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chisag

Modern Irons are here to stay

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Excellent post. I think jacustomgolf's i700 review supports your argument and even takes it a step further being a GI iron, not just a players distance iron.

 

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Driver: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 9.5* Recoil 460ES cut to 45"
3W: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 15* Recoil 460ES
3H, 4H: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES
4-PW:  :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105
AW: :mizuno-small:S5 52*
SW: :cleveland-small: 588
LW: :callaway-small: MD3
Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Marxman
Bag: :bridgestone-small: Tour B Stand Bag
Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star
Pushcart: BigMax iQ+

:SuperSpeed: Tester
Starting Driver Speed on PRGR Monitor: 102 mph

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I saw this video today and almost started a thread on it, but this is the perfect thread for it.

 

Stronger lofts doesn't mean lower flight or less spin. Additional ball speed, which is a result of a higher smash factor from the lower lofts, generates more spin and thus a higher ball flight, a steeper angle of descent and more carry distance.

 

Club design isn't black and white. There are diminishing returns with lofts, spin, launch etc. and different players with different swing speeds and angles of attack will produce different results!

 

 

https://youtu.be/vJn3XQDTaWM

  • Like 7

In my :mizuno-small: BR-D4 Stand Bag

:ping-small: G410 Plus Ping 9* VA Nemesys 65FIVE
:ping-small: G410 LST 14.5* VA Vylyn 75FIVE
:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X
:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X
:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 49 F - 54 S - 59 D
:mizuno-small: M Craft II
:bridgestone-small: Tour B X
 
SuperSpeed Forum Tester
Initial Driver Speed on Provided Monitor: 109 MPH
 

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Amen Chisag! I'm rocking the Cleveland Launcher HB irons and playing the best golf of my life and I'm guessing a lot of other people would to. But like I said in the Launcher review thread, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

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Wedgie

 

Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5

:cleveland-small: - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid

:cobra-small: - F9 One Length 3-G

:cleveland-small: - CBX 52 and 56

:EVNROLL: - ER 1.2

Top Flite Gamer

Play Right

 

 

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Great thread chisag, I always enjoy reading what you have to say!

 

I wish I had found MGS just a few weeks before I did. Instead of just buying a sexy set of irons (which I hit fairly well the season I gamed them), I would've gone and been properly fit for something that found help improve my game. I can hold my one when it comes to ball striking with the irons, but only getting out a few times this summer has really shown how quickly you can lose your feel and it has hurt my score.

 

Sent from my E6853 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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I saw this video today and almost started a thread on it, but this is the perfect thread for it.

 

Stronger lofts doesn't mean lower flight or less spin. Additional ball speed, which is a result of a higher smash factor from the lower lofts, generates more spin and thus a higher ball flight, a steeper angle of descent and more carry distance.

 

Club design isn't black and white. There are diminishing returns with lofts, spin, launch etc. and different players with different swing speeds and angles of attack will produce different results!

 

 

 

 

... Great stuff. I love those guys. 

  • Like 1

Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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@chisag - I always enjoy your articulate .. and interesting! .. posts. Thx!

 

I would, though, disagree with you on one point: IMO "modern irons" are not here to stay, but rather will continue to (incrementally) evolve in design and function, such that in say 50-odd years from now today's sets will look as nostalgic as one from the 60s does to us now....

(No, that is NOT a knock on vintage club aficionados!)

 

But I appreciate your main point about considering all the performance aspects that go into the engineering of a club.

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WITB of an "aspiring" 😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*; Tensei CK Blue)
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 7W (Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H (Recoil ZTR)
..Tour Edge HL4 #4 iron-wood (UST Mamiya)
..Callaway Big Bertha CF19 6i (Recoil ZTR) / Apex CF16 7i-PW (Recoil ES 760)
..Hogan Equalizer 50/54/58 black (Recoil ES 760 black SmacWrap)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator...
https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/39526-2020-official-member-review-exputt-putting-simulator/page/1/#comments

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

Ha, good catch! But.... he does seem to play a LOT......... ;-)

