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New 2019 Rules of Golf


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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I for one really like the new OB rule - particularly for causal amateur play.  No reason not to play it like a red stake hazard IMO. Speeds up play. I don't see the need to change the grounding club in the sand or double hit penalty, but have no issue if they do change.  I would still like to see a rule allowing free drop from a fairway divot - have always found that to be a goofy rule.

I agree. I think that the current OB rule is overly penal to casual golfers. As for the fairway divot, there is no reason to be punished for hitting the fairway. 

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I for one really like the new OB rule - particularly for causal amateur play.  No reason not to play it like a red stake hazard IMO. Speeds up play. I don't see the need to change the grounding club in the sand or double hit penalty, but have no issue if they do change.  I would still like to see a rule allowing free drop from a fairway divot - have always found that to be a goofy rule.

The new optional local rule for OB is no less penal than the current rule.  2 penalty strokes, coupled with dropping back where the ball is thought to be OB is worse than hitting a good provisional.  This is not like a lateral hazard, it's 2 strokes penalty instead of 1.

As for divots, they're a natural imperfection in the fairway.  Unless you want to play preferred lies every day of the year, there's no effective way to write a rule allowing relief from divot holes.  If you want to try, I'd be interested to read your take.  Please define a divot hole, and define when it no longer is a divot hole.  And really, how often do you actually end up in one, a couple of times a season ?

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Yesterday I would have left the pin in on two greens if the option were available. Our greens have firmed up and are rolling really fast. I like it actually. However, I had two rather long'ish downhill putts yesterday and definitely would have preferred to leave the pin in if I could have. I missed both putts. One rolled by about 8' and the other I left with 6". Whew! Of course my thinking was make the putts but with the speed of the greens a pin left in might stop it and it falls in; or perhaps deflects if leaving the ball close. Maybe. Who knows.

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On 11/23/2018 at 6:08 PM, DaveP043 said:

The new optional local rule for OB is no less penal than the current rule.  2 penalty strokes, coupled with dropping back where the ball is thought to be OB is worse than hitting a good provisional.  This is not like a lateral hazard, it's 2 strokes penalty instead of 1.

As for divots, they're a natural imperfection in the fairway.  Unless you want to play preferred lies every day of the year, there's no effective way to write a rule allowing relief from divot holes.  If you want to try, I'd be interested to read your take.  Please define a divot hole, and define when it no longer is a divot hole.  And really, how often do you actually end up in one, a couple of times a season ?

Well, IMO they should just make OB the same as a red stake hazard.  I also think it's not that tough to discern when your playing out of someone else's divot. In any case, our groups just move them to a non-scarred surface.  Just because the USGA can't get it right doesn't mean we can't. 👍

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10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, IMO they should just make OB the same as a red stake hazard.  I also think it's not that tough to discern when your playing out of someone else's divot. In any case, our groups just move them to a non-scarred surface.  Just because the USGA can't get it right doesn't mean we can't. 👍

In my opinion, its important to keep your golf ball somewhere on the property that we've been provided with to play golf.  After all, its usually 100 acres or more.  Failure to do so deserves a pretty serious penalty.  I had no problem with stroke and distance in that situation.  

If its easy to recognize when you're in a divot, it should be just as easy to write a clear concise rule.  And once again, I'd challenge anyone to write a proposed rule that effectively provides free relief from divots without allowing free relief everywhere in the fairway.  There's no guarantee in golf that you'll have a good lie in your fairway.  The lie might be uneven, you might be on the side of a hump, you might be in thin grass, you might be behind a tree, or you might be in a divot hole.   Divots have been around for much longer than Rules of Golf have.  

Play the ball as it lies, and play the course as you find it.  

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10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Play the ball as it lies, and play the course as you find it. 

I feel the same way. However... during the dead of winter - which is pretty mild here in Texas many times guys want to play "winter rules" meaning you may improve your lie in the fairway. This being dormant bermuda. Personally I'd rather not as the fairways aren't bad; they just get a little tighter is all. In the summer our fairways are very good. But, guys still don't want to play from a fairway divot whether sanded or not. Since there is always a bet on the line I simply shrug my shoulders and say "Sorry. We're playing the ball down". Rub O' the green pal.

