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Modern Irons are here to stay


chisag

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Well, let's get it out of the way right now that I've got a flip phone because I thought that my smart phone truly sucked and i tossed it in a drawer, never to look at it again. As for the actual subject....

 

....the moderns irons are a disgrace, chisag.  They really are.

 

 

Forget the stampings on the sole, not that I ever will.

 

We now have lofts on shafts that aren't the right length for them.  Stamping a 4 onto a club that should be a 2 also puts too short a shaft on that 20º club. 

 

It's the principle that makes "1-length"  such a bad idea.

 

You can't generate the speed to elevate it to the top of its intended trajectory.

 

You have a half dozen clubs in your bag, multiple wedges, with shafts less than a yard long. 

The wedges are usually 35½" or less, and you've got as many as five of them in addition to your putter.

 

So now you're not just changing cosmetic stampings. You're changing the overall length of your set.

 

 

If  it doesn't bother you, congrats, but it bothered the hell out of me.  If the clubmakers won't at least let you choose the stamping on your clubs, don't go making excuses for them,  Find somebody that will.

 

And that's just stampings.

Why do the modern clubs look like they're made by Fisher Price?

 

Unnecessary texture variations. Ugly colors and graphics.  Stupid names.

Why are the graphite shafts so stupidly painted? I liked black.

 

I played the game for fun.  If the equipment pissed me off, I wasn't having fun.

 

If I were able to still play, a big part of my fun would be beating the system and putting together a set that didn't embarrass me more than my limited talent does.

 

 

... As a rebuttal. the ball doesn't care what the clubs hitting it looks like. Nor does the scorecard care what the lofts or lengths are. And you seem to forget their are generations growing up with modern equipment that think the stuff we learned the game playing are archaic and do not have any synergy with todays ball. 

 

... I understand and appreciate your opinion. I have been going to the PGA Show and demoing as well as writing reviews of all the new equipment so my opinion is fundamentally different. I have seen and been the recipient of incremental changes that all made playing the game just a little easier and more fun. Transitioning from traditional (traditional to an older generation) muscle back blades to solid one piece forged perimeter weighted CD's to today's multi material irons that are the best of all worlds. When I started using DCI 762B in my 7-3 irons to compliment my 690MB's I knew what the future would be like. That said, on any given swing with modern irons I can still slice or hook, hit it fat or thin and miss the center losing yardage and distance, so they have not taken the skill out of the game, they are just tools to help this era of power players get the best out of todays lower spinning balls in the long game and higher spinning balls in the short game.    

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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My one bone to pick with the players distance category is the lack of spin - I'm sure that will be tackled with the next iteration of them.

 

 

 

... There is a method to the madness. Like the TP5x that spins a little less and launches a little higher creating more distance for better players, players distance irons depend on a little less spin to reach peak height and still have a good angle of descent that isn't too steep or too flat. Lower spin was one of the draws for me. 

 

... And since you are in Florida where it can get pretty windy, I would think you might appreciate the lower spin. I took my Honma 737's out for a round a few weeks ago on a windy day and was faced with a 151 yd shot dead into a 20+ wind. I hit a knockdown 6 iron that should have gotten me to the front of the green but because of the added spin compared to my P790's, I came up 10 yds short and barely cleared the water. I think distance players irons are designed with lower spin by design. If they come up with a Distance GI, I imagine they will have a little more spin to keep the ball in the air longer for slower swing speed players. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I honestly just don't get the complaints about newer tech & lofts, I truly don't. As with ANYTHING that's updated, such as a phone, or a piece of software, or a new microwave, you take a few minutes to learn it, adapt, and then use it. 

 

Tech that makes the game more fun and easier is a win-win, for all the previously mentioned great reasons. With the way perimeter weighting has changed, along with advances in materials, lofts need to change to make sure balls don't pop up straight in the air. It is what it is. Don't like it? Keep playing those blades from the 50's if you want. No one's stopping anyone from playing what they want. 

 

But griping about changes simply "just because" is a waste of everyone's time and energy. 

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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We now have lofts on shafts that aren't the right length for them.  Stamping a 4 onto a club that should be a 2 also puts too short a shaft on that 20º club. 

 

It's the principle that makes "1-length"  such a bad idea.

 

 

I think you are mistaken here. No fitter worth his/her salt is putting a 4i shaft of old into a modern 4i. The fitter understands what the loft of the club means and what length of shaft suits that club based on your swing metrics. I am talking about a real fitter and not the launch monitor goons at your local globo-golf center.

 

1-length shafts a bad idea though?  DeChambeau? Again, fitting is key here. 

