2018 Official Forum Member Review - Arccos 360 w/ Caddie 2.0

[Har in the Hat]

any thought of contacting Arccos and finding out about this?

 

Thanks for the posts.

[Aotearoa_Brad]

Im 2 rounds in with my set of these and couldnt be happier! The caddie function is a game changer!

 

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[Alf. S]

Still in the middle of gathering data for my Stage 2 and thought I would add my thoughts on lost shots and false shots, The quick start guide gives a few tips to avoid the false shots being triggered, if you drop the club or bump two clubs together can trigger false shots. It looks like also if the green and next tee in close vicinity to each other (as Danbrook posted)  it can miss your drive. This is no different from Shot Scope in this respect which for different reason is not 100% accurate and gives false positive and negatives. I found  in the first couple of rounds trying to confirm and correct hole scores was a distraction from my golf and decided not to rely on accuracy of the stroke recording and now spend 5 minutes at the end of the round double checking the data and correcting it while the round is still fresh in your head. 

 

On Tournament mode I've used it a couple of times, it says it conforms to USGA tournament rules but  to feel comfortable using it I'm going to check the R&A site. You still get the Caddie view at the tee and the GPS satellite view of the hole gives you wind speed but not elevation. Also the Front Centre Back view no longer gives you the second set of numbers i.e. Plays like yardages.

 

After 12 rounds I've found the Data Analytics and Dashboard the most useful features and I'm using this to focus my practising. Personally the Caddie feature so far I'm not sold on, the main reason is that I won't rely on it 100% and because of this using it adds doubt on club selection into my head. For example playing a hole that has a 30 feet elevated green I usually take yardage to the back of the green and club to this, so it plays 10 to 15 yds longer and you are always better long than short. My head says PW, I pick out Arccos and it says AW. AW will get me there but if I hit it heavy it will be short and roll back down the hill 50yds. Doubt is a terrible thing. Also if you start to rely on it and then go into a tournament the Plays like feature is disabled so you have to work it out yourself from F-C-B data. 

 

 

Here is a question, what happens if you don't have a phone signal does the phone still gather data? I'm going to put my iPhone into Airplane mode the next time I'm out and check.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Still in the middle of gathering data for my Stage 2 and thought I would add my thoughts on lost shots and false shots, The quick start guide gives a few tips to avoid the false shots being triggered, if you drop the club or bump two clubs together can trigger false shots. It looks like also if the green and next tee in close vicinity to each other (as Danbrook posted) it can miss your drive. This is no different from Shot Scope in this respect which for different reason is not 100% accurate and gives false positive and negatives. I found in the first couple of rounds trying to confirm and correct hole scores was a distraction from my golf and decided not to rely on accuracy of the stroke recording and now spend 5 minutes at the end of the round double checking the data and correcting it while the round is still fresh in your head.

 

On Tournament mode I've used it a couple of times, it says it conforms to USGA tournament rules but to feel comfortable using it I'm going to check the R&A site. You still get the Caddie view at the tee and the GPS satellite view of the hole gives you wind speed but not elevation. Also the Front Centre Back view no longer gives you the second set of numbers i.e. Plays like yardages.

 

After 12 rounds I've found the Data Analytics and Dashboard the most useful features and I'm using this to focus my practising. Personally the Caddie feature so far I'm not sold on, the main reason is that I won't rely on it 100% and because of this using it adds doubt on club selection into my head. For example playing a hole that has a 30 feet elevated green I usually take yardage to the back of the green and club to this, so it plays 10 to 15 yds longer and you are always better long than short. My head says PW, I pick out Arccos and it says AW. AW will get me there but if I hit it heavy it will be short and roll back down the hill 50yds. Doubt is a terrible thing. Also if you start to rely on it and then go into a tournament the Plays like feature is disabled so you have to work it out yourself from F-C-B data.

 

 

Here is a question, what happens if you don't have a phone signal does the phone still gather data? I'm going to put my iPhone into Airplane mode the next time I'm out and check.

I use a older iPhone that doesn't have any service, as I found arccos misses a LOT more shots on Android. The only downside to a no service phone is no wind conditions other then that it works just as a phone with service. In regular mode the caddie still functions as normal and you still get all your F - M - B yardages along with club suggestions. At least those are the only differences I found between service and no service devices.

