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I've always got a chuckle out of people that say “my P6 needs work”.And yet they are a high handicap like me

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Keep it in the short stuff

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I've always got a chuckle out of people that say “my P6 needs work”.And yet they are a high handicap like me

ok, I'll bite. What's a “P6”?

 

 

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When I had more time, I tinkered with my swing constantly. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst.

 

This year, after 15 months of absolutely no golf, and only playing a couple of times in the 3 months before that, I made a drastic change. I went to the 4 Magic Moves golf swing, because I was getting effortless power and very straight shots. However, if I played more than 18 holes a week, my back hurt. It starts the downswing with a lateral hip slide and that accumulates to aggravate an old injury.

 

I was planning on sticking with this no matter what, thinking I could eventually adjust, but suddenly last Sunday morning, I arrived only 1/2 an hour before tee time, I could not get through the ball at all with that swing. I had played 36 holes the day before, and my back was killing me.

 

So, I changed my swing completely. Grip, takeaway, backswing, downswing, follow through. About the only thing I did was keep on the same clothes I put on that morning. After the first 18 holes one of my playing partners pointed out that he could tell I had tried 3 different swings during the round. Oddly enough, I played well enough to win a little money. This swing keeps me more stacked, and the body follows not leads. I do not get the same distance, but I am able to walk to the bathroom at night relatively pain free. This is a plus.

 

Luckily, I had been tinkering with this swing on short shots for a couple of weeks, because I was not happy with my full swing fundamentals with the wedges in certain situations. I was able to simply ramp up my partial wedge swing to a full swing. I'm happy with everything except the driver swing right now.

 

Strike that statement, after 27 holes today, I went to the range and worked with the driver a bit more, and may be happy with the driver swing now. I am happy that I had no serious back pain after playing today. I currently, don't even touch a club Monday thru Friday so it's kinda tough to work on my swing when not on the course.

 

Luckily, these guys only want to play for skins, not total score so I can try some different things especially if its obvious I'm not going to win the hole. We had 15 player this morning so only birdies or better was likely to win a skin. Well, today, I had 3 birdies and still didn't win a skin.

 

Who knows, I have considered using two entirely different swings. One for driver, and one for all the others. I decided to use the interlock grip with this swing and was using the overlap with the 4MM. This seems to aid me in not mixing and matching the swings. Although, I am not giving advise to do this.

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Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

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I have been playing for 20 years, was shouting in the low 90’s, took a classes over the winter for the first time. Never played or practice as much as I do now. My game went from the low 90 to about 106 to 110. I can’t keep the ball in play off the tee as my tee shots are going a mile left. I have not had a par in over 20 rounds when before I had 5 or 6 a round. I had a over the top swing before but I could hit some decent iron shots. After changing the swing, I can’t hit the green from 100 yards in. I knew that I was going to get worse before getting better but I didn’t think it was going to be this bad. I don’t know if I had the stamina to stick with the game especially since I can’t compete with guys I used to beat easily before. I don’t know if it is even possible to get to where I was before changing the swing, getting better from that point does even look like it is possible right now. The most frustrating part is that I am hitting the middle of the face more frequently but all that those is produce a hook that ends up in an unplayable or very difficult position to  recover from. 

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38 minutes ago, Tony Cayey said:

I have been playing for 20 years, was shouting in the low 90’s, took a classes over the winter for the first time. Never played or practice as much as I do now. My game went from the low 90 to about 106 to 110. I can’t keep the ball in play off the tee as my tee shots are going a mile left. I have not had a par in over 20 rounds when before I had 5 or 6 a round. I had a over the top swing before but I could hit some decent iron shots. After changing the swing, I can’t hit the green from 100 yards in. I knew that I was going to get worse before getting better but I didn’t think it was going to be this bad. I don’t know if I had the stamina to stick with the game especially since I can’t compete with guys I used to beat easily before. I don’t know if it is even possible to get to where I was before changing the swing, getting better from that point does even look like it is possible right now. The most frustrating part is that I am hitting the middle of the face more frequently but all that those is produce a hook that ends up in an unplayable or very difficult position to  recover from. 

Yeah, having a teacher put in the swing changes put us in a place where "new" bad things happen and we have no idea what caused it.   Very unsettling.  If we trust in to every being taught without knowing what it can do good or bad, we are lost.

Hopefully you can catch up with your teacher and get back on track.   Could be rectified easily. 

 

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Now you guys are scaring me. I have been dropping my handicap fairly quickly. Over 10 strokes in the last 10 months. I plan on lessons in the late fall and was waiting until I had a decent and consistent swing to do so. My before swing... well there was too many of them and I feel like I am now bringing a consistent swing to the course. Was hoping to refine things and get pointers on what I need to work on as I know I have some flaws. But not looking to get everything torn down and built back up. 


