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I was playing in a fourball tournament last weekend and was on the 10th hole, which was adjacent to the driving range.  There was a range ball in the middle of the fairway.  While waiting on the others to play, I picked up the range ball, and threw it over towards the range.

 

How hard is that honestly?  I never used a club to move the range ball, but the purpose was serve by throwing a line drive to get rid of the offending object.  Rules issue solved.

 

Next!

I'll toss them back in the cart sometimes, but isn't it better to know you CAN chip them back without violating the rules?

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Cheaters comes in all types, from poor gamesmanship to downright “lifesaver tee” bafoons. I take pride on spotting them early in the round and put my play into place.

 

Gimmes usually swing both ways, I like to give out a few even some 5 footers, I'd look at him up and down and say you look good for it, pick it up. Then on some hole he'd asked if the put was good sometimes I'd say you didn't have it this time I want to see you putt it, most of the time people miss them. It's very difficult to make a smooth short putting stroke when you are red in the face.

 

I've been around the game for a long time and have developed a thick face and usually no one is important enough to get me mad on the course. While I'd like to think that I'm the nicest guy you'd ever played with, once I'm crossed I'll make sure you rise to the occasion or rot in hell.

 

Once I spotted a guy rolled the ball on top of a lifesaver, then I took out a roll of lifesaver from my bag. Later offer it to him, he took it and asked if I like the candy, I said no but they are a lifesaver.

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Stu...  I'm not sure that your vintage clubs are non-conforming unless there is a problem with groove spacing.  I seem to remember that ALL clubs manufactured before 1984 had V-grooves and would conform to the 2010 rule.  It was Ping who introduced the square grooves and put them closer together that started this whole mess.

 

Anyway, unless you play on Tour or in USGA-sanctioned events, the old square grooves are valid even for handicap purposes until 2024.  Supposedly, at that time the USGA will consider if the rule is working out.  It's a sore spot for me.  Sure, let's change the grooves on wedges so that 99.9% of the golfing public will have a more difficult experience, just so that the top players don't get as much spin out of the rough {read sarcasm}.

Technically from what I have been told is that they have not been tested and NOT on the conforming list that they do not conform--- Oh yeah my 82 Macs and even the 80 Macs have the same grooves as the original 70 VIPs In 70 no one knew about square grooves. A couple of years back I was going to get my AM status back and play some Carolinas Golf Association events. Have quite a few buds that play them. I did some research and talked to some of their officials. It was a quagmire of crap and misinformation. I decided then and there I did not need the crap of having my clubs certified by the USGA and submitting a certificate of conforming every time someone asked. What was funny 2 weeks after I decided not to pursue amateur golf I played in an "outlaw" pro event and placed 2nd in Super Seniors division (57 and up). No one in that event gave 2 rips what anyone played. All the groups I play in could give two hoots either. 

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 G

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I HATE when someone improves their lie! Even when we're playing casually. I compare it to playing say basketball 5 on 3 or some other example that would make another sport easier. The only defense against a golfer is the course and themselves. It's the whole idea of the sport, if you didn't like that lie and where your ball eneded up then don't hit it there next time. I don't like "gimmes" either, same instance and I don't think walking up and tapping in adds anytime on to the round either. But I do understand that people can play how they wish, that's why I either play alone or with people of like mindedness.

 

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Brew I think in regards to “gimmes” what everyone is talking about is not the walking up and tapping it in it is more so the marking a 12 inch putt, waiting for all others to putt including the guy who is 14 inches out, lining it back up then tapping it in. One to two minutes more per hole doesn't sound like much but on a crowded weekend that one to two minutes per hole can add another 40 mins to a round of golf.

 

 

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Cheaters comes in all types, from poor gamesmanship to downright “lifesaver tee” bafoons. I take pride on spotting them early in the round and put my play into place.

 

Gimmes usually swing both ways, I like to give out a few even some 5 footers, I'd look at him up and down and say you look good for it, pick it up. Then on some hole he'd asked if the put was good sometimes I'd say you didn't have it this time I want to see you putt it, most of the time people miss them. It's very difficult to make a smooth short putting stroke when you are red in the face.

 

I've been around the game for a long time and have developed a thick face and usually no one is important enough to get me mad on the course. While I'd like to think that I'm the nicest guy you'd ever played with, once I'm crossed I'll make sure you rise to the occasion or rot in hell.

 

Once I spotted a guy rolled the ball on top of a lifesaver, then I took out a roll of lifesaver from my bag. Later offer it to him, he took it and asked if I like the candy, I said no but they are a lifesaver.

Oh the lifesaver trick. Did he have a tube of Chapstick too?---- Sounds like some of those North Charlotte boys to me

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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I'll toss them back in the cart sometimes, but isn't it better to know you CAN chip them back without violating the rules?

