NFL thread! What are you thinking?

[silver & black]

6 hours ago, sixcat said:

What's amazing, the rest of the league have had 20 years to catch up to them and have fallen further behind!  The frequency at which they reach the Super Bowl has increased dramatically.

I agree to a certain extent. I take nothing away from the Pats organization, but you need to consider how bad their division is. They are almost guaranteed six wins a year because there is no competition in the division.

Brady is definitely in the top 3 QB's of all time. I think Belichick may be the greatest coach of all time.

The Pats CAN be beaten.... the Lions, Steelers, Texans, Jags and Packers beat them. If there was competition in their division, they may have lost 3 more games. They have a distinct advantage over the rest of the league just by virtue of how bad their division is.

[sixcat]

I agree to a certain extent. I take nothing away from the Pats organization, but you need to consider how bad their division is. They are almost guaranteed six wins a year because there is no competition in the division.
Brady is definitely in the top 3 QB's of all time. I think Belichick may be the greatest coach of all time.
The Pats CAN be beaten.... the Lions, Steelers, Texans, Jags and Packers beat them. If there was competition in their division, they may have lost 3 more games. They have a distinct advantage over the rest of the league just by virtue of how bad their division is.

Regardless of our preconceived notions of what the AFC East is or isn’t, one team has won that division 16 times this century and 10 consecutive!
It sounds petty and agenda driven when we don’t give credit where credit is due. Given your screen name, I understand your frustration. But we haven’t seen this level of dominance over an entire sport since the Red Auerbach Celtics!


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[chisag]

... You can make the argument that it is easy to win the regular season but quite another story to win in the playoffs. Just look at the Bengals. Playoffs are a different intensity and the Pats have mastered playoff football. Nobody but homers remembers what the record of any given team was but most remember who won the Super Bowl. I have mad respect for the Pats, especially considering their start to this season with a 41yr old "over the hill" QB that was showing his age the first several games. 

[GB13]

I'll be honest here, I hate the Patriots. However, they have put together a great dynasty and they are a great football team. I have great respect for them on field. They are extremely well coached. I think we all (whether we like the Pats or not) must acknowledge and respect that.

[Wedgie]

I’m curious how many of you wanted the Patriots to beat the Rams when the Pats were 14 point underdogs to the greatest show on turf when they won their first Super Bowl. Now 6 Super Bowl rings later did your rooting interest change due to the Patriots success?

 

 

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[silver & black]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Any team can be beaten ‘any given Sunday.’ Who’s in their division doesn’t help them win Super Bowls. How does that win them 6 of 9 Super Bowls? Or how does that lead them to win 4 of the last 5 conference championships? 

It get's them there every year. You can't win it if you're not in it.

[Popeye64]

I agree to a certain extent. I take nothing away from the Pats organization, but you need to consider how bad their division is. They are almost guaranteed six wins a year because there is no competition in the division.
Brady is definitely in the top 3 QB's of all time. I think Belichick may be the greatest coach of all time.
The Pats CAN be beaten.... the Lions, Steelers, Texans, Jags and Packers beat them. If there was competition in their division, they may have lost 3 more games. They have a distinct advantage over the rest of the league just by virtue of how bad their division is.

I'm going to completely destroy your theory.
Playing the the AFC east is not helping the Patriots as the teams have been far too soft and they dont get up for those games.
Let's go over thier wins this year over the rest of the league. All of these wins were against top ranked and division leading teams.
Houston, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Chicago, Green Bay, Minnesota.
Then in the playoffs they had nothing but tough opponents. Chargers, KC and the Rams. The AFC East had no real impact on the outcome this year. Two big losses this year came against teams that were coached by former Patriots staff. Coaches that knew every wrinkle and flaw to be exploited.
Matt Patricia and Make Vrable know everything about the Patriots and made them look bad.

