GHIN index data

[revkev]

I just want to clear up some terminology.  In the USGA system, your Handicap Index is calculated based on your scores, and the Slope and Course Rating of the courses you played.  Your Index is the same, no matter where you play, and it gets updated on the 1st and the 15th of each month.  Your Course Handicap is calculated based on your Index, and on the Slope Rating of the course you're playing.  As Tony says, your Course Handicap will vary from tee to tee, and course to course.  

And sadly, sandbagging happens.  The only way to fight it is to have an active Handicap Committee.  Maybe that means you have to volunteer to work on the Committee, which is a really thankless job.  Well, not completely thankless, many people will really appreciate efforts to make handicaps accurate.  Some will resent the idea that anyone watches their scores, and some will resent the idea that it will be more difficult to cheat the system.  But in my experience, most players are honest, and will be happy when others are required to be more honest.

 

My handicap comes from rounds played in two leagues and at my club where scores are closely monitored. So big brother is always watching.

 

In fact in one of my leagues big brother is playing with me. Our handicap committee chair is my B player. I can’t believe the grief he takes. It’s comical actually. Too many guys fail to understand that their handicap index reflex their potential and not what they usually shoot.

 

 

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[M. Parsons]

On 8/25/2018 at 6:17 PM, tony@CIC said:

Ah never mind, just found the data at this link

 

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicap-index-statistics/mens-handicap-index-statistics-d24e6096.html

 

The percentages are somewhat surprising and is skewed to the lower end of the index scale. The guys in our men's league are at the higher end of the scale (say 18 and higher). We must be an anomaly to the rest of the golfing world.

 

 

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I think that the numbers probably look that way because weekend warriors don't want to have to pay for a handicap system like GHIN, so they use apps that don't cost anything, or just don't keep track of their scores. It's not until you start playing in organized tournaments that you really need a handicap. I know for me, I established a handicap shortly after I had just started playing, but that was only because I joined the golf club on base (military) and they had a computer for me to enter my scores. For me, it was encouraging to see my handicap start to come down. However, once I got stationed elsewhere, I didn't have a way to track my scores because I wasn't a member anywhere and I didn't want to pay for a handicap system (before all the apps). Now, I have joined a men's league and they require a GHIN, so that's what I use, and if I were to shoot an unusually low score (in tournament play), they would investigate it (at least that's what the membership book says). But I will say that I believe there are still ways to cheat the system, but for me...I want to work towards a lower handicap, not stay high just so I can win a couple of flighted tournaments. One thing I noticed from my men's league is, there was a guy last year that played in Flight 2 in the first tournament of the season, and was then switched to Flight 3 for the rest of the season, where he cleaned house in every tournament, by a bunch of strokes, not just 1 or 2...but that's on the tournament director.

[DaveP043]

A quick question, say a player doesn't have a GHIN number, and he doesn't use an online service like Diablogolf or the Grint.  Is it possible he has a valid USGA Handicap?

[M. Parsons]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

A quick question, say a player doesn't have a GHIN number, and he doesn't use an online service like Diablogolf or the Grint.  Is it possible he has a valid USGA Handicap?

I would think it depends on the clubs version of valid. I forgot to mention that when I was living in Vegas, I got asked to be the chairman for the Southern Nevada Golf Assoc. Handicap committee and I wasn't even a member of their club, very odd to me, but it allowed me to establish a "valid" handicap again...for free. But when I moved to ABQ and joined the men's league here, so I could play in tournaments, they said that it wasn't "valid" because it wasn't a GHIN established by the USGA. The system in Nevada was Golf Net, and their app says USGA Handicap Tracker...so I thought it was very odd that the ABQ men's league didn't recognize it as "valid".

[CarlH]

7 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

I would think it depends on the clubs version of valid. I forgot to mention that when I was living in Vegas, I got asked to be the chairman for the Southern Nevada Golf Assoc. Handicap committee and I wasn't even a member of their club, very odd to me, but it allowed me to establish a "valid" handicap again...for free. But when I moved to ABQ and joined the men's league here, so I could play in tournaments, they said that it wasn't "valid" because it wasn't a GHIN established by the USGA. The system in Nevada was Golf Net, and their app says USGA Handicap Tracker...so I thought it was very odd that the ABQ men's league didn't recognize it as "valid".

This is one of the reasons that a new handicap system is going into effect in 2020.  GHIN is just one of the many systems that does handicap around the world.  I think there are 7 official ones worldwide and the effort is being made to establish one worldwide system.