Side note I've emailed arccos on a few different issues/course updates and I don't think I've ever had better customer service. Responses have almost always been same day if not hours after. That and the few courses which needed to be updated only took a few hours to do.

[palvord]

any thought of contacting Arccos and finding out about this?

 

Thanks for the posts.

I'm in an email conversation now with Arccos to try and find out why this happens.

 

 

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[palvord]

I found in the first couple of rounds trying to confirm and correct hole scores was a distraction from my golf and decided not to rely on accuracy of the stroke recording and now spend 5 minutes at the end of the round double checking the data and correcting it while the round is still fresh in your head.

I 100% agree that confirming and correcting the data hole to hole is distracting. I too have done the method of double checking everything after the round, but at that point it is no different than my stat tracking I was doing at the start of this season.

 

So far I haven't registered a false shot. All of my struggles come from a shot not being triggered. I have played entire holes with no shot being triggered. I'll keep everyone posted with what Arccos says.

 

 

 

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[palvord]

I use a older iPhone that doesn't have any service, as I found arccos misses a LOT more shots on Android. The only downside to a no service phone is no wind conditions other then that it works just as a phone with service. In regular mode the caddie still functions as normal and you still get all your F - M - B yardages along with club suggestions. At least those are the only differences I found between service and no service devices.

Side note I've emailed arccos on a few different issues/course updates and I don't think I've ever had better customer service. Responses have almost always been same day if not hours after. That and the few courses which needed to be updated only took a few hours to do.

I agree that their customer service is very responsive. It is nice to see that still matters and is thought of by companies.

 

 

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[oaks]

Customer Service was excellent.  

 

I think I am in a different camp.  The times that I have played with the Arccos system - I put the phone in my pocket and didn't look at it once...  hmm.

[palvord]

Customer Service was excellent.

 

I think I am in a different camp. The times that I have played with the Arccos system - I put the phone in my pocket and didn't look at it once... hmm.

I would like that to be the way that I use the system. Just take the phone out to check distances and then back in the pocket. I'm hoping to solve the technical problems and get to the nitty gritty of my golf problems.

 

 

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[oaks]

I would like that to be the way that I use the system. Just take the phone out to check distances and then back in the pocket. I'm hoping to solve the technical problems and get to the nitty gritty of my golf problems.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

I think that I am looking at it for more of the analytics and less for distances, etc (unless it is a club that I haven't played before) I have a range finder.  I want to see where I can get better with the data!

[palvord]

I think that I am looking at it for more of the analytics and less for distances, etc (unless it is a club that I haven't played before) I have a range finder. I want to see where I can get better with the data!

I agree. Getting that data matters. I am hoping that I can solve my technical issues so I am recording the proper data to tackle the analytics.

 

 

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[GB13]

I am curious about the caddie. Can one of you play 9 holes using just the caddie recommendations and see if it helps or hurts your game?

[Alf. S]

I am curious about the caddie. Can one of you play 9 holes using just the caddie recommendations and see if it helps or hurts your game?

Next bounce game I'll use it for 8 (8 gets you back to the clubhouse) and let you know.

 

But the big variable is my game!

[GB13]

Next bounce game I'll use it for 8 (8 gets you back to the clubhouse) and let you know.

 

But the big variable is my game!

Thanks!

It is touted as knowing your game better than you do, so I am curious if it acually can make better recommendations than the way you would normally play that hole.

[palvord]

I am curious about the caddie. Can one of you play 9 holes using just the caddie recommendations and see if it helps or hurts your game?

Absolutely. That for sure is going to be part of my testing to see if Arccos helps my scoring.

 

 

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[Alf. S]

Thanks!

It is touted as knowing your game better than you do, so I am curious if it acually can make better recommendations than the way you would normally play that hole.

 

I think knowing your game better than you do is a bit too far. One data point that it has shown is that I hit my 6i longer than my 5i. Playing the 1st at my home course it recommended I hit a 6i for my 2nd shot which was 182 yards which would be a 5i for me normally. Middled the 6i on to the fringe at the back 206 yds.

[Har in the Hat]

Im 2 rounds in with my set of these and couldnt be happier! The caddie function is a game changer!

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using MyGolfSpy mobile app

that's great to hear Brad.

is it because of the Caddie feature or something else?