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[Popeye64]

Every year the Patriots lose key players to free agency because they refuse to be held hostage by the massive contracts that teams payout for role players. So each year the Patriots go out and find true athletes,, hungry players that just want to play. Belichick gets the absolute best out of a player like no other coach has in history.
Sunday the entire team played their asses off. Every player had a huge play during the game at one point or the other. They beat a far better team that had better position players across the board.
That formula has been played out for the past two decades. The run they are on is not supposed to be possible in the era of free agency. Look at the list of teams that make the superbowl and then vanish into mediocrity the following years. The Patriots have just refused to follow the rest into that mediocrity and it pisses everybody off.

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[silver & black]

I agree. The Pats win because of Belichick. That proves that talent doesn't win championships....coaching does. If overly talented teams won championships all the time, the Steelers would have 12 Lombardis by now. Belichick is a genius. He gets all his players on the same page and they play as a team. Lose a player?.... plug in another and carry on. Until someone figures out his formula/system for doing this on a consistent basis, the Pats will continue to win...... high caliber talent or not.

As far as my theory being destroyed.... any team that has almost no threat of losing a division game during the season will almost surely be in the playoffs, given that they are not a team in the dumps (Raiders). Playoff football is another animal. It's a new season. The Pats are a playoff team that finds another gear when the time comes, as CHISAG said. 

Bottom line is that Belichick is why they win. Brady is great and they wouldn't win as much without him, but I seem to recall they didn't do too bad a few years back with Matt Castle at the helm... Belichick IS the Patriots. when he retires, none of us will see anything like this again.

 

 

[Sluggo42]

Yea, can win it if you’re not in it.

pats get to playoff with the help of 5-6 easy division wins every year. However.... then they win the big games, and that you can’t argue away. But they get fortunate often too, as they should have lost 48 to the Seahawks, on the int instead of the handoff to Marshawn. Which will be forever know as the worst offensive call in SB history.

[Kor.A.Door]

They use the same philosophy as the Red Wings used during their 25 year straight playoff run. It’s all team driven, the coaches put them in the best possible situations to win. S&B has a point in that they will most likely make the playoffs every year. 6 division wins, they can go 4-6 against the rest of their schedule and make the playoffs. For them it’s about getting there, which allows players to rest throughout the year, which in turn keeps them fresh for the post season, yes they are a good team, and they beat some good teams, but everyone knows that once the playoffs start anything can happen. Most teams need to figure out that you have to play as a cohesive team unit to win, it cannot be talented players that are all about me. The pats coaches tell the players their role and if they don’t like it they dont play it’s that simple. You have to have guys give up the ego to win. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Kor.A.Door

[silver & black]

3 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

They use the same philosophy as the Red Wings used during their 25 year straight playoff run. It’s all team driven, the coaches put them in the best possible situations to win. S&B has a point in that they will most likely make the playoffs every year. 6 division wins, they can go 4-6 against the rest of their schedule and make the playoffs. For them it’s about getting there, which allows players to rest throughout the year, which in turn keeps them fresh for the post season, yes they are a good team, and they beat some good teams, but everyone knows that once the playoffs start anything can happen. Nose teams need to figure out that you have to play as a cohesive team unit to win, it cannot be talented players that are all about me. The pats coaches tell the players their role and if they don’t like it they dont play it’s that simple. You have to have guys give up the ego to win. 

Thank you!

[Shankster]

They use the same philosophy as the Red Wings used during their 25 year straight playoff run. It’s all team driven, the coaches put them in the best possible situations to win. S&B has a point in that they will most likely make the playoffs every year. 6 division wins, they can go 4-6 against the rest of their schedule and make the playoffs. For them it’s about getting there, which allows players to rest throughout the year, which in turn keeps them fresh for the post season, yes they are a good team, and they beat some good teams, but everyone knows that once the playoffs start anything can happen. Nose teams need to figure out that you have to play as a cohesive team unit to win, it cannot be talented players that are all about me. The pats coaches tell the players their role and if they don’t like it they dont play it’s that simple. You have to have guys give up the ego to win. 