Bag: Bennington Quiet Organizer 9-Lite (link)

Cart: :Clicgear: 3.5+

Driver:  :cobra-small:  F9 speedback, Accra iWood

Woods:  Sonartec GS Tour 14*, Fujikura Six S
DI:  :titelist-small:  T-MB 2 iron, KBS Tour-V 120 X,
Irons: :Miura: PP-9003SN 4-GW, Nippon 1150GH Stiff
Wedges: :Miura: 1957 K-grind SW, LW, Nippon 1150GH Stiff
Putter: :odyssey-small: EXO Indianapolis (link)
Ball: :Snell: MTB
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...the ball doesn't care what the clubs hitting it looks like. Nor does the scorecard care what the lofts or lengths are. And you seem to forget their are generations growing up with modern equipment that think the stuff we learned the game playing are archaic and do not have any synergy with todays ball. 

 

Truer words were never spoken.

 

And my humble $.02, the scorecard does not care what your shot shape looked like.

 

The goal of the game is to get the ball into the cup in the fewest strokes.  This is not gymnastics, ice skating, or diving where style points matter. 

 

Your clubs can look however you prefer, as well as the shot shape.  Just get the ball in the hole as quickly as possible.

In my :cobra-small: Ultralight Stand Bag:

Driver:    :callaway-small: Rogue 10.5° - LH -  Project X EvenFlow 60 Stiff
Woods:   :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 3/4 Wood - Atmos Blue TS 7 Stiff
               :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 5/6 Wood - Atmos Blue TS 7 Stiff
Irons:      :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 5-GW - KBS C-Taper Lite Stiff
Wedges: :cobra-small: King Black - LH - 52° 56° 60° - KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 Stiff
Putter:     :1332069271_TommyArmour: - Impact No. 3
Ball:        Maxfli TourX

Rangefinder: :skycaddie: LX5 Watch

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Nobody else sees my problems as problems.  I understand that, now.

But once the number / loft correlations changed, putting together a set configuration got considerably harder for me.

 

Technology is great as long as it fits. 

But if it comes down to a choice of primitive technology that's well-fitted

or up-to-date technology that isn't,

I've got to go with the former.

Those adjustable hosels, already an abomination being moving parts on a golf club,

cannot  arrive at the loft / lie / face angle combinations that I need.

The boutique brands, with less modern tech,  can.

 

There are still boutique companies that can give me what I want at a very stiff price.

The OEM's don't care what I want. They want me to want what they offer.

 

Then we suddenly face up to the reality that now I can't play.

I've got too much time to think about stuff like this.

But at the end of my run, I was using twenty year old stuff because it was closer to

the forty year old stuff that I really wanted.

 

The scorecard doesn't care what equipment I use?

I don't record good numbers with clubs that are too strong lofted, too upright, too closed faced, too much bounce, and improperly gapped.

 

 

 

 

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Nobody else sees my problems as problems. I understand that, now.

But once the number / loft correlations changed, putting together a set configuration got considerably harder for me.

 

Technology is great as long as it fits.

But if it comes down to a choice of primitive technology that's well-fitted

or up-to-date technology that isn't,

I've got to go with the former.

Those adjustable hosels, already an abomination being moving parts on a golf club,

cannot arrive at the loft / lie / face angle combinations that I need.

The boutique brands, with less modern tech, can.

 

There are still boutique companies that can give me what I want at a very stiff price.

The OEM's don't care what I want. They want me to want what they offer.

 

Then we suddenly face up to the reality that now I can't play.

I've got too much time to think about stuff like this.

But at the end of my run, I was using twenty year old stuff because it was closer to

the forty year old stuff that I really wanted.

I'm a 50/54/58 or 60 wedge setup. I've played a few sets with pw at 44-45” degrees and had no problem putting together a set with god gapping from top to bottom. Add a wedge, take out a wedge, bend a wedge or two replace an iron for hybrid for forgiveness. Also helped my game to learn to flight shots and hit different clubs to different distances depending on flag location.

 

I've also played cb/mb setups and made very few changes to bag setup.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I'm a 50/54/58 or 60 wedge setup. I've played a few sets with pw at 44-45” degrees and had no problem putting together a set with god gapping from top to bottom. Add a wedge, take out a wedge, bend a wedge or two replace an iron for hybrid for forgiveness. Also helped my game to learn to flight shots and hit different clubs to different distances depending on flag location.

 

I've also played cb/mb setups and made very few changes to bag setup.

