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Oldie but Goodie


ConnorWade

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Recently I have been feeling like I'm getting Stuck with my current irons (TaylorMade RSi TP) and have decided to go back to my old faithful Cleveland GunMetal TA5 irons from 2001. There has just always been something about these irons that just work!

 

In light of Tiger going back to his OG Scotty putter I wanted to see who else has a older go to club that they just can't get rid of and always falls back on it?!Image1536156873.564902.jpgImage1536156879.164974.jpg

 

 

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:callaway-small:  GBB Epic Sub Zero 8* | Aldila Rogue Max 75 X

:cobra-small: King LTD Black 13.5* |  Aldila Rogue 85 X

:cobra-small: King Utility Iron 18* | Aldila Rogue 95 MSI 85H S

 RSi TP P-4 | True Temper Dynamic Golf S300

 52* RTX 588 Black

 56* CG14 GunMetal

:cleveland-small: 60* CG14 Camo

 O-Works 7s Black | Super Stroke 3.0 Slim @ 36"

 SuperSoft

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I bet its the offset on the TA5's compared to the RSi TP's

*:taylormade-small: Staff Professional*

Driver:  :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus+ (7.25*) - Fujikura Ventus Black 6X Tipped 1" 

3 Wood: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus+ (14.25*) - Fujikura Ventus Blue 7x Tipped 1"

Driving Iron: :taylormade-small: P790 UDI 2 iron - HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 100 6.5

4 Iron: :taylormade-small: P790 - KBS C-Taper 130 X

Irons (5-7) :taylormade-small: P7MC - KBS C-Taper 130 X

Irons (8-P) :taylormade-small: P7MB - KBS C-Taper 130 X

Wedges: :taylormade-small: MG3 Black 50.09 / 55.11 - KBS TOUR FLT 130 X

60* Wedge: :taylormade-small: High Toe Raw - KBS Tour 130 X

Putter: 5WoCG8Y.jpg Custom Black ER2 or Custom Black :taylormade-small: Del Monte

Bag:  :taylormade-small: FlexTech Stand Bag

Glove:  :taylormade-small: Tour Preferred Glove

Ball: :taylormade-small: TP5X #11

RangeFinder: :918457628_PrecisionPro: R1 Smart Rangefinder

Instagram: @dpattgolf

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I have a hard time getting rid of both my Titleist 913H.d 2 hybrid and 915F.d 3 wood despite both being decently older than everything else in my bag and being a bit beat up. 

*:taylormade-small: Staff Professional*

Driver:  :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus+ (7.25*) - Fujikura Ventus Black 6X Tipped 1" 

3 Wood: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus+ (14.25*) - Fujikura Ventus Blue 7x Tipped 1"

Driving Iron: :taylormade-small: P790 UDI 2 iron - HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 100 6.5

4 Iron: :taylormade-small: P790 - KBS C-Taper 130 X

Irons (5-7) :taylormade-small: P7MC - KBS C-Taper 130 X

Irons (8-P) :taylormade-small: P7MB - KBS C-Taper 130 X

Wedges: :taylormade-small: MG3 Black 50.09 / 55.11 - KBS TOUR FLT 130 X

60* Wedge: :taylormade-small: High Toe Raw - KBS Tour 130 X

Putter: 5WoCG8Y.jpg Custom Black ER2 or Custom Black :taylormade-small: Del Monte

Bag:  :taylormade-small: FlexTech Stand Bag

Glove:  :taylormade-small: Tour Preferred Glove

Ball: :taylormade-small: TP5X #11

RangeFinder: :918457628_PrecisionPro: R1 Smart Rangefinder

Instagram: @dpattgolf

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Very nice set of clubs. The Cleveland TA5 and TA7 are some of my all-time favorite irons. Good luck with them!

 

I've got a 1950's H&B putter I bought at a yard sale in 2004 for $5. I used it for years with great success. Then after returning to golf from a hiatus of a few years I was worried that I needed something modern.