Jim Harbaugh needs to read that. So do the players. Quit showing off your shoes and yapping on Twitter. Be a team, which they aren’t and need to work on badly.

I remember reading about Lloyd and how he made them do everything as a team the entire year, and guess what.... they went undefeated that year.

[silver & black]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

You missed the central point. In the end they still face the best from every AFC division to get to the Conference Championship, an easy division has nothing to do any wins there. They’ve been to 9 of the last 18 Super Bowls and won 6 now, facing the best of the NFC.

Right,  but without six division wins they may not get to that point. You can't face/beat anyone without first getting there.

You can all have the last say, the season is over and I'm not going to sway anyone...lol.

[Kor.A.Door]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

You missed the central point. In the end they still face the best from every AFC division to get to the Conference Championship, an easy division has nothing to do any wins there. They’ve been to 9 of the last 18 Super Bowls and won 6 now, facing the best of the NFC.

You are correct they have beaten many good teams in the playoffs, and you can’t simply do that without being very good. What S&B is saying is without 6 easy wins year in and year out, they don’t have to win very many other games throughout the season to get into the playoffs. Once there, anything can and does happen. If they were to play in a tougher division and let’s say they go 2-4 in that division, they must go at least 7-3 in the remaining games to possibly go to the playoffs at 9-7. It may not make a difference during the playoffs, but there are no other teams that can go 4-6 against the remainder of their schedule and still get in the playoffs. It’s alot easier to keep people healthy and rested when you only have to win 4 of 10 games. 

[chisag]

... Look at it like this. You can win a regional qualifier shooting 71 when everyone else is shooting 73's and 74's. While in another regional it takes a 68 to move on, so a 71 means you go home. There is some merit to playing in a weak regional. But get to the sectional and everyone is shooting 65's and 66's so you better have the game to shoot much lower under more pressure. If not you are going home. A 71 can get you there but you have to have the ability to beat much better players once you are there. So yea, a lower regional score can get you in the sectionals but you need to be much better to get to the National Championship. 

[Wedgie]

Patriots have sustained excellence while others have not is the bottom line. I know this is a couple of years old but certain organizations rise to the top. Unless you are in the NFC South. I live in New England, I cheer for the Patriots and every year they trade a stud and we all think, damnit, why they get rid of him. Bottom line is they get rid of players to sustain that excellence and not overpay players. Guys leave and call the Patriots cheap. They go to teams that overpay and wonder why they don’t make the playoffs.




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[Shankster]

I get why people hate the Patriots. I feel the same way about Bama and Clemson.

Your team sucks, these guys are great coaches, get wins and win championships.

Time to move on a appreciate the success of these coaches and players. I have. I came to realize that the Lions, Wolverines, Tigers, Wings... will never compete at an elite level. Who the hell wants to coach out of Detroit, or Ann Arbor? Or play for that matter.

My wolverines owned the pre WWII era of football, the lions? Well they ruined Barry Sanders. The Tigers... well maybe someday, and the Wings had their time. Oh I forgot the Pistons. They had their time too.

It’s all for entertainment anyways.

[Kor.A.Door]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

I give up...

 

1 hour ago, Middler said:

I give up...

I dont think any of us are trying to take away what they are have done and continue to do, it’s just a much easier road to get there than it is for everyone else. Once they get there though, you have to watch out because they are the best at coming up with a plan to win. 

[Kor.A.Door]

22 minutes ago, Middler said:

Precisely. I understood the supposed weak division claim all along. If they didn’t go anywhere after it would be valid.

In the end what division the Pats are in is irrelevant for a team with their conference and SB record. No other team comes close over the past 18 years, from any division. Attributing their SB record to their division is nonsense.