WITB of an "aspiring" 😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*; Tensei CK Blue)
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 7W (Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H (Recoil ZTR)
..Tour Edge HL4 #4 iron-wood (UST Mamiya)
..Callaway Big Bertha CF19 6i (Recoil ZTR) / Apex CF16 7i-PW (Recoil ES 760)
..Hogan Equalizer 50/54/58 black (Recoil ES 760 black SmacWrap)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator...
https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/39526-2020-official-member-review-exputt-putting-simulator/page/1/#comments

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

I was going to ask the same; I'm not sure I've played 2000 in my lifetime...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy


"Where'd it go?"  "Right in the Lumberyard..."
 
:bridgestone-small:  JGR 9.5*  Driver Graphite Design AD DI-6x 
:bridgestone-small:  Tour B JGR 15*   Fairway UST ProForce V2 7F5 76g X-Flex
:bridgestone-small:  Tour B JGR 19* & 22* Hybrid UST ProForce V2 90g X-Flex
:bridgestone-small:  Tour B JGR HF-2 irons (5i - AW)  KBS Tour 130x

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 Wedges (54, 58)
MATI Mamo Putter 33"  Super Stroke Mid Slim 2.0
:bridgestone-small: Tour B-RX

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro Nexus Rangefinder

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I was going to ask the same; I'm not sure I've played 2000 in my lifetime...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

That's why he's a + handicap. 😉

 

Edit: Great post. You make a lot of good, well reasoned points. Thank you.

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Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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... Complaining about modern iron lofts is an exercise in futility. All of us that played traditional lofts for years have had to adjust to new irons and their much stronger lofts. It is what it is and trying to fight it is like wishing your iPhone still had a rotary dial. But this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Well, let's get it out of the way right now that I've got a flip phone because I thought that my smart phone truly sucked and i tossed it in a drawer, never to look at it again. As for the actual subject....

 

....the moderns irons are a disgrace, chisag.  They really are.

 

 

Forget the stampings on the sole, not that I ever will.

 

We now have lofts on shafts that aren't the right length for them.  Stamping a 4 onto a club that should be a 2 also puts too short a shaft on that 20º club. 

 

It's the principle that makes "1-length"  such a bad idea.

 

You can't generate the speed to elevate it to the top of its intended trajectory.

 

You have a half dozen clubs in your bag, multiple wedges, with shafts less than a yard long. 

The wedges are usually 35½" or less, and you've got as many as five of them in addition to your putter.

 

So now you're not just changing cosmetic stampings. You're changing the overall length of your set.

 

 

If  it doesn't bother you, congrats, but it bothered the hell out of me.  If the clubmakers won't at least let you choose the stamping on your clubs, don't go making excuses for them,  Find somebody that will.

 

And that's just stampings.

Why do the modern clubs look like they're made by Fisher Price?

 

Unnecessary texture variations. Ugly colors and graphics.  Stupid names.

Why are the graphite shafts so stupidly painted? I liked black.

 

I played the game for fun.  If the equipment pissed me off, I wasn't having fun.

 

If I were able to still play, a big part of my fun would be beating the system and putting together a set that didn't embarrass me more than my limited talent does.


 

 

 

 

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Is that 2000 rounds a typo or do you golf 22hrs a day 365?

Well that's between 5 and 6 rounds a day I'm sure no one has time for that so I'm going with typo

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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I saw this video today and almost started a thread on it, but this is the perfect thread for it.

 

Stronger lofts doesn't mean lower flight or less spin. Additional ball speed, which is a result of a higher smash factor from the lower lofts, generates more spin and thus a higher ball flight, a steeper angle of descent and more carry distance.

 

Club design isn't black and white. There are diminishing returns with lofts, spin, launch etc. and different players with different swing speeds and angles of attack will produce different results!

 

 

https://youtu.be/vJn3XQDTaWM

Not following how loft has anything at all to do with smash factor when it's an equation of swing speed and ball speed

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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Hmmm, interesting topic.

If I could afford a new set it irons, I'm pretty sure I would go with a mixed set. Like the mizuno mixed set.