  • Driver: :ping-small: G410 Plus 9*, Tensei Orange 60X
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I am now 2 years into a swing change. Had to fix my pull hooks that always appeared at the worst moments. I got a pack of lessons and then just drills and Monte videos since then. The pro I worked with was good about drills to tweak rather than fully overhaul, but I still had a lot of fits and starts with my progress. Went from a 6 HC up to 11 and lost all confidence off the tee. I am finally shallowed out and playing better golf than ever (75 today with a clean card on the front!), but the driver still isn’t back to where it was on good days pre-change. The good news is my pull hooks are just about gone and I trust my swing even when I have less than my best. My goal was to get down to a 2-3 and I am not there yet, but I think it was worth it looking back. If you asked me 6 months ago though, I would have said something different!


Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash SZ 9* w/ Ventus Blue 6X 

Fairway:   :callaway-small: Epic Flash SZ 15* w/ Atmos Black 7X 

Hybrid: :titelist-small: 818H2 19* w/ Tensei White 90  

Irons: :cobra-small: King Forged CB w/ KBS $ Taper 130

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The short answer is YES!

 

But compare the swings of Matt Wolff vs Bryson DeChambeau. At first glance the two could not be more different, but at impact they are similar. They just take vastly different paths to get there. If they tried to copy each other than they would be making 10’s on par 5’s. Oh wait, Bryson just did that.

 

Bottom line is you have to reach impact as fast as possible and to get there you will have find the path that fits you.

 

You can get input from any source whether that is a coach or YouTube or TV or whatever, and take what works for you and forget the rest and practice. Absent a coach who can visually see what you are doing, you need to video your swing.

 

I wasted close to a year thinking I was grooving a “new golf swing” with no improvement, but the video showed after the first 2” of the swing it was the same as my old swing but not natural.

 

I am playing my best golf in years and hitting some of my longest drives of my life (at 56). And I have parts and pieces from probably hundreds of sources that I have recently put together that fit me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

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Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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Just my opinion, but golf instructors aren't any different from hitting / pitching instructors when it comes to baseball. I coached for years, and I constantly watched good, amateur players get discouraged when they went to highly recommended (or convenient) instructors and didn't improve - but got worse. Most instructors have a "philosophy" and that's what they stick with.  I would imagine it's the same with golf. Many times you can't blame the instructor.  Most of them learned their trade a certain way, and that's the way they teach to get their students to improve. Applying what they know, based on a different swing "philosophy", to a student's swing is hit or miss at best.  I would imagine the best amateur golf instructors have much in common with the better coaches in other sports.  They have enough general AND specific knowledge in all aspects (of the golf swing in this case) to first find out what might be causing issues in their new student's current swing and then go about fixing it.

Like someone else mentioned - in golf it's all about impact. How each golfer gets there can differ wildly.  But if they all get to impact in a good position, is one "Style" right or wrong over other?

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems that the big difference with golf is the amount of time that the vast majority of amateur golfers can / will spend on practice / improving their swing and how much free time that takes up versus actually playing golf.

Again, just my opinion, it seems that an open and honest conversation with a potential instructor, or maybe an initial, abbreviated lesson, would head off most issues.

A clear goal would also be of immense help.  I was picking the brain of a friend who was essentially a scratch golfer for years. He doesn't play all that much currently because of family responsibilities. I told him of my recent changes with my swing, experimenting etc - he told me that was fine. Everyone is different and certain things will work for one golfer that won't for another - then he point-blank asked me "What's your goal with golf?"

We were on the phone and I must have gotten quiet. He continued on and explained.  He said finding a SPECIFIC thing about my game / swing that I wanted to improve and work on that to give me a goal / target. I joked about wanting to shoot in the 70's consistently.  His immediate answer "Then ditch the driver, find a fairway wood or hybrid or iron you can consistently hit in the fairway. If possible hit tee shots that give you approach shots using the clubs you are most comfortable with. Then spend the rest of your time practicing your pitching, chipping, putting and scoring consistently from 100 yards in."

That's an approach to PURELY focusing on lowering scores. So I adjusted my actual goals, and got way more specific, after that conversation.

 

YMMV

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Bottom line is you have to reach impact as fast as possible and to get there you will have find the path that fits you.
 
Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
 


Let me correct this misstatement. You need the path that will let you reach impact with the club head accelerating as fast as possible on the right line and facing the right direction. No bonus points for just getting there fast.

I find that if I focus on the sequence of movement rather than the actual moves it works best for me.