It’s not nonsense, put them in a division where there have 3 other tougher teams, instead of 6 easy wins, they get 3-3, that means that inorder to get to the same 9-7 record that could get them into the playoffs they have to win 6 out of 10. Is it easier to win 4 out of 10, or 6 out of 10. The 6 wins gets them into the playoffs with ease, and we can all see what happens when they do get there. A tougher division might mean that they don’t make it to playoffs at all. So a weak division has to mean something. 

[chisag]

... I think we all understand it is easier to get to the playoffs if you are in a weak division. But that really assures you of nothing. Again the Bengals made it to the playoffs 6 out of 7 years in 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 but lost in the first round every single year. As a Bears fan with only 4 loses this year I know very well that winning the division means nothing once you are in the playoffs. 

[STUDque]

Here's a different take on the matter, maybe the AFC East isn't as bad as we think they are? Maybe the Patriots are just that great. 

Since the Patriots began their run in 2001, they've been joined by another divisional team in the playoffs 8 times including their breakout 2001 season where both the Dolphins and Jets made it as the Wild Card teams. The Dolphins, Bills, and Jets take turns making the playoffs and even manage to advance on occasion. That's more than the Bengals can say. If the Patriots were representing the division alone all those years, I'd agree that it's a weak division but the fact that other teams are also finding their way in demonstrates the strength of the competition. 

It can't be easy having a generational team in your division. 2 matchups against the best team in the league each year would make it difficult for anybody. Recency bias makes it easy to overlook the AFC East but I'd caution against it. 

[Kor.A.Door]

15 hours ago, chisag said:

... I think we all understand it is easier to get to the playoffs if you are in a weak division. But that really assures you of nothing. Again the Bengals made it to the playoffs 6 out of 7 years in 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 but lost in the first round every single year. As a Bears fan with only 4 loses this year I know very well that winning the division means nothing once you are in the playoffs. 

This is correct, getting there for them is easier than others, once there, the have done some significant damage there is no doubt, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if they were in a tougher division, would they even have made the playoffs to begin with. There is no doubt that when the playoffs come around NE will be a very tough opponent regardless of there regular season record. 

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Over the past 18 years, their record out of their division is actually slightly better than their record inside of their division. And that's with playing a First Place schedule virtually every year....

 

So there's that...

[00sportsman]

5 minutes ago, GolfSpy Barbajo said:

Over the past 18 years, their record out of their division is actually slightly better than their record inside of their division. And that's with playing a First Place schedule virtually every year....

 

So there's that...

I was just getting ready to add that.  The other thing is....

You make your own luck.  One of the reasons the AFC East is so bad is the Patriots have the other teams turning themselves upside down trying to catch them.  

The AFC East is weak because the Patriots have the other teams spinning in circles.   They've earned it.

[Kor.A.Door]

Yes, but the weak division allows them essentially 6 wins. They average 5-1 in the division since 2003

[Kor.A.Door]

Anyway I do understand where y’all are coming from. The have been dominant, and I did say that earlier. 

[Wedgie]

Found this on Reddit and I guess the argument could be made that the Jets, Bills and Dolphins are the ones that should be complaining that they get 2 losses every year because of the Patriots being in their division. They fair quite well outside of playing the Pats.




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[NiftyNiblick]

I'm still trying to understand why people think LIII was a boring game.

I've watched the complete game four times already, and frankly, the last three were the most enjoyable because i didn't have to sweat them out. 

I'm sure that I'll watch it again before the NFL Network stops repeating it.  That one touchdown drive was awesome, and the two punters played magnificently throughout while the kickers struggled a little bit.  (The name of the game IS "football.")

Great defensive play on both sides, close game until near the very end, and I'm not understanding what was so boring.

I even watched the parade twice. It had a local replay, too.

 

[tony@CIC]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:56 AM, NiftyNiblick said:

 

It seems to fall on socio-political lines.  Football still flourishes in parts of the nation with different views than ours on other things as well.  Just an observation.

 

I believe it's more of a safety issue, not socio-political. I'd rather have my kids play any other sport  (well maybe except for Rugby) then football.