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In my opinion, its important to keep your golf ball somewhere on the property that we've been provided with to play golf.  After all, its usually 100 acres or more.  Failure to do so deserves a pretty serious penalty.  I had no problem with stroke and distance in that situation.  
If its easy to recognize when you're in a divot, it should be just as easy to write a clear concise rule.  And once again, I'd challenge anyone to write a proposed rule that effectively provides free relief from divots without allowing free relief everywhere in the fairway.  There's no guarantee in golf that you'll have a good lie in your fairway.  The lie might be uneven, you might be on the side of a hump, you might be in thin grass, you might be behind a tree, or you might be in a divot hole.   Divots have been around for much longer than Rules of Golf have.  
Play the ball as it lies, and play the course as you find it.  
I agree with DaveP043, play the ball as it lies. But for the sake of argument here would be my proposed new ruling, assuming we can introduce the word "fairway" to the rulebook without too much controversy:

If a player finds their ball in the fairway and the ball is not touching any upright blades of grass, the player may move the ball up to two clubhead lengths no closer to the green without penalty.

Feel free to completely tear it apart! I think it's an alright starting point but I encourage brutal feedback.

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1 hour ago, SeeMore Putts said:


If a player finds their ball in the fairway and the ball is not touching any upright blades of grass, the player may move the ball up to two clubhead lengths no closer to the green without penalty.
 

That's not a bad start, but I still see issues.  First, if a ball is near the edge of a divot, it may touching some grass, but still present a similar problem.  The same issue would arise as grass begins to regrow, especially for divots that are fulled with a sand/seed mixture, you'd have very young grass, but still a pretty bare lie on the sand..   You could also have some bare spots, which reasonably could be called GUR, but are not marked.  Obviously you'd need to define what you mean by "move", whether that's dropping or placing, whether you can clean the ball, etc, but that's not a real problem.

 

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Golf is played in natural environment that gets best up from play, nature, etc. there’s no expectation that perfect lies exist other than on a tee box. You can have uphill, downhill, sidehill lies. Leaves, landscaping or other objects affecting your swing.  Does it suck to be in a divot? Yep. Should one be allowed to move a ball in one? Not imo, it’s golf and play the bell where it lies.

Good breaks happen just as do bad ones. No ones clamoring to make someone who gets a good bounce off tree needs to go place the ball in trouble 

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9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Golf is played in natural environment that gets best up from play, nature, etc. there’s no expectation that perfect lies exist other than on a tee box. You can have uphill, downhill, sidehill lies. Leaves, landscaping or other objects affecting your swing.  Does it suck to be in a divot? Yep. Should one be allowed to move a ball in one? Not imo, it’s golf and play the bell where it lies.

Good breaks happen just as do bad ones. No ones clamoring to make someone who gets a good bounce off tree needs to go place the ball in trouble 

You mean people actually get good bounces off trees??  I'm still waiting for one.

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10 hours ago, Kenny B said:

You mean people actually get good bounces off trees??  I'm still waiting for one.

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The new OB rule is nice. Dropping in the fairway after you blocked your drive OB? Sweeeeet

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Firstly, visit the Definitions to find out what a penalty area is.  

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/pages/definitions#definition-P

Then as far as relief is concerned, think current water hazards. The relief options will be  the same as  for a water hazard regarding yellow staked penalty areas and a lateral water hazard regarding a red staked penalty area except that for the latter you can't drop on the opposite side.  It's explained in Rule 17.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-17

The rules for a penalty area are being  relaxed compared with water hazards.  You will be able to move loose impediments,  touch the  ground or water with practice swings, when addressing the ball and with your backswing.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Colin L said:

Firstly, visit the Definitions to find out what a penalty area is.  

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/pages/definitions#definition-P

Then as far as relief is concerned, think current water hazards. The relief options will be  the same as  for a water hazard regarding yellow staked penalty areas and a lateral water hazard regarding a red staked penalty area except that for the latter you can't drop on the opposite side.  It's explained in Rule 17.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-17

The rules for a penalty area are being  relaxed compared with water hazards.  You will be able to move loose impediments,  touch the  ground or water with practice swings, when addressing the ball and with your backswing.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I read a Penalty area as an area you then drop your ball in, thats what was confusing me! Turns out I was actually confusing myself 😉 

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5 minutes ago, perseveringgolfer said:

Thanks for the clarification. I read a Penalty area as an area you then drop your ball in, thats what was confusing me! Turns out I was actually confusing myself 😉 

It now includes sand traps. It’s defibitey going to be confusing for a lot imo

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It now includes sand traps. It’s defibitey going to be confusing for a lot imo

That's not correct.  There will be 5 defined parts of the course. Bunkers and the rules concerning bunkers are a discrete part.

