and therefore the employees are government workers and a product of "the system". Most city governments shouldn't be in the golf business. But there are exceptions and I've witnessed them. 

 

Locally where I live our one and only municipal course is poorly run from top to bottom. I won't go into all the details. It's sad really that the city doesn't understand that when people visit the course the employees are representing the City. And not in a good way. They just don't get it.

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If you see a 'marshall' at a muni over the age of 50, chances are you'll find him napping under a good shade tree by mid-morning and cruising around in his cart searching for lost golf balls by lunch time. He won't bother moving the slow group along because he has to get back to the pro shop before they run out of coffee. We all know the guy is 'volunteering' at the course so he can get some free golf out of the deal, but come on, you aren't fooling anyone. 

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Kind of depends what type of course perhaps. I think I've seen it all at one course or another through my many years. Private club/courses usually seem to have better Professional staff on hand. Municipal courses have lesser qualified professional staff IMO and hangers-on types. Keep in mind that typically municipal courses are city owned-run- and operated and therefore the employees are government workers and a product of "the system". Most city governments shouldn't be in the golf business. But there are exceptions and I've witnessed them. 

 

Locally where I live our one and only municipal course is poorly run from top to bottom. I won't go into all the details. It's sad really that the city doesn't understand that when people visit the course the employees are representing the City. And not in a good way. They just don't get it.

One of those exceptions is my muni.  Although it is city-owned, the city contracts with a management firm to run the course, management and maintenance.  The people are great, for the most part.  It's one of the reasons my wife and I picked this course to play.  The pros don't sit in the pro shop all day; besides checking people in, they also play with members and give lessons.  The grounds crew is not great, but the super does keep them on their toes.  Right now, it's a struggle to keep the course green as the temps hit 105+ and some sprinklers are a little spotty.  Overall, the people are OK, and I consider myself lucky.

 

Our biggest issue is keeping decent help maintaining the carts.  This summer, the course has hired several young kids to clean, wash, and turn around carts.  One lasted one day.  They just don't want to work that hard.  Friday is one of our busiest days because the major business in the area is off every other Friday.  All carts are out for the morning wave of players and are returned before noon.  If the cart guys aren't there to turn them around, the cart return area is stacked up, and no carts are available for the afternoon wave.  I ended up running carts one day.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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If you see a "'arshall' at a muni over the age of 50, chances are you'll find him napping under a good shade tree by mid-morning and cruising around in his cart searching for lost golf balls by lunch time. He won't bother moving the slow group along because he has to get back to the pro shop before they run out of coffee. We all know the guy is 'volunteering' at the course so he can get some free golf out of the deal, but come on, you aren't fooling anyone. 

All of our marshals are over 50 60, but they do a reasonable job.  If marshals sit in their carts are do nothing, people see that and don't respect them if they get a visit.  However, if the marshals have a good attitude and work to keep all groups moving along, people get it.  Sure, there are the few bad groups, but so far, my course has done a pretty good job.  The biggest offenders of slow play is the Men's Club.  They are playing for quarters, and every hole is the US Open.  I always try to get a tee time ahead of them.  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Question would you go see a “Pro” with the last name Shanks for lessons?

Yeah, the pro at my clubs last name is Hack. He gets plenty of lessons....

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One of those exceptions is my muni. Although it is city-owned, the city contracts with a management firm to run the course, management and maintenance. The people are great, for the most part. It's one of the reasons my wife and I picked this course to play. The pros don't sit in the pro shop all day; besides checking people in, they also play with members and give lessons. The grounds crew is not great, but the super does keep them on their toes. Right now, it's a struggle to keep the course green as the temps hit 105+ and some sprinklers are a little spotty. Overall, the people are OK, and I consider myself lucky.

 

Our biggest issue is keeping decent help maintaining the carts. This summer, the course has hired several young kids to clean, wash, and turn around carts. One lasted one day. They just don't want to work that hard. Friday is one of our busiest days because the major business in the area is off every other Friday. All carts are out for the morning wave of players and are returned before noon. If the cart guys aren't there to turn them around, the cart return area is stacked up, and no carts are available for the afternoon wave. I ended up running carts one day.

Thanks for this post Kenny.

 

Not all muni's are run by the city--i know Plaid mentioned there are exceptions--my course like yours is one.

 

Matter of fact we won facility of the year last year in our company. Sure we're not perfect but our guest surveys average 95% satisfaction and our regular players love the job the Super is doing.

 

 

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Working in this type of career is so under appreciated.Most if not all shop workers : caddies : and grounds crews get paid a meager salary.We really need cutting them some slack.They have to deal with every facet of people on a daily basis.Be respectful too them and they will do the same in return.Its truly a dead end career being a full time golf course employee.Many courses work the staff 38 hours max so they don't offer any benefits.A tough way making a living.Heck, most big box retail employees and fast food workers are making more with actual benefits.Its one occupation that needs a complete pay structure reboot

 

I could only last a few weeks doing what many have done for years of service

Keep it in the short stuff

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All I can say is when you're paying people $12/hr to work, you're going to find job seekers not people looking for a career. Many are between jobs or just want something that gets them outside and some golf privileges. Young hot shots or young retirees who know everything and have difficulty taking direction from younger shop staff.

