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Modern Irons are here to stay


chisag
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Excellent post. I think jacustomgolf's i700 review supports your argument and even takes it a step further being a GI iron, not just a players distance iron.

 

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Driver:  :callaway-small:Epic Speed 9* (set -1) Mitsubishi MMT 70X
3W: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 15* Recoil 460ES
3H, 4H: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES
4-AW:  :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105
SW: :cleveland-small: Zipcore Black Satin 54*
LW: :cleveland-small: Zipcore Black Satin 58*
Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Marxman
Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite
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2021 Test - Callaway Epic Speed

 

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I saw this video today and almost started a thread on it, but this is the perfect thread for it.

 

Stronger lofts doesn't mean lower flight or less spin. Additional ball speed, which is a result of a higher smash factor from the lower lofts, generates more spin and thus a higher ball flight, a steeper angle of descent and more carry distance.

 

Club design isn't black and white. There are diminishing returns with lofts, spin, launch etc. and different players with different swing speeds and angles of attack will produce different results!

 

 

https://youtu.be/vJn3XQDTaWM

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Amen Chisag! I'm rocking the Cleveland Launcher HB irons and playing the best golf of my life and I'm guessing a lot of other people would to. But like I said in the Launcher review thread, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it.

 

 

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Wedgie

 

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Great thread chisag, I always enjoy reading what you have to say!

 

I wish I had found MGS just a few weeks before I did. Instead of just buying a sexy set of irons (which I hit fairly well the season I gamed them), I would've gone and been properly fit for something that found help improve my game. I can hold my one when it comes to ball striking with the irons, but only getting out a few times this summer has really shown how quickly you can lose your feel and it has hurt my score.

 

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I saw this video today and almost started a thread on it, but this is the perfect thread for it.

 

Stronger lofts doesn't mean lower flight or less spin. Additional ball speed, which is a result of a higher smash factor from the lower lofts, generates more spin and thus a higher ball flight, a steeper angle of descent and more carry distance.

 

Club design isn't black and white. There are diminishing returns with lofts, spin, launch etc. and different players with different swing speeds and angles of attack will produce different results!

 

 

 

 

... Great stuff. I love those guys. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Diamana Ltd 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                TaylorMade SIM2 Max 18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:   TaylorMade UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
              Taylor Made Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 TaylorMade MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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@chisag - I always enjoy your articulate .. and interesting! .. posts. Thx!

 

I would, though, disagree with you on one point: IMO "modern irons" are not here to stay, but rather will continue to (incrementally) evolve in design and function, such that in say 50-odd years from now today's sets will look as nostalgic as one from the 60s does to us now....

(No, that is NOT a knock on vintage club aficionados!)

 

But I appreciate your main point about considering all the performance aspects that go into the engineering of a club.

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WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Callaway Epic Speed 4W and Epic Max 7W (both Project X Cypher)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H and 5H (both Recoil ZTR)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX-2 54 and CBX 60 (both Rotex graphite)
...Edel EAS 4.0 (stock shaft, zero offset hosel, round grip)
..all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

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3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

Ha, good catch! But.... he does seem to play a LOT......... ;-)

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Callaway Epic Speed 4W and Epic Max 7W (both Project X Cypher)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H and 5H (both Recoil ZTR)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX-2 54 and CBX 60 (both Rotex graphite)
...Edel EAS 4.0 (stock shaft, zero offset hosel, round grip)
..all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

I was going to ask the same; I'm not sure I've played 2000 in my lifetime...

 

 

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126422322_PXGLogo_2.png.74a339363ba3931cc4fc226a253621f8.png Gen 2  0811 XF 10.5*  Nippon N.S. Regio Formula MB+ 65 Stiff
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:bridgestone-small:  Tour B JGR HF-2 irons (5i - PW)  KBS Tour 130x

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I was going to ask the same; I'm not sure I've played 2000 in my lifetime...

 

 

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That's why he's a + handicap. 😉

 

Edit: Great post. You make a lot of good, well reasoned points. Thank you.

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Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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... Complaining about modern iron lofts is an exercise in futility. All of us that played traditional lofts for years have had to adjust to new irons and their much stronger lofts. It is what it is and trying to fight it is like wishing your iPhone still had a rotary dial. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Well, let's get it out of the way right now that I've got a flip phone because I thought that my smart phone truly sucked and i tossed it in a drawer, never to look at it again. As for the actual subject....

 

....the moderns irons are a disgrace, chisag.  They really are.

 

 

Forget the stampings on the sole, not that I ever will.

 

We now have lofts on shafts that aren't the right length for them.  Stamping a 4 onto a club that should be a 2 also puts too short a shaft on that 20º club. 

