NFL thread! What are you thinking?

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, JFish350 said:

The Bears did get a haul for the pick tho. 

They did appear to get a lot, but based on the statistical numbers associated with players and picks it works out to be about net 0 or a small gain.  

[JFish350]

Just now, cnosil said:

They did appear to get a lot, but based on the statistical numbers associated with players and picks it works out to be about net 0 or a small gain.  

I think the biggest thing for them is they got WR in the deal to help Fields who apparently they are sold on. NFC could be interesting with all 4 teams doing some sort of rebuild. 

[chisag]

29 minutes ago, JFish350 said:

The Bears did get a haul for the pick tho. They have more needs and I think the offer was just too much to not make the trade. Plus there is a slight chance he could be there at 9. I don't think he gets out of the top 5 though. With the rise of the QB out of Florida there's a chance AZ picks a WR and Seattle going Offense he could get there. Pete Carrol I can wanting him. 

 

... Absolutely no chance Anderson gets past 3 as he is arguably the only can't miss player in the draft. AZ needs him just as much as the Bears. 2 second rounders are almost meaningless compared to Anderson. Considering this GM let Quinn, Mack and Smith go, I don't trust his ability to understand a game changer on defense. It's almost like he wants to play Money Ball in the NFL. You can build a good team that makes the playoffs but without a franchise QB, elite LB corp (4-3) and a great DE and 3 Technique (4-3) your chances of winning a SB are marginal. Stating the obvious your offense has to score and your defense has to stop a franchise QB and you don't do that with a "solid defense" that doesn't/can't put pressure on the QB. 2022 Bears were 31st in QB pressure and 32nd, dead last in sacks. 

[chisag]

12 minutes ago, JFish350 said:

I think the biggest thing for them is they got WR in the deal to help Fields who apparently they are sold on. NFC could be interesting with all 4 teams doing some sort of rebuild. 

 

... Herbert got rid of the ball in 2.3 seconds and Fields in 4.6 so a receiver ain't gonna help him if he doesn't read defenses, get to his 2nd/3rd options much quicker and get the ball out if his hands. I hate it when Bears fans say he didn't have great WR's which has nothing to do with getting the ball out of his hands, quite the opposite really. Not completing passes or getting picked because WR's ran bad routes can be lamed on weak WR's but not throwing the ball when your back foot hits the 5th or 7th step.  Fields seems to ned to see his WR open instead of throwing them open, something most elite QB's do in high school. 

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Herbert got rid of the ball in 2.3 seconds and Fields in 4.6 so a receiver ain't gonna help him if he doesn't read defenses, get to his 2nd/3rd options much quicker and get the ball out if his hands. I hate it when Bears fans say he didn't have great WR's which has nothing to do with getting the ball out of his hands, quite the opposite really. Not completing passes or getting picked because WR's ran bad routes can be lamed on weak WR's but not throwing the ball when your back foot hits the 5th or 7th step.  Fields seems to ned to see his WR open instead of throwing them open, something most elite QB's do in high school. 

Additionally, he was under pressure for about half of his pass attempts through the season.  He needs a quicker release and to not be under so much pressure on dropbacks to be able to get the ball to that receiver.  

[JFish350]

21 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Herbert got rid of the ball in 2.3 seconds and Fields in 4.6 so a receiver ain't gonna help him if he doesn't read defenses, get to his 2nd/3rd options much quicker and get the ball out if his hands. I hate it when Bears fans say he didn't have great WR's which has nothing to do with getting the ball out of his hands, quite the opposite really. Not completing passes or getting picked because WR's ran bad routes can be lamed on weak WR's but not throwing the ball when your back foot hits the 5th or 7th step.  Fields seems to ned to see his WR open instead of throwing them open, something most elite QB's do in high school. 

I agree with everything you said. New GM & HC in AZ, I am not sure they have a clear path on what that team needs or what they want. I can see them taking WR to help Kyler. 

Fields does need to get rid of the ball faster, that's coaching and play calling. I'm good with the Bears keeping Fields, it's just 2 games the Vikings crappy D can pad some stats. lol

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Additionally, he was under pressure for about half of his pass attempts through the season.  He needs a quicker release and to not be under so much pressure on dropbacks to be able to get the ball to that receiver.  

