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Sluggo42

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Here's where experience is paying off.

Not saying this is a done deal, not by a long shot. KC is a great team. But the Pats haven't let them get anything going so far and they're getting to Mahomes. If they can keep that up in the second half... 

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So upset for the Saints. Littleton got away with two helmet-to-helmet hits early in the game, pass-interference wasn’t called on the Ted Ginn play, and then the two no calls on the one play at the end. Officials truly cost the Saints the win. Sad. You’re a professional referee! Sucks. Two years in-a-row they get heartbreak. Dang.


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Kickers aren’t losing games today...

Rams kicker would have made a 70 yarder with that last one

 

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Crazy games today

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WOOHOO...WOOOOOOHOOOOO....WOOOOHOOO

IN TOM WE TRUST!!

 

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Hate the Pats, but I don’t see the Rams hanging in there with them, especially with Gurley hurting

 

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1 hour ago, NiftyNiblick said:

I suppose that if you didn't have a dog in this fight, it was an exciting game.

Even winning, it was four hours of misery for me.

Can't we have an easy one once in a while?

 

No, we can't.  I don't know about you but I can always envision at least ten ways we could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, even with Brady.

 

 

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7 hours ago, 00sportsman said:

No, we can't.  I don't know about you but I can always envision at least ten ways we could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, even with Brady.

 

 

We got a break on the cheesie roughing call, but they held Gronk all day and it was never called.

As a matter of fact, the PI calls on Jackson, legit as they were, were the only PIs called in either game.

The end zone interception in the first half was a horror.  I never felt comfortable again until the game was over.

I know nothing about the Rams, but Super Bowl wins over the Rams would be a good way to bookend the dynasty.

 

Gronk is only 30 and it looks like he plans to retire. He's physically beat up, but had a great game. One more, Gronk.

I'd love to see Brady win and retire.  It's horrible to see the gods of the game stay one season too many.

With this game, Brady will have been in the Super Bowl more times in his career than he's missed it. It's time to put the cherry on top of the sundae and then enjoy life.

As for the Chiefs, Mahomes is the real deal.  He is finally the replacement for Lenny Dawson that the washed up Joe Montana wasn't.  If they manage the cap and their roster the way the Pats have done, the Chiefs could have a nice run in their own right. They're a class franchise historically, going back to their beginnings in Dallas at the start of the old  AFL

OK. Two weeks of hype to get through, and then we'll see what happens.  Let's do this thing, Pats.  I want to spend my remaining few years concentrating on the Red Sox.  But first, one more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm not the biggest NFL fan.  Haven't watched a regular season game is so many years, I've lost count.  That shouldn't imply that I don't know the game.  I was impressed with Tony Romo calling virtually every play New England ran in the 4th quarter and overtime. So much so, I can't understand why Kansas City didn't adjust it's 3rd down coverage given New England ran the exact same 3rd down play every time they had the football.  New England victimized the 2-deep look on 3rd down.

Have to respect what Tom Brady has been able to accomplish in his career.  This is his 9th Super Bowl appearance, 5th in 8 years and 4th in 5 years.  He's damn near approaching Bill Russell territory and he's doing it at a time when his career should be slowing down if not coming to an abrupt end.

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Just great games - too bad about the officiating but it’s becoming a habit - week in, week out - it tells me the players are too big and fast for the game to be properly officiated.

The simple solution is to have someone reviewing everything in the booth - no more coaches challenges only booth reviews. There’s so much down time in football anyway (more than any sport including baseball) that it would be simple.

Also I hate the OT rule - both teams should have a crack with the ball. If the first teams scores a TD and kicks the point the second must go for 2 should they score. Something felt wrong about KC never having the ball.


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4 hours ago, revkev said:

Just great games - too bad about the officiating but it’s becoming a habit - week in, week out - it tells me the players are too big and fast for the game to be properly officiated.

The simple solution is to have someone reviewing everything in the booth - no more coaches challenges only booth reviews. There’s so much down time in football anyway (more than any sport including baseball) that it would be simple.

Also I hate the OT rule - both teams should have a crack with the ball. If the first teams scores a TD and kicks the point the second must go for 2 should they score. Something felt wrong about KC never having the ball.