 

Well, after trying high MOI, mallets, face balances, milled, etc; I finally put my H&B back in the bag two weeks ago and had my best putting round in a long time, including 5 consecutive 1-putts my last round.

 

Sometimes familiarity beats technology.

 

EB6B52CD-17F7-44EC-A740-DF1B56F4BFF3.JPG

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

WITB:

Stan Thompson “Reactionizer” persimmon woods 1-4

Spalding Tour Edition 3-PW

Spalding Top-Flite E.V.A. Sand Club

Rife Legend Z Putter

 

 

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I bet its the offset on the TA5's compared to the RSi TP's

That and I think they built the TA5s with a touch black magic.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

:callaway-small:  GBB Epic Sub Zero 8* | Aldila Rogue Max 75 X

:cobra-small: King LTD Black 13.5* |  Aldila Rogue 85 X

:cobra-small: King Utility Iron 18* | Aldila Rogue 95 MSI 85H S

 RSi TP P-4 | True Temper Dynamic Golf S300

 52* RTX 588 Black

 56* CG14 GunMetal

:cleveland-small: 60* CG14 Camo

 O-Works 7s Black | Super Stroke 3.0 Slim @ 36"

 SuperSoft

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Very nice set of clubs. The Cleveland TA5 and TA7 are some of my all-time favorite irons. Good luck with them!

 

I've got a 1950's H&B putter I bought at a yard sale in 2004 for $5. I used it for years with great success. Then after returning to golf from a hiatus of a few years I was worried that I needed something modern.

 

Well, after trying high MOI, mallets, face balances, milled, etc; I finally put my H&B back in the bag two weeks ago and had my best putting round in a long time, including 5 consecutive 1-putts my last round.

 

Sometimes familiarity beats technology.

 

attachicon.gif EB6B52CD-17F7-44EC-A740-DF1B56F4BFF3.JPG

 

 

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Love it!! Sometimes it just needs to feel good to you and then nothing else matters!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

:callaway-small:  GBB Epic Sub Zero 8* | Aldila Rogue Max 75 X

:cobra-small: King LTD Black 13.5* |  Aldila Rogue 85 X

:cobra-small: King Utility Iron 18* | Aldila Rogue 95 MSI 85H S

 RSi TP P-4 | True Temper Dynamic Golf S300

 52* RTX 588 Black

 56* CG14 GunMetal

:cleveland-small: 60* CG14 Camo

 O-Works 7s Black | Super Stroke 3.0 Slim @ 36"

 SuperSoft

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There's not a set of old irons I have that I'd want to go back to. Several reasons. Poorly fit to my current ability being the first reason. Secondly, some of my irons are 10-20 years old and like the clubs I've gotten older too. Lastly they are not as forgiving as my current set. Some too are old blades and I'm not about to touch those old beasts again.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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Love it!! Sometimes it just needs to feel good to you and then nothing else matters!

 

 

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Absolutely. I think with all equipment it's a matter of understanding how it works. Some clubs we just “get”, we know exactly how to swing them to make them perform. Many times we are told that a club is superior due to technological advances but we don't quite know how to swing it. Hence why I've played narrow sole irons my whole life.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

WITB:

Stan Thompson “Reactionizer” persimmon woods 1-4

Spalding Tour Edition 3-PW

Spalding Top-Flite E.V.A. Sand Club

Rife Legend Z Putter

 

 

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Absolutely. I think with all equipment it's a matter of understanding how it works. Some clubs we just “get”, we know exactly how to swing them to make them perform. Many times we are told that a club is superior due to technological advances but we don't quite know how to swing it. Hence why I've played narrow sole irons my whole life.