 

... Crazy misleading stat imo. There is a reason 2.5 seconds is the time NFL QB's need to get rid of the ball. Defenses recover quickly and close gaps. On a simple 10 out with inside leverage, you throw the ball before the WR plants his cut foot and when he turns back to the QB the ball is already halfway there. You don't wait to see if he is open coming out of the break. When you hold the ball longer windows close which makes you hold it longer. This is the reason he ran so well because defenses were down field covering WR's. I watched every game and he constantly had WR's or check downs not just open but w-i-d-e open and for whatever reason jut didn't throw the ball. It was a very frustrating season with me screaming THROW IT. And while I hold out hope he can improve, his ability to pick up his secondary reads or throw open WR's was almost non existent. The difference between Herbert/Burrow getting the ball out of their hands in their second year was night and day. And Purdy did it in his first start. 

... LOL, I am depressing myself again also I am gonna stop now. 

[silver & black]

As a die hard Buckeyes fan........... Fields was great for us. I knew he would not be a good NFL QB. I still think this. He was predominately a running QB in college, as are most Buckeye QB's these days... with the exception of Stroud, who I think will be a good NFL QB.

Fields will be a great back up (#2) QB for any team he's on, but he isn't a starting QB in the NFL.

 

[JFish350]

On 3/11/2023 at 1:23 PM, silver & black said:

As a die hard Buckeyes fan........... Fields was great for us. I knew he would not be a good NFL QB. I still think this. He was predominately a running QB in college, as are most Buckeye QB's these days... with the exception of Stroud, who I think will be a good NFL QB.

Fields will be a great back up (#2) QB for any team he's on, but he isn't a starting QB in the NFL.

 

I for one am happy the Bears decided to trade the 1st pick and stick with Fields. With the departure of Sharon Rogers the NFCN is a two team race. I fully believe the Lions will Lion up and the division belongs to the Vikings, The true Kings of the North.  

[chisag]

1 hour ago, JFish350 said:

I for one am happy the Bears decided to trade the 1st pick and stick with Fields. With the departure of Sharon Rogers the NFCN is a two team race. I fully believe the Lions will Lion up and the division belongs to the Vikings, The true Kings of the North.  

 

... I am not sold on Fields but of course hope I am wrong about him. Good guy from everything I have heard and a hard worker but so far he hasn't shown the ability to be a competent NFL QB let alone a franchise QB. Take away his running and he is the worst in the league. And I am not a know it all sitting on my couch and thinking I am smarter than a GM with a cadre of scouts and a ton of information unavailable, but when a generational talent is available history has shown you take him. 

... If Fields works out and the picks turn into starters, Poles will have made a smart decision to trade down. I do think Moore is the real deal and a proven #1 WR so no guessing on a draft pick and obviously the Bears needed a #1 WR. That said, if Anderson turns into a dominant DE that takes up double teams and changes games with pressures, sacks and forced fumbles it will just be another big mistake made by a Bears GM. As much as I hated losing Roquan Smith, Treimaine Edmunds is a great replacement so Poles stock went up a little imo. 

[richk9holes]

As a long suffering Giants fan, I'm over here thinking about buying a Darren Waller jersey. They know how to get my hopes up, also how to dash them. We'll see how it works out. I like their off-season.

[richk9holes]

15 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I am not sold on Fields but of course hope I am wrong about him. Good guy from everything I have heard and a hard worker but so far he hasn't shown the ability to be a competent NFL QB let alone a franchise QB. Take away his running and he is the worst in the league. And I am not a know it all sitting on my couch and thinking I am smarter than a GM with a cadre of scouts and a ton of information unavailable, but when a generational talent is available history has shown you take him. 

... If Fields works out and the picks turn into starters, Poles will have made a smart decision to trade down. I do think Moore is the real deal and a proven #1 WR so no guessing on a draft pick and obviously the Bears needed a #1 WR. That said, if Anderson turns into a dominant DE that takes up double teams and changes games with pressures, sacks and forced fumbles it will just be another big mistake made by a Bears GM. As much as I hated losing Roquan Smith, Treimaine Edmunds is a great replacement so Poles stock went up a little imo. 