General Area
Putting Greens
Teeing Areas
Bunkers
Penalty Areas

See Rule  2.2
https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-2

 

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On 11/25/2018 at 12:08 PM, SeeMore Putts said:

I agree with DaveP043, play the ball as it lies. But for the sake of argument here would be my proposed new ruling, assuming we can introduce the word "fairway" to the rulebook without too much controversy:

If a player finds their ball in the fairway and the ball is not touching any upright blades of grass, the player may move the ball up to two clubhead lengths no closer to the green without penalty.

Feel free to completely tear it apart! I think it's an alright starting point but I encourage brutal feedback.

I believe the rules use the height of grass that is intended - one example: "in areas cut to fairway height or less".

On 11/25/2018 at 1:33 PM, DaveP043 said:

That's not a bad start, but I still see issues.  First, if a ball is near the edge of a divot, it may touching some grass, but still present a similar problem.  The same issue would arise as grass begins to regrow, especially for divots that are fulled with a sand/seed mixture, you'd have very young grass, but still a pretty bare lie on the sand..   You could also have some bare spots, which reasonably could be called GUR, but are not marked.  Obviously you'd need to define what you mean by "move", whether that's dropping or placing, whether you can clean the ball, etc, but that's not a real problem.

 

One way to account for this could be to use a fixed term, like "if a ball is found in player altered fairway..." and define it. Player altered fairway is a surface that is bare or primarily covered by a material other than grass/turf as the result of previous play. This would exclude bare spots not marked GUR. May not be perfect, but have an official confirm the call and move on with your day.

 

Ultimately, my friends and I grant each other relief from obvious divots in the fairway regardless of the rules. I don't think professionals should be penalized for it. If it's too easy to abuse the wording on this, I agree it is better to err on the side of no rule.

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5 hours ago, Angry Yeti said:

One way to account for this could be to use a fixed term, like "if a ball is found in player altered fairway..." and define it. Player altered fairway is a surface that is bare or primarily covered by a material other than grass/turf as the result of previous play. This would exclude bare spots not marked GUR. May not be perfect, but have an official confirm the call and move on with your day.

Ultimately, my friends and I grant each other relief from obvious divots in the fairway regardless of the rules. I don't think professionals should be penalized for it. If it's too easy to abuse the wording on this, I agree it is better to err on the side of no rule.

Another step forward, towards clarity in a definition.  I do wonder if a player's footprint in a soft area could fall under the definition of "player-altered lie in the fairway."  Another following question becomes, when is the "altered" area grown in enough so that relief is no longer justified.  One problem is that many of us will never see an official, beyond our local club pro.  Even so, proper officials need some definition to be able to rule fairly and consistently.  

I'm pretty gratified to see the reactions here, to see people actually trying to work through the wording of a rule.  In other forums, the divot-relief proponents want a change, but aren't willing to actually try to suggest something workable.

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23 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Another step forward, towards clarity in a definition.  I do wonder if a player's footprint in a soft area could fall under the definition of "player-altered lie in the fairway."  Another following question becomes, when is the "altered" area grown in enough so that relief is no longer justified.  One problem is that many of us will never see an official, beyond our local club pro.  Even so, proper officials need some definition to be able to rule fairly and consistently.  

I'm pretty gratified to see the reactions here, to see people actually trying to work through the wording of a rule.  In other forums, the divot-relief proponents want a change, but aren't willing to actually try to suggest something workable.

Player altered lie caused during a player's swing? That might help the footprint problem. Maybe it can say, "once grass has begun to grow to the point that the ball is resting on top of upright grass, the lie is deemed in play? Feel free to offer criticisms.

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3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Another step forward, towards clarity in a definition.  I do wonder if a player's footprint in a soft area could fall under the definition of "player-altered lie in the fairway."  Another following question becomes, when is the "altered" area grown in enough so that relief is no longer justified.  One problem is that many of us will never see an official, beyond our local club pro.  Even so, proper officials need some definition to be able to rule fairly and consistently.  

I'm pretty gratified to see the reactions here, to see people actually trying to work through the wording of a rule.  In other forums, the divot-relief proponents want a change, but aren't willing to actually try to suggest something workable.

It's a fun exercise if nothing else. I don't think we'll ever get something air tight but it's fun to try. Current rules aren't without abuse even at the majors level. Where a ball passes over, through, out of hazards for example.

To the footprint point - the ground would still be covered in grass or turf. If they're digging divots with their cleats they may have bigger problems. "Player altered fairway is a surface that is bare or primarily covered by a material other than grass/turf as the result of previous play." from my post. The tough part is when has grass "grown in enough" - and that can be a tough one to nail down. Using the length of cut referenced in other rules, could we say once it rests on grass long enough to be cut it's in play? It may be thin, and you may have people disagreeing on exactly where the line is.