[Har in the Hat]

I think that I am looking at it for more of the analytics and less for distances, etc (unless it is a club that I haven't played before) I have a range finder.  I want to see where I can get better with the data!

 

2 definite uses for this.

 

I assume the analytics is the main purpose of Arccos with the added benefit of on course distances?

[Har in the Hat]

And by the way, great posts. I am enjoying reading your views.

☺☺

[Wedgie]

Really nice job everyone and a great start.  I really liked using Arccos but it missed too many of my putts so I dropped it.  Are you guys having the same issue or is there a trick that may help with this?  I also need cheaters to read my phone but don't play with them on so it was on/off on/off with the glasses trying to keep up with the shots and putts.  Once I got sick of doing that I just left my phone in my pocket and it would miss about 10-15 shots per round.  If accuracy has improved I'd love to put them back in play.

[palvord]

Really nice job everyone and a great start. I really liked using Arccos but it missed too many of my putts so I dropped it. Are you guys having the same issue or is there a trick that may help with this? I also need cheaters to read my phone but don't play with them on so it was on/off on/off with the glasses trying to keep up with the shots and putts. Once I got sick of doing that I just left my phone in my pocket and it would miss about 10-15 shots per round. If accuracy has improved I'd love to put them back in play.

Thanks for the compliment and the questions.

 

For me, currently the missed shots are about 10-15 per round. I'm trying to find out the issues and solve them, but I get how frustrating it is. My missed shots are anywhere from a putt to a drive and everything in between. I really want my data collected to be accurate so I know what parts of my game to work at and improve.

 

 

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[Alf. S]

Really nice job everyone and a great start.  I really liked using Arccos but it missed too many of my putts so I dropped it.  Are you guys having the same issue or is there a trick that may help with this?  I also need cheaters to read my phone but don't play with them on so it was on/off on/off with the glasses trying to keep up with the shots and putts.  Once I got sick of doing that I just left my phone in my pocket and it would miss about 10-15 shots per round.  If accuracy has improved I'd love to put them back in play.

 

Yes I'm seeing it missing putts but it is mostly the short ones which I'm putting down to me not giving it a chance to register the stroke i.e they recommend for tap ins you hold for 1 sec before you hole the putt. I remain to be convinced on this but I am going to experiment over the coming weeks.

[Alf. S]

I think knowing your game better than you do is a bit too far. One data point that it has shown is that I hit my 6i longer than my 5i. Playing the 1st at my home course it recommended I hit a 6i for my 2nd shot which was 182 yards which would be a 5i for me normally. Middled the 6i on to the fringe at the back 206 yds.

 

Played the 8 holes 

 

1st hole recommended 8i at 154yds into the green with 12mph wind hurting 

 

 

Looking at this shot I would have normal taken my 7i which would give me 170 - hurting wind which would give me 160yds. Hit the 8i and ended with GIR but right at the front i.e. under clubed.

 

Next hole slightly down wind predicted my Drive pretty well then but over clubed on the approach 122yds downwind would have been 52'  wedge but recommended my 48' AW

 

The one hole I did have fun at is the 8th, it recommended driver (which I never hit) because it is such a high risk shot. The picture on the right is what you have to carry. I gave it a rip and ended green high but with limited swing. Bogied the hole it had predicted 3.8.

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty much that was the story of the 8 holes. For me and with the wind conditions today it wasn't accurate enough, maybe guys with a lower ball flight might have better results.  If you know your game which the Analytics will help with then I would rather rely on my judgement and experience.

 

More to follow in my full review

[GB13]

Played the 8 holes

 

1st hole recommended 8i at 154yds into the green with 12mph wind hurting

 

hole 1.png

 

Looking at this shot I would have normal taken my 7i which would give me 170 - hurting wind which would give me 160yds. Hit the 8i and ended with GIR but right at the front i.e. under clubed.

 

Next hole slightly down wind predicted my Drive pretty well then but over clubed on the approach 122yds downwind would have been 52' wedge but recommended my 48' AW

 

The one hole I did have fun at is the 8th, it recommended driver (which I never hit) because it is such a high risk shot. The picture on the right is what you have to carry. I gave it a rip and ended green high but with limited swing. Bogied the hole it had predicted 3.8.