Worldwide Handicap system

[DaveP043]

35 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

I would think it depends on the clubs version of valid. I forgot to mention that when I was living in Vegas, I got asked to be the chairman for the Southern Nevada Golf Assoc. Handicap committee and I wasn't even a member of their club, very odd to me, but it allowed me to establish a "valid" handicap again...for free. But when I moved to ABQ and joined the men's league here, so I could play in tournaments, they said that it wasn't "valid" because it wasn't a GHIN established by the USGA. The system in Nevada was Golf Net, and their app says USGA Handicap Tracker...so I thought it was very odd that the ABQ men's league didn't recognize it as "valid".

This is one reason I object to the term "GHIN Handicap".  GHIN is a service developed by the USGA in about 1980 to provide computational and data storage services to State and Regional Golf Associations who CHOOSE TO USE IT.  There is nothing in the USGA Handicap Manual that REQUIRES a state or regional association to use GHIN, and there are a number of them that choose otherwise.  Southern Nevada GA used GHIN,  the Northern Nevada GA used GHIN, but they very well may have been using Golfnet while you were there..  I did a little checking, and the Wisconsin Golf Association does NOT use GHIN, yet handicaps in Wisconsin are just as valid as those where GHIN is used.   Just across the river from me, Maryland uses Golfnet instead of GHIN.   Whoever told you that if it wasn't maintained by GHIN, it wasn't an official USGA Handicap Index, they were simply wrong.

My state association (VSGA) has chosen to use GHIN to compute my handicap and retain my scoring record, as well as for all members at clubs who are members in the VSGA.  I do NOT have a GHIN handicap, I have a USGA handicap.  So do players in Wisconsin and Maryland, even though they don't use GHIN.

This can cause some problems, or give opportunities to cheat the system.  A friend plays at my club, and is a member at a club in Delaware, which used Golfnet.  To be compliant with the rules, he's required to post all of his scores.  That means he's supposed to post each score into two different systems, if the systems don't communicate with each other.  If someone wanted to cheat the system, he could easily keep two different handicaps in two different systems.  

Edited April 19, 2019 by DaveP043
added comment about cheating the system

[M. Parsons]

7 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is one reason I object to the term "GHIN Handicap".  GHIN is a service developed by the USGA in about 1980 to provide computational and data storage services to State and Regional Golf Associations who CHOOSE TO USE IT.  There is nothing in the USGA Handicap Manual that REQUIRES a state or regional association to use GHIN, and there are a number of them that choose otherwise.  Southern Nevada GA used GHIN,  the Northern Nevada GA used GHIN, but they very well may have been using Golfnet while you were there..  I did a little checking, and the Wisconsin Golf Association does NOT use GHIN, yet handicaps in Wisconsin are just as valid as those where GHIN is used.   Just across the river from me, Maryland uses Golfnet instead of GHIN.   Whoever told you that if it wasn't maintained by GHIN, it wasn't an official USGA Handicap Index, they were simply wrong.

My state association (VSGA) has chosen to use GHIN to compute my handicap and retain my scoring record, as well as for all members at clubs who are members in the VSGA.  I do NOT have a GHIN handicap, I have a USGA handicap.  So do players in Wisconsin and Maryland, even though they don't use GHIN.

This is where all the confusion comes in.  It's interesting to me that you said that you do NOT have a GHIN handicap, but have a USGA handicap, and it's my assumption that everyone that has a GHIN #, has a USGA Handicap...semantics! 

Let me clear up something I said earlier. The club here in ABQ didn't say that my Golf Net USGA Handicap wasn't valid...just that my membership number wouldn't translate into the system they were using (GHIN). So once they gave me a GHIN member number, then I just transcribed scores into the GHIN and my USGA Index followed.

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

This is where all the confusion comes in.  It's interesting to me that you said that you do NOT have a GHIN handicap, but have a USGA handicap, and it's my assumption that everyone that has a GHIN #, has a USGA Handicap...semantics! 

Let me clear up something I said earlier. The club here in ABQ didn't say that my Golf Net USGA Handicap wasn't valid...just that my membership number wouldn't translate into the system they were using (GHIN). So once they gave me a GHIN member number, then I just transcribed scores into the GHIN and my USGA Index followed.

I apologize, I think I misread what you meant about your move to ABQ.  It sounds like they handled it appropriately, getting you and your scoring history into the New Mexico system when you moved to New Mexico.  I just wouldn't want a friend from Maryland or Wisconsin to feel like we have something that he doesn't, simply because his state's association has chosen not to use GHIN.  We all (within the US and Canada) have USGA Handicap Indices, no matter who doesn't the computations.