 

It's the principle that makes "1-length"  such a bad idea.

 

You can't generate the speed to elevate it to the top of its intended trajectory.

 

You have a half dozen clubs in your bag, multiple wedges, with shafts less than a yard long. 

The wedges are usually 35½" or less, and you've got as many as five of them in addition to your putter.

 

So now you're not just changing cosmetic stampings. You're changing the overall length of your set.

 

 

If  it doesn't bother you, congrats, but it bothered the hell out of me.  If the clubmakers won't at least let you choose the stamping on your clubs, don't go making excuses for them,  Find somebody that will.

 

And that's just stampings.

Why do the modern clubs look like they're made by Fisher Price?

 

Unnecessary texture variations. Ugly colors and graphics.  Stupid names.

Why are the graphite shafts so stupidly painted? I liked black.

 

I played the game for fun.  If the equipment pissed me off, I wasn't having fun.

 

If I were able to still play, a big part of my fun would be beating the system and putting together a set that didn't embarrass me more than my limited talent does.

 

 

 

 

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I saw this video today and almost started a thread on it, but this is the perfect thread for it.

 

Stronger lofts doesn't mean lower flight or less spin. Additional ball speed, which is a result of a higher smash factor from the lower lofts, generates more spin and thus a higher ball flight, a steeper angle of descent and more carry distance.

 

Club design isn't black and white. There are diminishing returns with lofts, spin, launch etc. and different players with different swing speeds and angles of attack will produce different results!

 

 

https://youtu.be/vJn3XQDTaWM

Not following how loft has anything at all to do with smash factor when it's an equation of swing speed and ball speed

 

 

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Hmmm, interesting topic.

If I could afford a new set it irons, I'm pretty sure I would go with a mixed set. Like the mizuno mixed set.

Hot irons 4 and 5

Forged 6,7,8

Tour 9, pa, gw

 

I'm more worried about excessive gapping issues once I get to my wedges. Like I don't want a ow to go 150, then a gap to go 115.

 

But I suppose you could gap taller in the long irons, and then experiment on your way down?

 

But it would be nice to hit a 4 iron 210...

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Not following how loft has anything at all to do with smash factor when it's an equation of swing speed and ball speed

 

 

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More face the ball can contact the more energy that can be transferred to it from the swing. Lower loft in theory would allow more contact with the ball. That's why a driver has a higher smash factor than say a 3w.

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Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

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Another great post, Chi.

 

In reading this forum and participating in the Cobra Connect Challenge, I've come to the conclusion that golfers lie somewhere towards one end or the other on a continuum:

 

I care about the experience of shooting a low score I care about the experience of hitting a great shot

 

And honestly, who's to say that either side is right or wrong? But if you're bagging MP33s and complaining about your scores, perhaps you don't play the right clubs for your archetype.

 

I can safely say that all I care about is shooting a score, and with the F8s, I finally have a set of irons that are designed to help me do that.

  • Like 4

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
GW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :taylormade-small: TP5X Pix
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Well, let's get it out of the way right now that I've got a flip phone because I thought that my smart phone truly sucked and i tossed it in a drawer, never to look at it again. As for the actual subject....

 

....the moderns irons are a disgrace, chisag. They really are.

 

 

Forget the stampings on the sole, not that I ever will.

 

We now have lofts on shafts that aren't the right length for them. Stamping a 4 onto a club that should be a 2 also puts too short a shaft on that 20º club.

 

It's the principle that makes "1-length" such a bad idea.

 

You can't generate the speed to elevate it to the top of its intended trajectory.

 

You have a half dozen clubs in your bag, multiple wedges, with shafts less than a yard long.

The wedges are usually 35½" or less, and you've got as many as five of them in addition to your putter.

 

So now you're not just changing cosmetic stampings. You're changing the overall length of your set.

 

 

If it doesn't bother you, congrats, but it bothered the hell out of me. If the clubmakers won't at least let you choose the stamping on your clubs, don't go making excuses for them, Find somebody that will.

 

And that's just stampings.

Why do the modern clubs look like they're made by Fisher Price?

 

Unnecessary texture variations. Ugly colors and graphics. Stupid names.

Why are the graphite shafts so stupidly painted? I liked black.

 

I played the game for fun. If the equipment pissed me off, I wasn't having fun.

 

If I were able to still play, a big part of my fun would be beating the system and putting together a set that didn't embarrass me more than my limited talent does.

Saw this post coming from a mile away.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 9

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Ran right into it! :D

 

 

Saw this post coming from a mile away. 


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