Being that we were playing with two total strangers, I don't need to even flirt with one of those situations where it's debatable as to what constitutes a practice shot, and just casually flipping it back towards the range.  So all things being equal, I remove doubt from any potential rules violation in a tournament.

 

It's the same reason I called them over on the 1st hole after I bladed the ball into a water hazard.  I simply asked them where I should drop the ball, rather than asking them if what I was thinking was ok.  That way when I make the drop, and if there is any conversation about it later I can just point to them and say something like, "well, that's what you told me to do, so that's what I did."

 

Honestly in this situation I doubt they would have cared either way.  They just shot 29 on the front, and me and my buddy were racing towards last place in this tournament.  Sure, you want to add a few more strokes to my score?  Go right ahead, as I'm already competing for last place.

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The best thing is to play with people who play like you play.

If you join a league, the protocols of the league were already in place.

If you help form a league, you know what the majority of founding members want.

 

And if you're a stickler about playing by the rules of golf, you need to play in an environment where that view is prevalent.  That's usually a serious golf club, and everybody doesn't really have the means to do that.

 

Let's put it this way. If you play at a crowded public course, the course itself would rather you didn't walk all the way back to the tee after not being able to find your drive.

 

Is this ideal? Of course not.  It's just the way it unfortunately is.

 

Perfectly stated.  I use to play in a Boeing league and they were sticklers for rules; which was fine and I followed accordingly. When I play with friends in Yuma, we improve lies if they're total crap, offer one mulligan per round off the tee, and do gimme putts inside a foot - unless it's for a "wolf" dime  :lol:.  These are older guys, who love the game but just not overly serious. One of the reasons I no longer maintain an official handicap is because I do not play in tournaments and because those I play with choose not to follow the rules to a 'T' and that's fine with me.

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Gimmes usually swing both ways, I like to give out a few even some 5 footers, I'd look at him up and down and say you look good for it, pick it up. Then on some hole he'd asked if the put was good sometimes I'd say you didn't have it this time I want to see you putt it, most of the time people miss them. It's very difficult to make a smooth short putting stroke when you are red in the face.

I factor in their score to the situation too, and what is on the line.  If it's a dude I met on the course and there is no money on the line, and he's surging towards triple digits, I swat back the 6 footer and say, "that one's good pal."  I figure he's so frustrated already that any reprieve will take the edge off a bit.

 

On the other end of the spectrum is a co-worker I sometimes play golf with that likes to needle me back and forth not only during the round, but at work all the time.  The first year and a half I was working here he'd make a daily comment to me about, "you and Tiger Woods baby."  As in, neither me or Tiger Woods had beaten him head to head.  I was working my way back into my single digit handicap at the time, and my game wasn't all there.  But after listening to that BS for what seemed like forever, I commenced at beating the crap out of him on the golf course, and leaving skid marks between his score and mine.  I carded a nifty little 75 one day when he was pushing 90.  I haven't heard crap from him since, and he hasn't beaten me since.  I also make him putt every putt out too, as he started playing head games with me on the golf course, and not in a positive way.  We'd be 14 holes into the round, and I had him down by 2 or 3 strokes, and he'd start reminding me of our score differential between every hole, and every shot.  Something along the lines of, "I only need 3 more pars to catch up to you." as in he was assuming I would bogey in because I always choked under pressure.  So just to shut him up I'd stiff a wedge and tap in for birdie once or twice, while he was the one missing 4 footers for par.

 

It's funny too, because now he's always telling me about his latest round of golf, and it's funny how I wasn't invited.  That's fine.  I guess he got tired of me kicking his @$$ and couldn't handle the pressure.  But if we do ever play again, he'll be putting everything out, and so will I.

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I was playing in a fourball tournament last weekend and was on the 10th hole, which was adjacent to the driving range.  There was a range ball in the middle of the fairway.  While waiting on the others to play, I picked up the range ball, and threw it over towards the range.

 

How hard is that honestly?  I never used a club to move the range ball, but the purpose was serve by throwing a line drive to get rid of the offending object.  Rules issue solved.

 

Next!

From where my wife was in the #9 fairway, I couldn't throw a ball and get it halfway to the range.  So, if we don't hit it, might as well leave it.  Since the rule decision posted by DaveP043 allows it, I guess I would rather use a club than take a chance and throw my arm out.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Being that we were playing with two total strangers, I don't need to even flirt with one of those situations where it's debatable as to what constitutes a practice shot, and just casually flipping it back towards the range.  So all things being equal, I remove doubt from any potential rules violation in a tournament.