Hot irons 4 and 5

Forged 6,7,8

Tour 9, pa, gw

 

I'm more worried about excessive gapping issues once I get to my wedges. Like I don't want a ow to go 150, then a gap to go 115.

 

But I suppose you could gap taller in the long irons, and then experiment on your way down?

 

But it would be nice to hit a 4 iron 210...

  • Like 4

Currently testing for review:

:Hogan: Combo iron set -8,9,per Icon 5,6,7 PtxPro 4-UiHi

:ping-small: G400 LSTec driver 10° on Aldila X-Torsion Stiff

:callaway-small: 816 Alpha 3-wood 15° On Aldila Rogue Stiff

:callaway-small: 815 GBB Alpha hybrid 19° On Fujikura Speeder 865 Stiff

:benhogan-small: Ptx Pro 5-P irons on KBS Tour V 110 S

:benhogan-small: Equalizer 50°, 54°, 60° wedges on recoil 780 StifF

 :EVNROLL: ER3 34”

:titelist-small: ProV1x

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 shoes

 

 

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Not following how loft has anything at all to do with smash factor when it's an equation of swing speed and ball speed

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

More face the ball can contact the more energy that can be transferred to it from the swing. Lower loft in theory would allow more contact with the ball. That's why a driver has a higher smash factor than say a 3w.

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Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

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Another great post, Chi.

 

In reading this forum and participating in the Cobra Connect Challenge, I've come to the conclusion that golfers lie somewhere towards one end or the other on a continuum:

 

I care about the experience of shooting a low score I care about the experience of hitting a great shot

 

And honestly, who's to say that either side is right or wrong? But if you're bagging MP33s and complaining about your scores, perhaps you don't play the right clubs for your archetype.

 

I can safely say that all I care about is shooting a score, and with the F8s, I finally have a set of irons that are designed to help me do that.

  • Like 4

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
2 Hybrid - Titleist 585 (17*) - Titleist 4175 ( R )
4i - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Forest Green)
Ball -  :Snell: MTB-X
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino
 

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Well, let's get it out of the way right now that I've got a flip phone because I thought that my smart phone truly sucked and i tossed it in a drawer, never to look at it again. As for the actual subject....

 

....the moderns irons are a disgrace, chisag. They really are.

 

 

Forget the stampings on the sole, not that I ever will.

 

We now have lofts on shafts that aren't the right length for them. Stamping a 4 onto a club that should be a 2 also puts too short a shaft on that 20º club.

 

It's the principle that makes "1-length" such a bad idea.

 

You can't generate the speed to elevate it to the top of its intended trajectory.

 

You have a half dozen clubs in your bag, multiple wedges, with shafts less than a yard long.

The wedges are usually 35½" or less, and you've got as many as five of them in addition to your putter.

 

So now you're not just changing cosmetic stampings. You're changing the overall length of your set.

 

 

If it doesn't bother you, congrats, but it bothered the hell out of me. If the clubmakers won't at least let you choose the stamping on your clubs, don't go making excuses for them, Find somebody that will.

 

And that's just stampings.

Why do the modern clubs look like they're made by Fisher Price?

 

Unnecessary texture variations. Ugly colors and graphics. Stupid names.

Why are the graphite shafts so stupidly painted? I liked black.

 

I played the game for fun. If the equipment pissed me off, I wasn't having fun.

 

If I were able to still play, a big part of my fun would be beating the system and putting together a set that didn't embarrass me more than my limited talent does.

Saw this post coming from a mile away.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 9

:titelist-small: TS1 10.5 Fubuki 45g Shaft

:taylormade-small: SIM Max 5w 18* Ventus Black 

:ping-small:  G410 FW 7,9 Alta CB R flex 

:ping-small: G410 Hybrid 26 degree Alta CB R Flex

:titelist-small: T300 KBS TGI 80 5 iron thorugh 46 W2

:vokey-small: SM7 50.08, 54.08 and 58.14 

:scotty-small:  Phantom 5.5   35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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Ran right into it! :D

 

 

Saw this post coming from a mile away. 


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy 


:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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