 

 

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It's so easy to get sucked into the new clubs that are better than what you have. Makes you doubt what you play even if it works well for you. Sometimes if it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

:callaway-small:  GBB Epic Sub Zero 8* | Aldila Rogue Max 75 X

:cobra-small: King LTD Black 13.5* |  Aldila Rogue 85 X

:cobra-small: King Utility Iron 18* | Aldila Rogue 95 MSI 85H S

 RSi TP P-4 | True Temper Dynamic Golf S300

 52* RTX 588 Black

 56* CG14 GunMetal

:cleveland-small: 60* CG14 Camo

 O-Works 7s Black | Super Stroke 3.0 Slim @ 36"

 SuperSoft

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There's not a set of old irons I have that I'd want to go back to. Several reasons. Poorly fit to my current ability being the first reason. Secondly, some of my irons are 10-20 years old and like the clubs I've gotten older too. Lastly they are not as forgiving as my current set. Some too are old blades and I'm not about to touch those old beasts again.

I'm with this guy. If everyone wants to go back a decade or two with their irons Plaid and I will gladly take you on so long as we are all using are current handicaps. :)

 

The technology improved cements in irons make this a tough move. As someone observed it's more than likely that the OPs current set is not a good fit for his swing type.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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For me - it is the Maxfli Rev black. I still look at these in the garage with fond memories. Always put the ball where I wanted to with this set. It was never fit and is, in fact, 1" shorter than my current fitted irons. These were zero offset, my current set has some offset and I notice it.

maxfli-revolution-black-dot-iron-reg_1_7

Bag: Bennington Quiet Organizer 9-Lite (link)

Cart: :Clicgear: 3.5+

Driver:  :cobra-small:  F9 speedback, Accra iWood

Woods:  Sonartec GS Tour 14*, Fujikura Six S
DI:  :titelist-small:  T-MB 2 iron, KBS Tour-V 120 X,
Irons: :Miura: PP-9003SN 4-GW, Nippon 1150GH Stiff
Wedges: :Miura: 1957 K-grind SW, LW, Nippon 1150GH Stiff
Putter: :odyssey-small: EXO Indianapolis (link)
Ball: :Snell: MTB
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I'm with this guy. If everyone wants to go back a decade or two with their irons Plaid and I will gladly take you on so long as we are all using are current handicaps. :)

 

The technology improved cements in irons make this a tough move. As someone observed it's more than likely that the OPs current set is not a good fit for his swing type.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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An alternate view, Rev, is that golf club technology was mature  fifty years ago,

and if we want to modify that to thirty years ago,

I accept the premise immediately.

 

These companies have to release new models on schedule, and I absolutely don't believe that tech is coming close to advancing at the pace of the new release schedules. 

 

The TaylorMade CEO made that very admission on television about five or so years ago.

 

In all of sports,

 

both recreational sports and spectator sports entertainment,

 

every decision is decided on the criterion of what maximizes revenue; and that being the case,

then by definition, what's good for the sport is NOT the primary criterion.

 

The way real rather than manufactured demand for high end golf clubs would naturally exist,

new clubs wouldn't need to be made at all until they were ordered.

Used clubs would meet the demand for immediate club sales.

which, unfortunately for a great sport, is waning.

 

I'd love to see how fast golf club designs would evolve if they were all made to order

 

Just a view from a different place.

 

 

 

 

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These companies have to release new models on schedule, and I absolutely don't believe that tech is coming close to advancing at the pace of the new release schedules. 

 

The TaylorMade CEO made that very admission on television about five or so years ago.

 

In all of sports,

 

both recreational sports and spectator sports entertainment,

 

every decision is decided on the criterion of what maximizes revenue; and that being the case,

then by definition, what's good for the sport is NOT the primary criterion.

 

 

 

... Nifty there is some truth to this, but every new club is a technical improvement over the last years clubs. Sometimes that technical improvement is so small it makes zero difference in performance. But sometimes it is a leap forward and those are the clubs that should be on someones radar if they are looking for new clubs.

 

... Contrary to popular belief, all OEMs do not make more money with a new generation of clubs. Often they lose money but it is a gamble they have to take. Talking with an OEM off the record so I cannot say which one, but was told the one year they did not release a new club they got killed in their global market because everyone has some version of the Hot List. And if your clubs are not on it, sales suffer. He said they would rather release new clubs every other year or even 3 to 4 years if their current club is really good and they have nothing new to challenge it. 