 

It's the same reason I called them over on the 1st hole after I bladed the ball into a water hazard.  I simply asked them where I should drop the ball, rather than asking them if what I was thinking was ok.  That way when I make the drop, and if there is any conversation about it later I can just point to them and say something like, "well, that's what you told me to do, so that's what I did."

 

Honestly in this situation I doubt they would have cared either way.  They just shot 29 on the front, and me and my buddy were racing towards last place in this tournament.  Sure, you want to add a few more strokes to my score?  Go right ahead, as I'm already competing for last place.

Something my old man taught me when gambling or playing comp--- Keep yourself above approach always confer with your playing competitor when proceeding under the rules. That way everyone is in tune

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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Perfectly stated.  I use to play in a Boeing league and they were sticklers for rules; which was fine and I followed accordingly. When I play with friends in Yuma, we improve lies if their total crap, offer one mulligan per round off the tee, and do gimme putts inside a foot - unless it's for a "wolf" dime  :lol:.  These are older guys, who love the game but just not overly serious. One of the reasons I no longer maintain an official handicap is because I do not play in tournaments and because those I play with choose not to follow the rules to a 'T' and that's fine with me.

That is exactly how the groups I play with do it. No one is real serious and no longer plays comps or keeps an official handicap--- 95% of the time handicaps are total BS---- Liked the old matches where we made the game and if you liked it you played it--- If you did not then maybe you adjusted--- Most of the guys I play with in the "Mafia" bunch know each others game and if we have a guest out of towner playing then someone in the group knows his game. Besides it is only a $1 per hole team match  $1 birdies and a $20 max cap. Bear and the NY Boys we do not play for one thin dime we just play. The other bunch we call the East Boys play $1 team match Nassau and 0.25 birdies with a $5 max cap

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 G

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Lifesavers...

 

Lol, never heard of that

It's funny

 

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I'm going to "assume" that 99% of us have.... and will, in the future "fudge" the rules in casual, for fun/the hell of it, play. As long as no one posts the score for handicap purposes, or there is no wager involved... who gives a s**t???

 

Even the low single digit HC's among us are really not THAT good at this game. Competition play is another animal, as is money wagered. Other than that............. screw it!

 

No wonder so many people feel that golf is for the stuffy, upper echelon of society.... and I'd find that hard to argue against.

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Lifesavers...

 

Lol, never heard of that

It's funny

Old hustler trick along with Chapstick or Vaselene on the club face. Now in some gambling circles Vaselene was as accepted as long as it was part of the game. Not USGA legal but legal in gambling circles. Some of the banter setting up a match  "grease or no grease" Decision for a player on the course  "well do I hit a wet 5 iron here or a dry 4 iron?"--- With all the gamblers around the course I grew up at the old man sold it in the pro shop along with balls and tees. Around there it was considered "equipment" Honest Truth I NEVER used the stuff. I did hit a ball off a lifesaver once showing my wife that trick with a  driver out of the fairway. Speaking of tricks I can hit a persimmon driver off the top of a 12 oz soda can. Did that trick long before John Daly even picked up a golf club. I used to practice all those old hustler trick shots. Never have tried it with a modern metal driver though

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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my last comments on this issues. First thanks for all the input, secondly, the one bud I play with, who complains about me not giving him the 'gimme' putts can out drive me by at least 50 yards or better. So if I give him the putt, should I ask for a commensurate 50 yards on my drive. No, the answer is that we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I don't mind the short relief from the tree root but my god why should someone expect a 'gimme' putt when putting is my strength, but not give my relief with driving, which is my weakness. Cheers

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Stu... I'm not sure that your vintage clubs are non-conforming unless there is a problem with groove spacing. I seem to remember that ALL clubs manufactured before 1984 had V-grooves and would conform to the 2010 rule. It was Ping who introduced the square grooves and put them closer together that started this whole mess.

 

Anyway, unless you play on Tour or in USGA-sanctioned events, the old square grooves are valid even for handicap purposes until 2024. Supposedly, at that time the USGA will consider if the rule is working out. It's a sore spot for me. Sure, let's change the grooves on wedges so that 99.9% of the golfing public will have a more difficult experience, just so that the top players don't get as much spin out of the rough {read sarcasm}.

I'll never forget Zac Johnson on playing with the Pros saying playing by the rules is brutal. If you're playing with your buddies make your own rules, have a few beers and make golf fun.

 

Regardless of how you like to play, just have fun.

 

 

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Do they REALLY? I obviously don't know exactly how your wife hit the ball back to the range, but that CAN be done without violating the rules.

Careful with this one. A flick and a full swing back are two different things. The rule states casual flick is ok but not a swing.

 

 

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I'm pretty relax when it comes to rules of the game. I often tell the beginners and high handicapper to take a practice swing in the bunkers and tee the ball up on the fairway.