 

3 hours ago, GB13 said:

Player altered lie caused during a player's swing? That might help the footprint problem. Maybe it can say, "once grass has begun to grow to the point that the ball is resting on top of upright grass, the lie is deemed in play? Feel free to offer criticisms.

I don't know that we need to limit it to the swing, mainly because there is no way to track that for each mark on the fairway. If your ball ends up in what looks like a divot, you don't know if it was part of their swing or not. 

I don't mind the ball resting on top of grass, but do think it errs on the side of being more generous than I would be with my friends in a skins game. Not that I can define that in writing exactly where my personal line is, it's a "know it when I see it" sort of call and is exactly why the rule is difficult to phrase.

 

 

Ultimately the call would have to be made on where the line is drawn. Being over generous might be the way to go if the new lie granted offers no real advantage aside from surface condition. I'm sure eventually someone will get a better slope or marginally better footing - but how often will that happen and is it enough to prevent the rule completely? In your own recollection, how often have you wished "if only I was 4" right" while standing in the fairway?

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19 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In other forums, the divot-relief proponents want a change, but aren't willing to actually try to suggest something workable.

I think that's mostly because the detractors pick the proposals apart.  A reasonable and logical improvement idea being lost in the quest for perfection seems silly IMHO.  Many of the existing rules have levels of ambiguity for which it is difficult, if not impossible, to completely eliminate.  I have no real skin in this discussion because we handle it as we deem appropriate. Just my .02 cents.

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Does landing in a divot suck? Yes

Would it be hard to define a divot that suited every grass type with little to no confusion? Not sure and this is where some of the detractors can pick apart because the rules and/or decisions could get more confusing.

Golf is played outside and is meant to be played as the course is. The rub of the green is just the way it is, sometimes you get a break like a ball heading into the trees gets a good kick into the fairway, a ball hits your ball on the green and you get close to the hole. Then you get bad breaks with ball in a divot, buried in a bunker lip, up against the tree with no shop.

 

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More senior/Yuma rules employed.  This past Tuesday, we adopted the 2019 rules on two OB drives in our group... sort of a pre-launch beta test 😉.  I also grounded my club in a sand trap- just to see what it feels like.  No advantage here.  I still crapped up the shot, leaving it woefully short 🤣.

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:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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More senior/Yuma rules employed.  This past Tuesday, we adopted the 2019 rules on two OB drives in our group... sort of a pre-launch beta test .  I also grounded my club in a sand trap- just to see what it feels like.  No advantage here.  I still crapped up the shot, leaving it woefully short 🤣.

Too funny!


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, a ball hits your ball on the green and you get close to the hole.
 


I'm pretty sure the rule in this case is to replace your ball to where it was before it got knocked, otherwise it's a one stroke penalty. Please correct me if I'm wrong though!

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3W -  :callaway-small: XHot Pro

3 Hybrid - :taylormade-small: Rescue 11

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52 -  :vokey-small: SM4

56 -  :cleveland-small: RTX-3

60 - Scratch SS

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Just now, SeeMore Putts said:


 

 


I'm pretty sure the rule in this case is to replace your ball to where it was before it got knocked, otherwise it's a one stroke penalty. Please correct me if I'm wrong though!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

 

You are correct.

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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12 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

 I also grounded my club in a sand trap- just to see what it feels like.  

Hopefully you didn't ground the club in front of or behind the ball,  that is still a penalty in 2019

 

13. BUNKERS: FEWER PROHIBITIONS.
There will be fewer prohibitions in the proposed new 2019 Rules of Golf.

There will no longer be penalty for…:

  1. … removing loose impediments in the bunker.
  2. … lean on a club (the club touching the sand).
  3. … strike the sand with a club in frustration.

Three prohibitions are upheld, though. You are not allowed to touch the sand with your club…:

  1. … by grounding directly in front or directly behind the ball.
  2. … in a practice swing.
  3. … in the backswing to the stroke.

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Anyone heard about any potential changes to the new 'drop on fairway after OB' rule?

NCG has tweeted they will have news on this rule as they didnt include it in their summary of major changes. 

Driver     Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs)  
4 Wood   Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+  :callaway-small: Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex

Hybrid     Titleist 910H 19*    :titelist-small:   Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S'

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Wedges    Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54*  :callaway-small:   KBS Tour in 'R'

Putter        'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5"

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3 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

Anyone heard about any potential changes to the new 'drop on fairway after OB' rule?

NCG has tweeted they will have news on this rule as they didnt include it in their summary of major changes. 

I think I had heard that CONGU will not accept scores made if the approved local rule that allows you an option to the stroke and distance penalty for OB and lost balls is in effect.  

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Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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