 

 

... Golf always was and always will be about having proper gapping between clubs so that every yardage is covered without having to manipulate shots. Granted better players can and will manipulate shots to suit conditions, but in most normal conditions, hitting full shots is always preferable. Most of us have had those rounds where it seems like every shot was a perfect yardage to the green and those days are when we shoot our best scores. Of course we have also had those days where it seems like every distance is right between two clubs. But as long as you can hit either club, taking a little off one or hitting the other with a full swing, it makes no difference what is on your clubs or how many wedges you carry.

 

... Fwiw, my son has power to spare and carries his driver 280+ and hits his 5 iron 230, so the higher lofts in his bag are much more important than the lower lofts in his bag. He carries 4 wedges with a 60-56-52-48 where I carry my driver 235ish and hit my 5 iron 190 so I have 3 wedges 58-52-46 because I need more clubs in my lower lofts.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I'm gonna run out of LIKES if chisag keeps posting...

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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Great posts and perspectives by everyone. I am in the don't care what number is on the bottom of the club, I just want to know how far I hit a particular club camp and have a set where I know my gaps.

 

No matter what, you legally are only allowed 14 clubs; and you get to figure out how to assemble the set. As we get older and get less distance the number of clubs should probably decrease as there just isn't enough gapping between clubs. I think irons “sets” will eventually go away and people will just buy all clubs individually to fit their needs.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Modern irons are here to stay.

They will never die.

It was meant to be that way

Though I don't know why.

I don't care what people say.

Modern irons are here to stay.

 

Just not for me.

This is as modern as I  can handle...if, by some miracle, i ever find myself on a course again.

The Nifty Set  X.png

 

 

 

 

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... Golf always was and always will be about having proper gapping between clubs so that every yardage is covered without having to manipulate shots. Granted better players can and will manipulate shots to suit conditions, but in most normal conditions, hitting full shots is always preferable. Most of us have had those rounds where it seems like every shot was a perfect yardage to the green and those days are when we shoot our best scores. Of course we have also had those days where it seems like every distance is right between two clubs. But as long as you can hit either club, taking a little off one or hitting the other with a full swing, it makes no difference what is on your clubs or how many wedges you carry.

 

... Fwiw, my son has power to spare and carries his driver 280+ and hits his 5 iron 230, so the higher lofts in his bag are much more important than the lower lofts in his bag. He carries 4 wedges with a 60-56-52-48 where I carry my driver 235ish and hit my 5 iron 190 so I have 3 wedges 58-52-46 because I need more clubs in my lower lofts.

While I agree it's better to have full shots, to me golf has been about creativity and shot shaping. I'm a fan of Seve and Trevino. Controlling spin into greens based on flag location can't always be done with full swings and while yeah it's ptobavly a better players approach, learning to play less than full shots helped my full swing improvement because it's not about going 100% on every swing which is an area of the game I think amateurs can benefit from. Instead of swinging all out, pullan extra club and swing smoother.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Modern irons are here to stay.

They will never die.

It was meant to be that way

Though I don't know why.

I don't care what people say.

Modern irons are here to stay.

 

Just not for me.

This is as modern as I  can handle...if, by some miracle, i ever find myself on a course again.

 

 

Pff those irons you want are perimeter weighted!  And those woods aren't woods they are steel!  Those were modern at some point; they replaced persimmon woods and muscle backs.

 

There are probably some old(er) coots somewhere shaking their fists at you for wanting to play with all this new fangled technology (relative to them).

 

And you brag about still using a flip phone - but man what about a car phone - or a pay phone.  Heck - you should be typing your posts out on a typewriter and sending them to MGS HQ via carrier pigeon

 

What's old to you was new to someone else.  It will always be that way.

 

old.jpg

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Let's talk Bryson for a moment in this thread.

 

What he's doing right now is great for golf if the viewer understands and doesn't automatically think that he should run out and buy single length irons.  If instead he thinks, "Hey this guy is gaining an edge because he's bold enough to play what works best for him rather than what others are saying he should," then perhaps he will think, "I wonder what will work best for me?"  That's the question.

 

@chisag I've heard the line on the higher launch, lower spin, greater descent as a means for stopping the ball.  My issue is that my SS is not that high so what appears on the surface to be right for me isn't - I need a bit more spin.  I actually gained yardage and accuracy by moving out of a players distance iron and into a GI that had a little more loft on each iron but also produces a bit more spin.  I made that switch on a fitters recommendation (I wish I could take credit.)