 

The golf business is a funny animal.

 

 

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Question would you go see a “Pro” with the last name Shanks for lessons?

I would come see you for a wedge lesson

 

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All I can say is when you're paying people $12/hr to work, you're going to find job seekers not people looking for a career. Many are between jobs or just want something that gets them outside and some golf privileges. Young hot shots or young retirees who know everything and have difficulty taking direction from younger shop staff.

The golf business is a funny animal.

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. Had a buddy that started the business.They told him first few year(s) were minimum wage.Than once he graduated a $5000 apprentice school the pay would skyrocket to $40k a year working 70 hr week salary.That is a complete joke of a wage.How can one even conceive of having a family with that.And than your a slave too the elite for meager pennies.This business is borderline slavery that was abolished long ago.Yet the golf business is ripe in the slave trade.Where in the world does all the money go that these courses make ?And please don't use that BS response of maintenance and upkeep.The business is a complete kick in the pants.One would have too be a complete idiot pursuing that career path

Keep it in the short stuff

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.The business is a complete kick in the pants.One would have too be a complete idiot pursuing that career path

I took the plunge and did it for 3 years.

 

Simple answer...for every kid slaving away in a shop there are two more with grand aspirations of being the next Bob Ford or Craig Harmon.

 

 

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This is a great thread and a personal pet peeve of mine on and off the Golf Course. It's simply a matter of applying what we all learned in kindergarten. Since the subject is the Golf Course I'll try to stay within these friendly (or unfriendly) confines.

 

It starts with organizational culture carried out by leadership. If you are in the people business you must care for that for which you exist........people! It must be about heart beats and not head counts. Everything we do should target the Golfer's experience. How you greet folks, how you anticipate their needs, how you solve challenges should always focus on the golfer's total experience. Whether you are at a Muni or a Private Club it is leaderships responsibility to ensure the values of the organization pervade the whole of all operations.

 

I could go on for hours. To keep this a quick read I'll just say this...... you hirer to a standard. You ensure everyone understands the standard and assist those who need help. Finally you identify those who are unwilling or unable to meet that standard early in their employment. You then shake their hand, thank them for trying and show them the door.

 

Culture is very powerful. If you build a strong organization culture based on the Golfers Total Experience the need for constant leadership engagement will decrease for your culture will not tolerate bad behavior.

 

As a consumer or Golfer I cannot control the behaviors of others but I can absolutely control my own. I maintain the power in all relationships by refusing to lower my standard. If someone is rude to me I simply raise my own kindness meter. It's really hard to be rude to folks that will not engage in your misery.

 

 

 

 

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. Had a buddy that started the business.They told him first few year(s) were minimum wage.Than once he graduated a $5000 apprentice school the pay would skyrocket to $40k a year working 70 hr week salary.That is a complete joke of a wage.How can one even conceive of having a family with that.And than your a slave too the elite for meager pennies.This business is borderline slavery that was abolished long ago.Yet the golf business is ripe in the slave trade.Where in the world does all the money go that these courses make ?And please don't use that BS response of maintenance and upkeep.The business is a complete kick in the pants.One would have too be a complete idiot pursuing that career path

I know people have different experiences.

 

But I think you need to bring the hysterics down a notch. Obtaining your PGA is equvillant to getting a bachelor's. And I know many college grads who take $35,000 to $45,000 jobs out of college. It's called entry level.

 

Not everyone can start as CEO at 24 making 7 figures.

 

So it's not the highest paying industry for most hourly personnel. But it's not worst than most hospitality and retial entry level jobs.

 

 

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I know people have different experiences.

 

But I think you need to bring the hysterics down a notch. Obtaining your PGA is equvillant to getting a bachelor's. And I know many college grads who take $35,000 to $45,000 jobs out of college. It's called entry level.

 

Not everyone can start as CEO at 24 making 7 figures.

 

So it's not the highest paying industry for most hourly personnel. But it's not worst than most hospitality and retial entry level jobs.

 

 

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my buddy already had a bachelors in business.That was how he was originally hired.And was a requirement in the job posting.In this business, a college degree from a 4 year institution.Along with apprentice school is almost an necessity.That is a little overkill for how little these folks get paid for long hours and no benefits.Besides free golf, big whoop there.Really feel bad for these folks

Keep it in the short stuff

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If I'm ever in your area I'll give you a ring. We will go play a round.

Absolutely!