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100% agree. I like the way college football does overtime. Both teams get the ball and it become a bunch of mini games as opposed to the winner more often than not being decided by the coin flip. It just didn't seem fair to KC. 

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Let me preface this by saying I didn't really have a rooting interest either way....

If KC wanted to get a chance with the ball, they should've stopped the Patriots. They got a chance and the defense didn't step up. In NFL overtime, it's actually quite rare that the first team to receive scores a touchdown so there's plenty to be said that NE went out and earned that victory.

The college OT can drag on and on and on. That's great and all for drama, but now you're really opening yourself up to increased risk of injury. That would be headed in the total opposite direction of player safety the NFL has been pushing. 

The current method is pretty darn close to the best you'll get. 

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Also I hate the OT rule - both teams should have a crack with the ball. If the first teams scores a TD and kicks the point the second must go for 2 should they score. Something felt wrong about KC never having the ball.


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Couldn't agree more. Imo, the NFL has the worst rules when it comes to overtime. There needs to be a new format for playoff games or something. A coin flip shouldn't decide a conference championship game.

I think it needs to be changed to one extra, full length quarter and if it is still tied after that one OT quarter, then do a sudden death.

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12 hours ago, revkev said:

Just great games - too bad about the officiating but it’s becoming a habit - week in, week out - it tells me the players are too big and fast for the game to be properly officiated.

The simple solution is to have someone reviewing everything in the booth - no more coaches challenges only booth reviews. There’s so much down time in football anyway (more than any sport including baseball) that it would be simple.

Also I hate the OT rule - both teams should have a crack with the ball. If the first teams scores a TD and kicks the point the second must go for 2 should they score. Something felt wrong about KC never having the ball.


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I can attest to the game becoming too fast for middle-aged men who may not be in great shape to officiate.  I refereed various sports for many years beginning in college.  I could earn money while going to school without having to get a real job.  Evidently, I was pretty good at it because I was asked to officiate Oak Hill Academy basketball games often.

As I got older, I just simply couldn't keep up.  I felt I was constantly out of position and quit about 6 years ago.  The speed at which those kids play is amazing and it doesn't hold a candle to the speed at which an NFL game is played.

The other thing to consider is replay.  Any time we become reliant on new forms of technology, it comes at a price.  In my opinion, replay is eroding officiating.  Officials know "big brother" is watching over their shoulder.  Subconsciously, they become reliant which ultimately takes away from the skill they once had.

The NFL overtime rule is astonishingly bad!

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I disagree about the offiacting. The official that should have made the call for PI against the Rams was right there, in the correct position, he just didn’t throw the flag, which made no sense. 

Overtime rules have always been bad in the NFL. If you don’t want to have an extended overtime, then change something in the game itself, maybe make the rule that if a touchdown is scored in the 4th quarter you must attempt a 2 pt conversion or something like that. Then it’s possible to keep overtime from happening, which means that player safety is addressed, and you will most likely get a winner in regulation time. 

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9 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

I disagree about the offiacting. The official that should have made the call for PI against the Rams was right there, in the correct position, he just didn’t throw the flag, which made no sense. 

I saw that too, and there's a clip floating around now that shows him waving off another official that came over (presumably to challenge the call). The thing of it is, you have to be careful about how reliant you want to be on technology. Forget how it may or may not impact the speed of the game. Let's just look at how slow motion HD video has impacted professional golf. Guys were being penalized for things that you'd never see otherwise. I think the smartest thing they can do for review is allow it on PI calls and maybe a few other situations, but they have to review it at normal speed. If they can't see an infraction at normal speed then it didn't happen (even if the broadcasters still show the rest of us the slow-mo with evidence to the contrary). 

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2 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

I disagree about the offiacting. The official that should have made the call for PI against the Rams was right there, in the correct position, he just didn’t throw the flag, which made no sense. 

Overtime rules have always been bad in the NFL. If you don’t want to have an extended overtime, then change something in the game itself, maybe make the rule that if a touchdown is scored in the 4th quarter you must attempt a 2 pt conversion or something like that. Then it’s possible to keep overtime from happening, which means that player safety is addressed, and you will most likely get a winner in regulation time. 