 

... He went on to show me clubs in the pipeline for the next 3 seasons. Next season was a minor tweak, mostly cosmetic but with a very small increase in some performance parameters. The 2nd year was still a tweak with again some cosmetic changes but he said they were continuing to test some variables to milk every once of performance out of that club. But the 3rd year was a new club with new technology they were still working on. Perfecting it takes time and he was sure that in 3 years it would be ready. And it was easy to see his passion for his clubs and the desire to give his customers something that will actually improve their game, so don't lump all new clubs or OEM's into one basket, especially the VP's of Engineering an Club Development that have zero to do with sales. 

 

... So a lot of what goes on behind the scenes is not as cut and dried as many would like to believe. TaylorMade released several new balls with some standard and typical marketing hype but when they came out with the TP5x they were off the charts excited and it was easy to tell this was very different than past marketing, because they knew this was not a tweak but a leap forward in ball performance. 

 

... All that said most irons, more so than other clubs, are not night and day different from irons quite a bit older. MSG just gave the top distance iron award to the Fourteen TC788 that is quite similar to the Rev Blacks already reference in this thread. They are both solid cavity back forgings with complete perimeter weighting for their design. And one thing often over looked is the confidence factor. If you have an older set of irons that are correctly fitted for you, and you love the performance and are very comfortable with using them, switching to a new irons can cause a loss in that confidence for a myriad of reasons. And improved performance never outweigh's a loss of confidence. Something ConnerWade is experiencing with his Clevelands. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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How much time do you guys have and how gigabytes does MGS have for me to list? I never get rid of my old stuff. Now I will concur that the biggest changes have been in shaft design. Now I will tell you my Callaway Forged do hit longer than my 80 Macs. Part of it is loft and part of it is shaft. Now on the metal persimmon end there is no contest the modern metals are longer I will admit. Now on metal versus metal fairways certainly steel is longer than persimmon  but sometimes newer is not better. I go back time and time again to those old V-Steel fairways. I get every one I can get my hands on. But yeah I love playing my vintage stuff for me it is all about the feel

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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The new tech could be real, or it could be a long con.

It's fun to debate about it.

 

There are specific examples, however, that are very convincing to me.

 

One would be the Titleist PT metalwoods.

 

PTs  were introduced in 1992. 

 

They're shaped exactly like post WWII model persimmon or laminated  woods.

They had not yet acquired the larger, modern metalwood look.

The stock, flatter lie angles and minutely open face angles also mimic real wood offerings from the past.

 

When you set up behind the ball, the toe does not point to the sky.

Nobody is compensating for alleged "shaft droop" with the lie angle.

 

(I called BS on that the first time that i read the term, by the way. 

They didn't compensate for "lack of shaft droop" when they went from hickory to steel.

Then I actually saw "shaft droop" on high speed images and

comparing what my lying eyes saw  to what I actually experienced,

it was still BS as far as I was concerned.)

 

When I was younger and healthy, I absolutely smoked these metals.

I used the 13º  2-wood as my driver and routinely drove the ball with 230 yards plus of carry,

 

and while internet forum contributors seem to routinely drive the ball 285 yards (especially on the other forums),

I don't recall always being the first man playing second shot., Quite the contrary.

 

The ninth at pre-redesigned Middleton was a 225 yard pancake flat par three, unprotected directly in front,

and I never failed to reach it with the 17. 

 

In fact once, I had a little too much adrenaline and bounced my tee shot off the clubhouse deck directly behind the big ninth green. People sent their  beverages flying and really gave me the business over it.

 

Now they've had a quarter century to improve on that club.  People presently burn incense at the altar of the new Cobra F8s. for example.  But as long as I was still playing the game, the good engineers at Callaway and TaylorMade and Ping  couldn't come up with a damned thing to permanently knock those PTs out of my bag.