 

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Well this thread really took new directions. Maybe Rob can help enlighten us on how they compensate their employees at his course. And also curious on where all these funds go that courses generate

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my buddy already had a bachelors in business.That was how he was originally hired.And was a requirement in the job posting.In this business, a college degree from a 4 year institution.Along with apprentice school is almost an necessity.That is a little overkill for how little these folks get paid for long hours and no benefits.Besides free golf, big whoop there.Really feel bad for these folks

 

The vast majority of people who go into this profession do so knowing full well what the pay and hours are. I have a friend who played the mini-tours and then became a club pro for a number of years. He loved the job, meeting people, being around golf, etc. He left because he wanted to raise a family and knew he couldn't do so on that salary & schedule. He had no regrets and still talks fondly of his time working in golf, and gives lessons occasionally just to keep helping others (and I've been a definite beneficiary of those lessons!).

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The people that go into the golf industry don't do it for the money. They do it because they enjoy it. They just love the game and want to be around more. It comes down to this question. Would you rather have more money being at a miserable job or would you rather have less money doing something you love?

 

P.S. It is amazing how these threads evolve.

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Question would you go see a “Pro” with the last name Shanks for lessons?

I would but not you because I'd walk out of the lesson playing blades.

 

 

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my buddy already had a bachelors in business.That was how he was originally hired.And was a requirement in the job posting.In this business, a college degree from a 4 year institution.Along with apprentice school is almost an necessity.That is a little overkill for how little these folks get paid for long hours and no benefits.Besides free golf, big whoop there.Really feel bad for these folks

I work in this business. And a bachelor's and PGA is hardly ever required. Many may have both. But I've seen plenty of Head Pros without bachelor's that make much more than $40,000 a year.

 

I've seen many assistants that have a good teaching book make that much. Sure there are still plenty who make minimum wage, which just went up over $11 an hour in our area. No, nobody is going to get rich on that, but most are doing it as a part time job for extra cash and playing privileges. Or retired guys doing it for the same reason.

 

Those of us at the course who are full time managers feel we are paid fairly and while we work hard, we are hardly slaves.

 

 

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I remember back in the mid 80's (golden era of golf).We had a starter that did it all.His job was cleaning the carts; storing and taking out carts in the am and pm;cart maintenance; and he was the first tee starter. This was an extremely busy muni with league play and tee times from 6am until 5:30 pm or later daily.The man was impeccable on his ability getting people off on time.Last I heard he passed away in the late 90's.Just one of those guys that did his job well and gave so much too this great game behind the scenes.This man literally did it all and never ever complained and greeted everyone with a smile and handshake before your round

Keep it in the short stuff

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I remember back in the mid 80's (golden era of golf).We had a starter that did it all.His job was cleaning the carts; storing and taking out carts in the am and pm;cart maintenance; and he was the first tee starter. This was an extremely busy muni with league play and tee times from 6am until 5:30 pm or later daily.The man was impeccable on his ability getting people off on time.Last I heard he passed away in the late 90's.Just one of those guys that did his job well and gave so much too this great game behind the scenes.This man literally did it all and never ever complained and greeted everyone with a smile and handshake before your round

On a similar but different note, I read an article in the last week or so, perhaps Golf Digest, about clubhouses.   It mentioned one longtime Clubhouse attendant who had been at the club for well over 30 years, and if he met you once, he always remembered your name and details about you.   In many cases, he took it upon himself to learn about every guests coming that day, and made sure and greeted them by name the minute they walked in the locker room, and showed them where he had everything prepared in their locker for the day complete with name plate and fully stocked.    People like that, have that something special and it's certainly more than a job to them. 

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I work in this business. And a bachelor's and PGA is hardly ever required. Many may have both. But I've seen plenty of Head Pros without bachelor's that make much more than $40,000 a year.

 

I've seen many assistants that have a good teaching book make that much. Sure there are still plenty who make minimum wage, which just went up over $11 an hour in our area. No, nobody is going to get rich on that, but most are doing it as a part time job for extra cash and playing privileges. Or retired guys doing it for the same reason.

 

Those of us at the course who are full time managers feel we are paid fairly and while we work hard, we are hardly slaves.

 

 

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Now this young man has the right attitude. He values his chosen profession and takes pride in what he does for a living. I'm guessing if you visited his golf activity that same attitude, values and beliefs are shared by many members of his organization.

 

I believe education level has very little to do with customer service. I work in the health care industry. This industry requires an above average education level. Believe me people skills doesn't come with that $500,000 education. While there definitely are folks who are innately nice people most of the time quality customer service comes from an organizational culture committed to the customer experience.

 

If you have a poor experience with say a “starter” or “Marshall” 9 times out of 10 you can follow that trail directly back to an ineffective leader or leaders. People may remember what you say. They could possibly remember what you do. They will always remember how you make them feel.

 

So if you have an issue with an individual at the Golf Course I recommend you go see the General Manager or Head Pro. If change is going to take place it must start with the leadership and their reinforcement of a healthy organizational culture.

 

 

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