Unless you've done it, I'm not sure you can fully appreciate the difficulty.  Being in position is only one part of the equation.  The eyes can't move and register whats being seen given the speed of the modern game.  Given the play in question, the side judge is responsible for everything happening in the quadrant of the field between the numbers and sideline extending from the downfield side of the line of scrimmage all the way to the goal line.  Not just the two players involved in the play.  He must position himself to make a boundary call (out or in bounds) and also be in position to make a call on a potential touchdown.  In the linked video, the referee responsible isn't even in view of the camera until the play is over.  Was he really "right there"?  Given the angle at which the side judge is viewing the play, he cannot possibly determine where the football is in relation to when contact is made.  He is trailing the play to make a boundary/touchdown call.

 

It was a terrible no-call.  Nobody disputes that.  But given the speed of the game and the side judges responsibilities at that spot on the field, he was not in position to make that call where the play happened.  He was in prime position to make a boundary call or touchdown call, however.  

Positioning is a nuance of officiating rarely understood by anyone who hasn't done it.  I'm not defending the guy, I'm stating something needs to change to help officials do a better job.  The speed of the game is making it impossible right now.

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2 hours ago, sixcat said:

Unless you've done it, I'm not sure you can fully appreciate the difficulty.  Being in position is only one part of the equation.  The eyes can't move and register whats being seen given the speed of the modern game.  Given the play in question, the side judge is responsible for everything happening in the quadrant of the field between the numbers and sideline extending from the downfield side of the line of scrimmage all the way to the goal line.  Not just the two players involved in the play.  He must position himself to make a boundary call (out or in bounds) and also be in position to make a call on a potential touchdown.  In the linked video, the referee responsible isn't even in view of the camera until the play is over.  Was he really "right there"?  Given the angle at which the side judge is viewing the play, he cannot possibly determine where the football is in relation to when contact is made.  He is trailing the play to make a boundary/touchdown call.

 

It was a terrible no-call.  Nobody disputes that.  But given the speed of the game and the side judges responsibilities at that spot on the field, he was not in position to make that call where the play happened.  He was in prime position to make a boundary call or touchdown call, however.  

Positioning is a nuance of officiating rarely understood by anyone who hasn't done it.  I'm not defending the guy, I'm stating something needs to change to help officials do a better job.  The speed of the game is making it impossible right now.

He is 5 -7 yards away from where the play happened. The play happened at the 7 yards line, and he is at about the 2 yard line with the play right in front of him with no obstruction. This was one of the easiest PI calls that happened the entire season. Are there times where officials are not in position and make a bad call or don’t make a call, yes. This was not one of those times. They need to allow for some of these plays to be challenged. I like the way college does the replay, every play gets looked at, if the replay official sees something, then play is stopped to review. In this case it would have taken very little time to make the correct call. That’s what we are all wanting in the end, just make the correct call. 

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34 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

He is 5 -7 yards away from where the play happened. The play happened at the 7 yards line, and he is at about the 2 yard line with the play right in front of him with no obstruction. This was one of the easiest PI calls that happened the entire season. Are there times where officials are not in position and make a bad call or don’t make a call, yes. This was not one of those times. They need to allow for some of these plays to be challenged. I like the way college does the replay, every play gets looked at, if the replay official sees something, then play is stopped to review. In this case it would have taken very little time to make the correct call. That’s what we are all wanting in the end, just make the correct call. 

Actually, he is on the goal line because he is responsible for that call should the result of the play reach the area of the goal line.  Your eyes, as a fan, are fixated on he ball.  His eyes are rarely ever fixated on the ball nor should they be.  He is responsible for the quadrant of the field between the numbers and the sideline from the end zone to the line of scrimmage.

It's easy for you to see as the play develops.  It isn't so easy when you're responsible for a third of the field and 22 players.  Which is why I suggest the speed of the game is negatively affecting officiating.

I'm not trying to argue with you.  You seem to have your mind made up so I will not respond further.  But I doubt you've ever actually experienced it first hand.