 

combined 8.PNG

 

 

combined 8.PNG

 

Pretty much that was the story of the 8 holes. For me and with the wind conditions today it wasn't accurate enough, maybe guys with a lower ball flight might have better results. If you know your game which the Analytics will help with then I would rather rely on my judgement and experience.

 

More to follow in my full review

Thanks. This is an interesting experiment. Clearly the Caddie feature needs some work but it sounds like it is fairly close on most shots. Do you think the inconsistent recommendations are a factor of not having enough shots in the database or a flaw in programming?

[Alf. S]

Thanks. This is an interesting experiment. Clearly the Caddie feature needs some work but it sounds like it is fairly close on most shots. Do you think the inconsistent recommendations are a factor of not having enough shots in the database or a flaw in programming?

 

On a calm day it may be more accurate, today the size of error was about 10yds which in my case is one club out. 

 

Without working for Arccos and know how they work out the distances it is difficult to give a call between Algorithm/programme or data.

 

It is a difficult problem to solve based on limited real time input data, in the case of the first 2 holes they are trying to predict how far a ball will travel when hit by a 12mph wind at a 30' angle on the assumption on this particular day the golfer is hitting the ball his/her average distance. Oh and local holes conditions may also affect the shot i.e I have no idea where they measure the wind speed but the first 2 holes are on top of the hill so pretty exposed. 

 

If it based it's recommendations on some sort of look up table maybe as it gathers more data it will get better a club prediction. 

 

At the moment the limited data and my subjective view is I will stick to working my clubing out in my head. I've been using Arccos now for 12 rounds maybe a more objective  test would be to be able to save my stats on approach shots  and purely use the Caddie for the next 12 and see if there as a statistical difference. But I'm not going to do that!

 

 

 

I think it is going to be a "Marmite" feature i.e. you either love it or hate it.

[palvord]

Update on interactions with Arccos customer service. My last email to them was on August 24th and I haven't heard anything back as we are trying to figure out the potential causes for missed shots. They did say they will be sending me a new putter sensor to see if that improves the missed putts.

 

 

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[THEZIPR23]

As fair warning to anyone using Arccos in a tournament, I would suggest not. I spoke to Arccos regarding the tournament mode and they say it conforms to USGA rules, however in my using of the system it did not. The problem is that it shows the wind. Arccos claims that it is a loophole in the rules that allows them to show the wind at the time the app is starting and if it doesn't change then it is not a violation of the rule. (great loophole honestly). But it was my experience that the app continued to update the wind periodically, and thus is non conforming. Granted it would take an investigation by the tournament director to decipher this, however to me it wasn't worth the chance and so I don't use it for tourneys.

[Alf. S]

As fair warning to anyone using Arccos in a tournament, I would suggest not. I spoke to Arccos regarding the tournament mode and they say it conforms to USGA rules, however in my using of the system it did not. The problem is that it shows the wind. Arccos claims that it is a loophole in the rules that allows them to show the wind at the time the app is starting and if it doesn't change then it is not a violation of the rule. (great loophole honestly). But it was my experience that the app continued to update the wind periodically, and thus is non conforming. Granted it would take an investigation by the tournament director to decipher this, however to me it wasn't worth the chance and so I don't use it for tourneys.

 

This is the reply I received from Arccos on the subject. Worth going through the USGA letter

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please see the link below which explains our conformity with the USGA (note, this does not apply to ALL local rulings):

https://www.arccosgolf.com/blogs/community/arccos-caddie-now-permitted-under-the-rules-of-golf

Although there is wind in tournament mode, it is pre-set data and does not adjust as you play. It was all accessible before the round, therefore it is permitted. In other words, the wind you see is exactly the speed it was when you downloaded the course and started the round.

The caddie feature can still be used for club suggestions off the tee as any human caddie would be able to do during a tournament.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've contacted the R&A about the same issue will keep you posted.

[Nunfa0]

Excellent job so far alfs, love the brave use of the caddie and the great info about the wind in tournament mode.

[russtopherb]

Update on interactions with Arccos customer service. My last email to them was on August 24th and I haven't heard anything back as we are trying to figure out the potential causes for missed shots. They did say they will be sending me a new putter sensor to see if that improves the missed putts.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Hmmmmm it's been a week. Might be worth giving them a nudge, but you'd also think that they'd want to keep you updated on progress.