 

Even Ttleist themselves tried a through-bore version of the very same club a few years later and it wasn't as good from what I could tell.    I hit driving-iron looking line drives, losing carry, trying the through-bore PTs.

 

So now the question is, what hype do you believe over your own results?

 

 

 

 

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I'm with this guy. If everyone wants to go back a decade or two with their irons Plaid and I will gladly take you on so long as we are all using are current handicaps. :)

 

The technology improved cements in irons make this a tough move. As someone observed it's more than likely that the OPs current set is not a good fit for his swing type.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I'm never said that it's “better” I just find that sometimes I go back to it because it just works. I've shot 80 several times with both sets of irons so to say one is better than the other...? Just don't put to much stock into the clubs when the user is really all that matters in the end.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

:callaway-small:  GBB Epic Sub Zero 8* | Aldila Rogue Max 75 X

:cobra-small: King LTD Black 13.5* |  Aldila Rogue 85 X

:cobra-small: King Utility Iron 18* | Aldila Rogue 95 MSI 85H S

 RSi TP P-4 | True Temper Dynamic Golf S300

 52* RTX 588 Black

 56* CG14 GunMetal

:cleveland-small: 60* CG14 Camo

 O-Works 7s Black | Super Stroke 3.0 Slim @ 36"

 SuperSoft

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The new tech could be real, or it could be a long con.

It's fun to debate about it.

 

There are specific examples, however, that are very convincing to me.

 

One would be the Titleist PT metalwoods.

 

PTs  were introduced in 1992. 

 

They're shaped exactly like post WWII model persimmon or laminated  woods.

They had not yet acquired the larger, modern metalwood look.

The stock, flatter lie angles and minutely open face angles also mimic real wood offerings from the past.

 

When you set up behind the ball, the toe does not point to the sky.

Nobody is compensating for alleged "shaft droop" with the lie angle.

 

(I called BS on that the first time that i read the term, by the way. 

They didn't compensate for "lack of shaft droop" when they went from hickory to steel.

Then I actually saw "shaft droop" on high speed images and

comparing what my lying eyes saw  to what I actually experienced,

it was still BS as far as I was concerned.)

 

When I was younger and healthy, I absolutely smoked these metals.

I used the 13º  2-wood as my driver and routinely drove the ball with 230 yards plus of carry,

 

and while internet forum contributors seem to routinely drive the ball 285 yards (especially on the other forums),

I don't recall always being the first man playing second shot., Quite the contrary.

 

The ninth at pre-redesigned Middleton was a 225 yard pancake flat par three, unprotected directly in front,

and I never failed to reach it with the 17. 

 

In fact once, I had a little too much adrenaline and bounced my tee shot off the clubhouse deck directly behind the big ninth green. People sent their  beverages flying and really gave me the business over it.

 

Now they've had a quarter century to improve on that club.  People presently burn incense at the alter of the new Cobra F8s. for example.  But as long as I was still playing the game, the good engineers at Callaway and TaylorMade and Ping  couldn't come up with a damned thing to permanently knock those PTs out of my bag.

 

Even Ttleist themselves tried a through-bore version of the very same club a few years later and it wasn't as good from what I could tell.    I hit driving-iron looking line drives, losing carry, trying the through-bore PTs.

 

So now the question is, what hype do you believe over your own results?

One of the Mods over on WRX went from modern back to vintage. He went to mid 70s Titleist Tour blades and you guessed it PT-13 woods. Today I payed strictly vintage with my 54 Hogan Precisions and a Persimmon Penna with a factory HM-40 graphite in it. I just got that Penna Tuesday and had never hit it until today. Man I was nutting that thing hitting some old Strata 90 Balata balls. Hit my old persimmon Mac DX woods too. I never carry a rangefinder when playing classic golf but estimated ( and I know that course well too) I was hitting with roll out and all about 250 with that driver. Of course this course just opened up and the fairways had sparse grass and were baked out so lots of roll. My wife and I played 36 shot 79 77 from 6100 yds at sea level. I beat the 3 Balata Stratas up pretty good the first 18 so I switched to the Wilson Duo for the second 18. Got a little more distance off the irons with the Duos but it was not really noticeable off the driver or fairways. this course has brand new greens and I was having to cut spin the short irons to get the ball to stop. Like I said I beat the Stratas pretty good but did not cut any of them

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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By the time I was in my late 20s, not cutting balatas was no problem for me, Stu.