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5 hours ago, sixcat said:

Actually, he is on the goal line because he is responsible for that call should the result of the play reach the area of the goal line.  Your eyes, as a fan, are fixated on he ball.  His eyes are rarely ever fixated on the ball nor should they be.  He is responsible for the quadrant of the field between the numbers and the sideline from the end zone to the line of scrimmage.

It's easy for you to see as the play develops.  It isn't so easy when you're responsible for a third of the field and 22 players.  Which is why I suggest the speed of the game is negatively affecting officiating.

I'm not trying to argue with you.  You seem to have your mind made up so I will not respond further.  But I doubt you've ever actually experienced it first hand.

I have been involved in sports for most of my life, I am not just some guy who knows nothing about it. You don’t have to be part of a officiating to crew to understand the responsibilities of a referee.l in any sport.  He is responsible for the play that it is in his 1/3 of the field as you put it. The play is in his third of the field. He was watching the play and failed at his responsibility. He was in the correct position and just failed to make the call. I never said that officiating was easy, or that there isn’t other responsibilities for each one, I said this official was right there watching, and he was as I said 5-7 yards away, He just simply blew his responsibility on that play, it happens in the game, but should never ever happen in a championship game. 

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Let me preface this by saying I didn't really have a rooting interest either way....
If KC wanted to get a chance with the ball, they should've stopped the Patriots. They got a chance and the defense didn't step up. In NFL overtime, it's actually quite rare that the first team to receive scores a touchdown so there's plenty to be said that NE went out and earned that victory.
The college OT can drag on and on and on. That's great and all for drama, but now you're really opening yourself up to increased risk of injury. That would be headed in the total opposite direction of player safety the NFL has been pushing. 
The current method is pretty darn close to the best you'll get. 


I want to be clear that I’m not advocating the college OT system - in my scenario New England would have kicked off and KC had a chance to score a TD and win by going for 2. In this way all 3 parts of each team would have had an opportunity to decide the game in OT. Regardless I greatly prefer the NFL OT system to college and KC knew the rules - I think my way would be an improvement over what is already very good

I think everything about college football is contrived and stupid except having a review official in the booth - that insures that all plays are looked at - it’s really not that hard. Given the amount of money at stake it just makes sense.


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12 hours ago, revkev said:

 


I want to be clear that I’m not advocating the college OT system - in my scenario New England would have kicked off and KC had a chance to score a TD and win by going for 2. In this way all 3 parts of each team would have had an opportunity to decide the game in OT. Regardless I greatly prefer the NFL OT system to college and KC knew the rules - I think my way would be an improvement over what is already very good

I think everything about college football is contrived and stupid except having a review official in the booth - that insures that all plays are looked at - it’s really not that hard. Given the amount of money at stake it just makes sense.


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One thing folks may be overlooking is that the finish of the game could have gone the other way had NE not won the coin toss.

That being said - I agree with Stud - since implementing the "win only by a TD" rule in overtime it is rare that this happens and presents a serious challenge to the team with the ball.

I'm not sure you can do much better than that.  I think that the team getting possession first should be able to win the game and I agree with the rule change that a field goal is much too easy.

I suppose if there was one tiny change to be made it would be to forgo the kickoff and have the team start at the 35 yard line....that leaves 65 yards ahead of them, which in the league today is typically quite a challenge.

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On 1/21/2019 at 6:12 PM, revkev said:



Also I hate the OT rule - both teams should have a crack with the ball. If the first teams scores a TD and kicks the point the second must go for 2 should they score. Something felt wrong about KC never having the ball.


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Totally disagree about the overtime.

Regular season games should end in ties and not have overtime at all.; that's for all TIMED sports...all team sports except baseball, essentially.  I suppose cricket, too, but none of us are talking about that.

As for playoff games, I say go back to sudden death,  even with just field goals the way it was.

You had sixty minutes of playing time to win the game with fair rules.

If you didn't win then, "fair" legitimately comes off the table.

Having any chance to win at all is at that point fair enough.  If you want the ball, don't let your opponent who won the coin toss score with their first possession. Cover your kickoff well, and get a three and out.  Otherwise watch the field goal or whatever and have a miserable off-season.  It's part of the game. There should be some consequence for not winning in regulation.