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Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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10 minutes ago, RoverRick said:

Let me correct this misstatement. You need the path that will let you reach impact with the club head accelerating as fast as possible on the right line and facing the right direction. No bonus points for just getting there fast.

I find that if I focus on the sequence of movement rather than the actual moves it works best for me.

 

I'm going to pick a small nit here.  You want ALL of your acceleration to occur before you hit the ball.  You want to hit the ball with the clubhead going its maximum speed.  If you're accelerating at impact, your peak speed will occur after contact, and you'll be wasting some of that speed.  Of course the right FEEL to get there for many people is to accelerate through impact, that's a feel that minimizes the probability that you'll actually be slowing down before the ball.

For @Tony Cayey, are you following up on the instruction that you took over the winter?  Have you been back to see that instructor?  If you're consistently hitting the middle of the face, its quite possible that you've made a significant improvement, and that improvement has exposed a different fault in your swing.  Most players, including me at a 5 handicap, have multiple things we can do better.  The best way to change is to fix the single most important fault, through instruction, drills, and practice, and then move on to the next most important fault.  You may need some instruction to define the next change you need to make.

Another possibility is that you've partially fixed something, but are backsliding into some bad habits.  That's another possibility where a "check-up" with an instructor can be valuable.

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5 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm going to pick a small nit here.  You want ALL of your acceleration to occur before you hit the ball.  You want to hit the ball with the clubhead going its maximum speed.  If you're accelerating at impact, your peak speed will occur after contact, and you'll be wasting some of that speed.  Of course the right FEEL to get there for many people is to accelerate through impact, that's a feel that minimizes the probability that you'll actually be slowing down before the ball.

Bradley Hughes talk about this and says you your max speed is before you hit he ball you are actually slowing down and that there should just as much acceleration after impact as there was before.

 

 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Bradley Hughes talk about this and says you your max speed is before you hit he ball you are actually slowing down and that there should just as much acceleration after impact as there was before.

Huh?  If you are slowing down as you hit the ball, you are DEcellerating, and continue to decelerate through your follow through.  Do you have a reference for this?


:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Huh?  If you are slowing down as you hit the ball, you are DEcellerating, and continue to decelerate through your follow through.  Do you have a reference for this?

See edited post with link to a video 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

See edited post with link to a video 

I agree with him entirely.  At around 0:50 he says his INTENT is to accelerate through and beyond the ball, but goes on to say "obviously its not going to happen like that".  A feeling of continuing to accelerate is positive, it stops most players from DEcellerating..

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:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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Don’t want to thread jack here, and this is precisely part of the problem with taking lessons, differing opinions on what is actually happening during the swing and the “best” way to get there, but I said club head accelerating not reaching max speed.

Force = mass x acceleration

Not mass x speed but acceleration.

I often wondered about relationship between max speed and max acceleration in the golf swing and the effect of mass on it. I certainly do not have the time or equipment or, quite frankly, the skill to test this. I have some thoughts as related to putting on this but I am drifting far afield from the original intent.



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Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, RoverRick said:

Don’t want to thread jack here, and this is precisely part of the problem with taking lessons, differing opinions on what is actually happening during the swing and the “best” way to get there, but I said club head accelerating not reaching max speed.

Force = mass x acceleration

Not mass x speed but acceleration.

I often wondered about relationship between max speed and max acceleration in the golf swing and the effect of mass on it. I certainly do not have the time or equipment or, quite frankly, the skill to test this. I have some thoughts as related to putting on this but I am drifting far afield from the original intent.

Here's a simple relationship.  Maximum speed occurs when acceleration stops.  If something is accelerating, it is (by definition) increasing speed.  That's what acceleration is, increasing speed.  Kinetic energy, the energy available to be transmitted to something else, is 1/2 x mass x velocity squared.  With perfect conservation of energy, the kinetic energy of a clubhead immediately before impact is equal to the kinetic energy of the clubhead after impact (it always slows down due to impact) plus the kinetic energy of the ball after impact.  Clubhead speed not acceleration) is the primary variable in the kinetic energy of the clubhead, and the primary influence on the ball speed.  Here's a reference,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3362989/

  showing the proper kinematic sequence from K-Vest research.  Note that the clubhead speed (in yellow) is at a peak at impact, and decreases afterward.  Rotational velocity of other body parts peaks well before impact, first hips, then trunk, then arms.

And none of that makes the instruction in the video that @RickyBobby_PR linked any less valid.  He talks about his "intention" to accelerate well past the ball, to get the fastest part of his swing well past the ball.  That's a great image, a great feel for many many players.  

Edited by DaveP043
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:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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