A good model for what the Bears could be is the Ravens teams that went to the playoffs a bunch early in Lamar Jackson's career. I think they could be better offensively because the Ravens missed on every free agent WR they picked up. D.J. Moore is better than any of them, imo.

Building the team in the trenches and operating your offense through a guy who can run for 3 TDs but might throw 0 any given day has been successful in the past. Tim Tebow's Jets and Vince Young's early years on the Titans come to mind as well.

[silver & black]

5 hours ago, richk9holes said:

As a long suffering Giants fan, I'm over here thinking about buying a Darren Waller jersey. They know how to get my hopes up, also how to dash them. We'll see how it works out. I like their off-season.

I am one Raiders fan that is not in the least upset with dealing Darren Waller. Maybe he will ball out for your team. He had two successful seasons with the Raiders... 3 and 4 years ago. I personally feel like he quit on his team the last two years. He was more interested in rapping than playing football. I hope he plays well for you. I'm happy to be rid of a player that pretty much made it known he didn't care about winning.

[silver & black]

5 hours ago, richk9holes said:

Building the team in the trenches and operating your offense through a guy who can run for 3 TDs but might throw 0 any given day has been successful in the past. Tim Tebow's Jets and Vince Young's early years on the Titans come to mind as well.

I agree to a point. The problem is that 'running QB's' are short lived in the NFL. Look at RG3. Lamar Jackson is often injured. The NFL is a different animal than college.......... all of the defensive players are large, fast and athletic. Not a good thing for a QB that makes a living with his legs.

[chisag]

10 minutes ago, silver & black said:

I agree to a point. The problem is that 'running QB's' are short lived in the NFL. Look at RG3. Lamar Jackson is often injured. The NFL is a different animal than college.......... all of the defensive players are large, fast and athletic. Not a good thing for a QB that makes a living with his legs.

 

... Yup, we have seen over and over again it takes one play to end your season. 

[Rickp]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Yup, we have seen over and over again it takes one play to end your season. 

Or a career……

[chisag]

1 minute ago, Rickp said:

Or a career……

 

... IF a running QB can put his manhood and ego on permanent hold like Russel Wilson, I think running is a real advantage as long as they just don't take any hits. Sliding 2 yds before the 1st down mark on 3rd down or just short of the goal line to avoid contact is not only smart but good for the team, even if it means a loss. I think we all know what a win in week 7 when the QB gets in the end zone but suffers a concussion or worse and losing your QB for several weeks or the rest of the season mens a back up isn't gonna get the job done in todays NFL. Purdy was the very rare exception and the 49ers were either lucky, smart or both.  

[richk9holes]

The optimal QB I'd want in the offense I would want to run would be able to do both well, but they are rarer than unicorns.

[richk9holes]

45 minutes ago, silver & black said:

I agree to a point. The problem is that 'running QB's' are short lived in the NFL. Look at RG3. Lamar Jackson is often injured. The NFL is a different animal than college.......... all of the defensive players are large, fast and athletic. Not a good thing for a QB that makes a living with his legs.

Agree with that, and credit to some of those teams who maintain playoff records with the QB on the shelf, part of it goes to depth chart management and having a guy who can step in.

[richk9holes]

52 minutes ago, silver & black said:

I am one Raiders fan that is not in the least upset with dealing Darren Waller. Maybe he will ball out for your team. He had two successful seasons with the Raiders... 3 and 4 years ago. I personally feel like he quit on his team the last two years. He was more interested in rapping than playing football. I hope he plays well for you. I'm happy to be rid of a player that pretty much made it known he didn't care about winning.

I can see your point, but from my view he is the best option when healthy of a hodgepodge of receiving threats we now have in the cases Daniel Jones is running scared with an Eli look on his face. TE has been a draft focus for them so he is serving his purpose as a TE2 even if he doesn't ball out. I imagine his contract will be extended if he's serviceable not great. 

It was a move that was needed from the front office that traded away Evan Engram