I just stopped playing them when the Top Flite came out!

 

Before that, though, i had many opportunities to see what rubber windings looked like.

Trust me I have put the smile on many a one especially with a butter knife 2 or 3 iron. When we were kids we used to find smiley ones all around the course and would hit them to hear the windings distengrate further and watch fome funky dying Quail flights. 

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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Trust me I have put the smile on many a one especially with a butter knife 2 or 3 iron. When we were kids we used to find smiley ones all around the course and would hit them to hear the windings distengrate further and watch fome funky dying Quail flights. 

 

... One of the HUGE differences in the game then and now was hitting a balata ball off the bottom of a persimmon driver produced a horrendous shot and of course put a smile in the ball. Today hitting a premium urethane ball off the bottom of a 460cc titanium driver produces a low bullet that travels farther in the air than it should and runs for miles so the only smiling that takes place is the drivee thinking about birdie. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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My last round with a vintage set was about 5 years ago.  My venerable Tommy Armour 986 Tour persimmons and blades.  Granted, they have been upgraded since the late 80s with DGSL X-100 in the persimmons and DG Tour X7 in the irons, which fit my swing.  Playing against two buddies with their regular equipment, I was able to hang in there with them off the tee.  

 

The modern balls help tremendously.  Had I had to play a wound balata in the wind we were playing, I would have gotten killed.  

Tour Issue Callaway GBB Epic Sub Zero 9° / Graphite Design P9003 TX  OR  Tour Issue Taylormade M1 430 9.5° / Graphite Design P9003 TX                        

Tour Issue Callaway XHot 3 Deep 13° / Graphite Design DI-10 TX                    Tour Issue Callaway XHot 3 Deep 13° / Project X T1100 95g 6.5

Tour Issue Titleist 915Hd 17.5° / Graphite Design DI-105 X                                Tour Issue Callaway BB Alpha 815 18° / Graphite Design DI-105 X

Scratch AR-1 v2 3-PW / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7                                        Raw Bridgestone J15CB 3-PW / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7

Scratch FIT 54°DS and 60°DS / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7                            Bettinardi H2 Forged 54° and 60° / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7        

Rotating 8802 style putters

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Technology isn't the only thing that's changed, though.

 

The basic physical metrics have changed as well. Simple fit issues.

 

If 55º was the standard lie angle for a 43" driver,

and it absolutely was,

why would a 45½" driver have a much more upright lie angle as if it were shortened instead of lengthened?

 

I can't abide addressing the ball with the toe pointed to the sky.

 

And the fairway woods, where lie angle is more important, have gotten more upright too.

 

No adjustment sleeve on a hosel  can give you the combination of loft, lie, and face angle you specifically need.

 

Now the question becomes, how much advanced technology overcomes poor fit?

 

You're talking about spin and and trampoline effect and launch and smash factor and moi and all kinds of esoteric stuff, but what good is it if the club is too upright, the loft is too strong, and  the face is too closed?

 

That's why 25 year old Titleist PTs were preferable to the latest technology. They fit. 

 

 

 

 

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... One of the HUGE differences in the game then and now was hitting a balata ball off the bottom of a persimmon driver produced a horrendous shot and of course put a smile in the ball. Today hitting a premium urethane ball off the bottom of a 460cc titanium driver produces a low bullet that travels farther in the air than it should and runs for miles so the only smiling that takes place is the drivee thinking about birdie. 