 

On a certain courses that I know and know them well, I'd announced right off the bat that I'd be moving the ball if/when it rest under some trees because of the roots, and they are welcome to do so as well, there's no need breaking your wrist for that. If we are betting of course.

 

But when it comes to playing alone, I'm pretty strict and goes out of my way to count the painful penalty stroke(s), and have gone back to re-tee a few times.

 

 

 

Old hustler trick along with Chapstick or Vaselene on the club face. Now in some gambling circles Vaselene was as accepted as long as it was part of the game. Not USGA legal but legal in gambling circles. Some of the banter setting up a match  "grease or no grease" Decision for a player on the course  "well do I hit a wet 5 iron here or a dry 4 iron?"--- With all the gamblers around the course I grew up at the old man sold it in the pro shop along with balls and tees. Around there it was considered "equipment" Honest Truth I NEVER used the stuff. I did hit a ball off a lifesaver once showing my wife that trick with a  driver out of the fairway. Speaking of tricks I can hit a persimmon driver off the top of a 12 oz soda can. Did that trick long before John Daly even picked up a golf club. I used to practice all those old hustler trick shots. Never have tried it with a modern metal driver though

Lol, I remember playing with a friend of a friend for a few bucks and this guy whipped out a small jar of Vaseline to apply to “his dry lips” in the middle of summer. He's clearly better than the rest of us combine but, sometimes people just addicted to cheating. Reminds me of the character, “worm” in the rounders.

 

What I can't stand are the people who shot a triple and then said they shot a bogey. When that happens I stopped betting not even for a nickel.

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Careful with this one. A flick and a full swing back are two different things. The rule states casual flick is ok but not a swing.

 

That's why I specifically didn't say that what his wife had done was legal, I don't know how she hit that range ball.  Its also why I quoted the entire decision.  I think all of us have heard people talk about rules that were either non-existent, or only partially correct.  This way we all have the complete answer.

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Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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Brew I think in regards to “gimmes” what everyone is talking about is not the walking up and tapping it in it is more so the marking a 12 inch putt, waiting for all others to putt including the guy who is 14 inches out, lining it back up then tapping it in. One to two minutes more per hole doesn't sound like much but on a crowded weekend that one to two minutes per hole can add another 40 mins to a round of golf.

 

 

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Ah, I see. When pace of play is involved I think everything changes. I try to be as respectful to everyone's time as possible. I play public courses and if things are getting tight with groups I will pick up close ones. Public/Muni courses are different than private at least I think. Most people are crunched for time. I don't like to pick up but again, it's not just me out there.

 

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my last comments on this issues. First thanks for all the input, secondly, the one bud I play with, who complains about me not giving him the 'gimme' putts can out drive me by at least 50 yards or better. So if I give him the putt, should I ask for a commensurate 50 yards on my drive. No, the answer is that we all have our strengths and weaknesses. I don't mind the short relief from the tree root but my god why should someone expect a 'gimme' putt when putting is my strength, but not give my relief with driving, which is my weakness. Cheers

that's your buddy right there in that post, living inside your head.  The best part is that you don't even know he did it.  Golf is a mental war my man, time to strike back and play mental olympics with him in a major way.  Cause right now, he's playing you like a piano.

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In a manner of speaking, from my perspective, there may be three sets of rules:

 

1.  USGA rules-these are sometimes referred to as strict rules.

 

2.  Local rules-these are typically imposed by courses in order to accommodate course conditions and pace of play.

 

3.  Super local rules or group rules-these are rules agreed by the players to accommodate enjoyment and pace of play.

 

The important factor or consideration is that regardless of which set is to be used, they are established and agreed prior to the first tee.  Any player adhering to any given established and agreed set is not cheating.   

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That's why I specifically didn't say that what his wife had done was legal, I don't know how she hit that range ball.  Its also why I quoted the entire decision.  I think all of us have heard people talk about rules that were either non-existent, or only partially correct.  This way we all have the complete answer.

One of the reasons I have always said sometimes it would take 2 teams of Philadelphia lawyers to argue a golf ruling. If you get snowed in sometime or cooped up read a Decisions Book and you will see what I mean. Just like the law in real life open to interpretation on some stuff 

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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One of the reasons I have always said sometimes it would take 2 teams of Philadelphia lawyers to argue a golf ruling. If you get snowed in sometime or cooped up read a Decisions Book and you will see what I mean. Just like the law in real life open to interpretation on some stuff 

I don't know of any aspect of life where things are completely black or white.  The vast majority of situations in golf are easily handled with a pretty basic understanding of 5 or 6 rules, things like hazards, OB, lost balls, provisionals, I'm too lazy to make an actual list right now.  And the vast majority of golf is played on a pretty casual basis, so a really deep knowledge of the rules isn't required.  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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