 

But of course that makes your point - we are individuals and need to carefully determine what the best set make up will be for our games.  Additionally there is a wide enough variety of equipment out there that our needs can be filled.  It's a fun time to play golf.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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While I agree it's better to have full shots, to me golf has been about creativity and shot shaping. I'm a fan of Seve and Trevino. Controlling spin into greens based on flag location can't always be done with full swings and while yeah it's ptobavly a better players approach, learning to play less than full shots helped my full swing improvement because it's not about going 100% on every swing which is an area of the game I think amateurs can benefit from. Instead of swinging all out, pullan extra club and swing smoother.

 

 

... They were a joy to watch and a balata ball was easier to control for shots like that. With the modern ball and clubs that are designed to go straight, it is more difficult to work a shot to a back right or left pin placement. Of course it can be done, it is just more difficult.

 

... But I agree with you 100% that learning to control your trajectory and hitting 3/4 or 1/2 shots is paramount to great iron play. I rarely hit a full sw or pw as I prefer a lower trajectory I have more control over, especially if playing in windy conditions. But faced with a 105yd shot to a green with a middle or back pin placement, that is a perfect sw distance for me, but I prefer to hit a 3/4 pw because the lower flight and one hop and stop shot is more accurate than throwing my SW straight up and hoping the wind does not effect it or it does not spin back too much. 

 

... One of the things I tried to impress on my students was guys on Tour hit their wedges lower than Am's but hit their other clubs higher. Very few Am's hit anything too high, with the exception of their wedges. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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... One of the things I tried to impress on my students was guys on Tour hit their wedges lower than Am's but hit their other clubs higher. Very few Am's hit anything too high, with the exception of their wedges. 

 

Funny you mention that - I am working on getting my wedge apex down.  Really happy with my iron flight (115-120 ft apex)

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Funny you mention that - I am working on getting my wedge apex down.  Really happy with my iron flight (115-120 ft apex)

I have a friend who's probably a +2 or so at least that was before he had his first kid about 10 months ago, first time I ever warmed up with him on the range, it was startling to see the difference in his wedge height vs. mine.  I've tried ever since then to get it down even close to that level.   It may be one of the hardest things in golf for the average player--8 to 18 index--to learn, at least in my mind.  

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:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

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I have a friend who's probably a +2 or so at least that was before he had his first kid about 10 months ago, first time I ever warmed up with him on the range, it was startling to see the difference in his wedge height vs. mine.  I've tried ever since then to get it down even close to that level.   It may be one of the hardest things in golf for the average player--8 to 18 index--to learn, at least in my mind.  

 

Yeah my brother in law used to be an assistant pro and the biggest difference between our two games is how he controls his wedges.  Made me realize that my approach game is the weakest part of my game.

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. I've tried ever since then to get it down even close to that level. It may be one of the hardest things in golf for the average player--8 to 18 index--to learn, at least in my mind.

More club, less than full swing. Learned that in a playin lesson years ago. I hit full wedge into a hole location and he told me to hit 9 iron. Better control, closer to the pin, lower ball flight. Don't always do this today, but I don't do a lot of things I should.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Wow a lot to decipher here. In reading the whole thread everyone has great points and there really is no one that is wrong. 

I went for a full bag fitting just before the P790's came out. I had not been up to date on the new releases and how they were changing everything before I got fit. So it was a complete experiment when I purchased them. The biggest issue I could see was of course the gaping. I will be honest I was scared with the lofts on the irons. It does me no good to hit a PW 150 yards. So I asked the fitter if I could select my own lofts, of course he let me do so but when he saw the lofts I selected he asked me 3 different times if I was sure that is what I wanted. And honestly I wasn't sure but I figured I could adjust in the future if they didn't work. My 7 iron is a 1960's 5 iron, a 1980's weak 5 iron, a 2000's strong 6 iron and a modern 7 iron. My 4 iron is really a 3 iron or even a 2 iron. BUT MY GAPING IS PERFECT. These changes have been happening for 50 years. It has not been an overnight change. The top end of the bag has gotten much longer in the last 50 years for everyone and with that comes changes to compensate for that. My Arccos smart distance on my driver is 293 and my 3w is 275, that leaves 140 yards to cover with 8 clubs (I base this off my 135 pw). That distance can't be covered with old loft standards, it must be adjusted. My gaping when I first started playing in 1995 was 10 yards between clubs, now its 15. And now I can cover that 140 yards effectively. Also I would imagine in 10 years all my lofts will be different again. 

 

I guess my point in my ramble is that change always happens and its how we adjust to the change that matters, we can't stop it. 

 

Chisag, thanks for started this thread, great topic and discussion with all the equipment changes that are currently ongoing. 

 

Nifty, I love your posts, I find them humorous and a different perspective, keep them coming. I wish you were healthy enough to play. 