You have been around long enough like I have and you know a lot of things have to do with one's AOA. For some reason I get a lot of overspin off of persimmon even with a modern ball and it runs like crazy. With a modern driver for me I get more carry and a lot of sidespin when I block one or fan the face open. i have a tendency from time to time to either block one or fan the face open due to my anti hook swing and set up. With the persimmon if I do that I get a lot of back spin and it will stop to a degree where a modern driver goes on and on like the energizer bunny. I have found out with modern drivers if I absolutely have to turn one over I can shut the face down and hit it towards the toe and do what I call a big sweeper hook that will run like heck. I hesitate to hit that shot because I can not really control it. I was such a hooker in my early days that i fear a hook or draw worse than most guys feat the shanks. The snap or rope hook I would rather shank one than do that. Any persimmon I can control better because the ball does not come off the face as hot as a metal. One of the reasons I gamed front line persimmons in comp until 02 or so. I was the last man standing playing persimmon on the SE Mini Tours. Some of those guys on WRX will try to BS one into thinking they can hit persimmon as far as they do metal but that aint the case. You know it Nifty knows it and I know it a persimmon will not go as far as a modern metal for me more control with the lumber but not distance

 

 LOL and back in the day I have skint cut many a balata off the tee hitting it in the bottom of a driver. LOL again one of my longest drives I hit with the persimmon Thursday I caught a Duo off the tee around the bottom two grooves and leading edge of the sole plate and just like you said it ran like heck about waist high off the ground especially on those sparse sun baked fairways we were playing. I laughed because I had just replaced the Strata 90 Balatas I had beat up the first 9. I told my wife If that had been one of those we would have seen rubber bands

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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Technology isn't the only thing that's changed, though.

 

The basic physical metrics have changed as well. Simple fit issues.

 

If 55º was the standard lie angle for a 43" driver,

and it absolutely was,

why would a 45½" driver have a much more upright lie angle as if it were shortened instead of lengthened?

 

I can't abide addressing the ball with the toe pointed to the sky.

 

And the fairway woods, where lie angle is more important, have gotten more upright too.

 

No adjustment sleeve on a hosel  can give you the combination of loft, lie, and face angle you specifically need.

 

Now the question becomes, how much advanced technology overcomes poor fit?

 

You're talking about spin and and trampoline effect and launch and smash factor and moi and all kinds of esoteric stuff, but what good is it if the club is too upright, the loft is too strong, and  the face is too closed?

 

That's why 25 year old Titleist PTs were preferable to the latest technology. They fit. 

Nifty do you know how to make a lie adjustment on a persimmon wood with a steel shaft? Using a towel over your knee? You have been around enough I know you know that one ha ha. Or you can even do it on a PT-13 with a steel shaft. I was also taught at an early age how to determine the lie on a persimmon wood by using a protractor with the neck angle to the crown. I have done it so much I can almost do it by eye. There was this old club craftsman when I was growing up that shaped and formed all his hand made persimmon woods from scratch. I was always intrigued by him. He showed me that trick or set up. He also showed me the towel trick. He did not have a fancy loft and lie machine like we do now. He adjusted loft and lie by clamping a club in a vice ane bending with a pipe wrench he had copper jaws in. He always used a flat plate with a clamp and a protractor and ruler to check things out, Sometimes if it was a minor adjustment of a degree or too he would bump it with a heavy rubber mallet. I also learned from him how to check bulge and roll on a persimmon wood. I was lucky to have watched him a lot. He did not mind showing me. I do not think he and his wife had any kids or grandkids and he told my old man he liked it that a young guy showed interest in the mechanic aspects of the club part of the game. I am sure he is long passed because he was in his mid 70s when I was 14 or so and I am darn near 61 now. I have more than likely forgotten some of the skills he taught me on the wood  working end on turning blocks etc and lack that equipment but I am sure If I got equipment and practice i could do it . I also at his hands learned about tip flex differences between bore through hosels versus non bore through and long hosels versus short hosels

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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