That's why I hate wildcards, too.  There should also be some consequence for not winning your division.  I'm a super purist that way.

Copying college football is the worst thing that they could do. Nothing is more corrupt or disgusting that FBS level college football--except, maybe, for college basketball.  I kind of like the idea of going to school for an academic education.

But I shouldn't be bothering you guys. The important things that I really want to vent about, I can't vent about here!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by NiftyNiblick

 

 

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 10:09 AM, GolfSpy Stroker said:

One thing folks may be overlooking is that the finish of the game could have gone the other way had NE not won the coin toss.

That being said - I agree with Stud - since implementing the "win only by a TD" rule in overtime it is rare that this happens and presents a serious challenge to the team with the ball.

I'm not sure you can do much better than that.  I think that the team getting possession first should be able to win the game and I agree with the rule change that a field goal is much too easy.

I suppose if there was one tiny change to be made it would be to forgo the kickoff and have the team start at the 35 yard line....that leaves 65 yards ahead of them, which in the league today is typically quite a challenge.

Actually the rules have changed significantly from the original inception of OT as a way of settling ties.  The NFL did an admirable job of acknowledging this be eliminating the FG win rule - The rules favor the offense and kickers now make a high percentage of kicks from over 50 yards. 

But the rules still favor the offense. 

So my question would be - what is the negative to having each team possess the ball at least once in OT?  Clearly KC's Offense is a superior unit to its defense - yes they could have stopped New England but they had tied the game because of that offensive superiority - New England won the game because it got an extra possession through a coin flip.  How is that different from a blown call in the Rams/Saints game? 

 

Two great games decided by the luck of the draw - both situations preventable by tweaking the rules.

 

So again help me with the down side to changing that OT rule?  (Playoffs only - I'd leave it alone for the regular season because the downside of extra time in a football game are obvious there)

@ Nifty - sorry buddy - for a guy who touts himself as a political liberal you seem incredibly conservative to me.  Times change, sports evolve - players are bigger, faster and stronger than they used to be and the rules have been changed so much that the advantage goes to the offense - all four finalists have superior offenses and really only the Saints have a good defense - any of those teams would have an advantage if they possessed the ball first. 

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... Not the NFL and not even college but my senior year in high school we were playing an away game for the conference championship. Late 4th qt and down by 5, I threw a TD pass from the 35yd line to the back corner just over the DB's arms but it was called back because our center didn't have his mouth piece "all the way in his mouth". A penalty none of us had even heard of. Several plays later on 4th down I snuck it in from the 1 yd line with much team jubilation, but again it was called back because the Head Coach had "his toe touching the side line" back at the 40 and the ref called it from the goal line. It was pretty clear we were not going to be allowed to score or win this game. Bad refs have always been a part of the game at every level. 

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17 hours ago, revkev said:

Actually the rules have changed significantly from the original inception of OT as a way of settling ties.  The NFL did an admirable job of acknowledging this be eliminating the FG win rule - The rules favor the offense and kickers now make a high percentage of kicks from over 50 yards. 

But the rules still favor the offense. 

So my question would be - what is the negative to having each team possess the ball at least once in OT?  Clearly KC's Offense is a superior unit to its defense - yes they could have stopped New England but they had tied the game because of that offensive superiority - New England won the game because it got an extra possession through a coin flip.  How is that different from a blown call in the Rams/Saints game? 

 

Two great games decided by the luck of the draw - both situations preventable by tweaking the rules.

 

So again help me with the down side to changing that OT rule?  (Playoffs only - I'd leave it alone for the regular season because the downside of extra time in a football game are obvious there)

@ Nifty - sorry buddy - for a guy who touts himself as a political liberal you seem incredibly conservative to me.  Times change, sports evolve - players are bigger, faster and stronger than they used to be and the rules have been changed so much that the advantage goes to the offense - all four finalists have superior offenses and really only the Saints have a good defense - any of those teams would have an advantage if they possessed the ball first. 

I suppose I think there should be an advantage for winning the coin toss, but there are certainly other options - one of which you've stated.

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