 

Rev, I agree the spin is an issue. When I got fit I was 1000 rpms less, about one club, than my MP-64's. For me it was eyeopening but not a deal breaker because I have never had any issue with spin. I have switched to an AVX, so I am probably closer to 1300-1400 less than previously. What I have found is that in play the stopping power is actually greater now. I do not see the ball hit the green and spin like it used to, which is difficult to control, but the ball hits and takes one bounce backwards and stops there. I understand that I have a different flight from most and that what works for me won't work for everyone. 

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I have a friend who's probably a +2 or so at least that was before he had his first kid about 10 months ago, first time I ever warmed up with him on the range, it was startling to see the difference in his wedge height vs. mine.  I've tried ever since then to get it down even close to that level.   It may be one of the hardest things in golf for the average player--8 to 18 index--to learn, at least in my mind.  

 

 

... Rob, I hear ya and I think it is a lot like green side bunker shots. They seem so daunting initially, because they are, but once you "get it" they are pretty easy to play. They are both different kinds of shots that cannot be compared to full swing shots. You may not get close, but using the right technique makes bunker shots and low wedges easy to find the green. That said, some never get the hang of either because it is a completely different mental and physical adjustment. 

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This might be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. Why do you want lower flight with wedges? I use all wedges for full swings and change ball position for distance control. Using CBX wedges I expect high shots and if I club down and go easy I have bigger misses.

 

 

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This might be a dumb question but I'll ask anyway. Why do you want lower flight with wedges? I use all wedges for full swings and change ball position for distance control. Using CBX wedges I expect high shots and if I club down and go easy I have bigger misses.

 

 

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Sometimes high shots spin back too much and with a lower ball flight you can hit a low hop and stop shot. It is about more distance control.

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Sometimes high shots spin back too much and with a lower ball flight you can hit a low hop and stop shot. It is about more distance control.

Thanks, a part of me would rather suck one back than have a tap in.

 

 

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More club, less than full swing. Learned that in a playin lesson years ago. I hit full wedge into a hole location and he told me to hit 9 iron. Better control, closer to the pin, lower ball flight. Don't always do this today, but I don't do a lot of things I should.

You've seen my game, i rarely take a full swing with a driver, let alone a wedge.  I've always been a 3/4 max wedge swing player.  But still have trouble with the height. 

 

... Rob, I hear ya and I think it is a lot like green side bunker shots. They seem so daunting initially, because they are, but once you "get it" they are pretty easy to play. They are both different kinds of shots that cannot be compared to full swing shots. You may not get close, but using the right technique makes bunker shots and low wedges easy to find the green. That said, some never get the hang of either because it is a completely different mental and physical adjustment. 

Good point.  I'm much better at the bunker shot than I am with the wedge flighting.   One I practiced bunker shots a lot until I got confident in hitting behind the ball and letting the bounce do the work.   Like you said, I may not get them as close as a single digit or scratch player, but I get them out at least 9 out of 10 times and  at least have a putt at it.  

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But, you still have to hit the shot with whatever club you hit. My AP2's are probably closer to "traditional lofts", but I don't really care because I know exactly how far they go.

Once I get past 200 yds its a crap shoot anyways. Im thrilled to hit a green past 200.

 

the new irons spin less, but come in steeper in the videos I've seen, so they still stop.

 

I think shafts are probably still the most important part of any given club, so even with the new, you've got to get the right shafts.

 

I can't say anything bad about the new clubs as I think one needs to game them for at least a few rounds in order to be a realistic voice. But I still don't think everyone needs to go buy a set just because they're longer. I do think the new tech helps tho, as my clubs have tungsten inserts etc. And I think they're easier to hit than my old MP64's, but I don't think they're any longer by any means.

 

You just need to know how far your current clubs go. thats the whole key.

 

I was interested in the wedge flighting conversation though, and I think I need to experiment with that as I.m probably leaving something on the table with not knowing how to do all that stuff, at least to the level you guys were talking...

 

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But griping about changes simply "just because" is a waste of everyone's time and energy. 

I can help you with this.

The forum format allows us to just skip the threads that don't interest us.

And if we like the thread, we can still skip any boring posts within it.

Just keep scrolling until you find a contributor that you like.

 

Once one acquires a proficiency for this methodology, wasted time and energy is minimized significantly.

It's all good, Russ.  See the beagle, just keep scrolling.  I hope this helps.

 

Nifty.

 

 

 

 

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Although I love my “players irons” I am interested at trying a set of more forgiving irons in a compact head shape. Even slightly more forgiving would satisfy me. Any suggestions?

 

 

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