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New 2019 Rules of Golf

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if you read my post again I never said you ever had to count each strike. Said I though they might go to that.

 

My apologies, I mistook your intentions.  I think the new rule, no penalty for a double hit, reflects my experience.  I've had a couple of double-hits myself, and seen a number more, and the second (unintentional) strike never seemed to do anything positive.  As I understand it, an intentional double-hit would still be penalized.

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My apologies, I mistook your intentions. I think the new rule, no penalty for a double hit, reflects my experience. I've had a couple of double-hits myself, and seen a number more, and the second (unintentional) strike never seemed to do anything positive. As I understand it, an intentional double-hit would still be penalized.

Agreed, you have already penalized yourself by hitting it again. Generally you didn't hit it well the first time and then hit it way to far and left the second time. You hit a bad shot and that is your penalty.

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 As I understand it, an intentional double-hit would still be penalized.

 

Yes.  Rule 11.2.   In particular, 11.2b:

 

 

• A player gets the general penalty if he or she deliberately deflects or stops any ball in motion.

• This is true whether it is the player's own ball or a ball played by an opponent or by another player in stroke play.

 

If you deliberately hit your ball twice, the second time is a deliberate deflection for which this rule applies.

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So, new Rule 1.3b(2) that incorporates Decision 34-3/10 introduced in April 2017 will now be called the "Lexi Rule"?

 

So long as the player did all that could be reasonably expected under the circumstances:

  • The player gets no penalty for small inaccuracies, even if an advantage is gained.

Accepting a player's reasonable judgment limits the detailed analysis that can arise from the use of enhanced technology (such as video review when golf is televised).

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My apologies, I mistook your intentions. I think the new rule, no penalty for a double hit, reflects my experience. I've had a couple of double-hits myself, and seen a number more, and the second (unintentional) strike never seemed to do anything positive. As I understand it, an intentional double-hit would still be penalized.

Agree. The result of the second hit rarely yields a positive result which seems penalty enough but you never know with USGA.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think that there are PGA rules, are there?

Correct. USGA Rules not PGA Rules.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

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So, new Rule 1.3b(2) that incorporates Decision 34-3/10 introduced in April 2017 will now be called the "Lexi Rule"?

 

So long as the player did all that could be reasonably expected under the circumstances:

  • The player gets no penalty for small inaccuracies, even if an advantage is gained.

Accepting a player's reasonable judgment limits the detailed analysis that can arise from the use of enhanced technology (such as video review when golf is televised).

No.  Lexi moved the ball a noticeable amount, and did not use reasonable care in replacing it in its original location..  Its reasonable to expect her to put the ball back pretty damn close to its original position, not 3/4 inch away, especially when she didn't lift it more than two inches off the ground.  

The thing that could reasonably be called the "Lexi rule" was the elimination of the two-stroke penalty for turning in a wrong scorecard, since she was unaware that she had breached the rule at the time.  And although not a rule, the decision by the pro tours to eliminate viewer call-ins in favor of full-time video monitoring by tour officials.

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I for one really like the new OB rule - particularly for causal amateur play.  No reason not to play it like a red stake hazard IMO. Speeds up play. I don't see the need to change the grounding club in the sand or double hit penalty, but have no issue if they do change.  I would still like to see a rule allowing free drop from a fairway divot - have always found that to be a goofy rule.

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I for one really like the new OB rule - particularly for causal amateur play.  No reason not to play it like a red stake hazard IMO. Speeds up play. I don't see the need to change the grounding club in the sand or double hit penalty, but have no issue if they do change.  I would still like to see a rule allowing free drop from a fairway divot - have always found that to be a goofy rule.

I agree. I think that the current OB rule is overly penal to casual golfers. As for the fairway divot, there is no reason to be punished for hitting the fairway. 

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I for one really like the new OB rule - particularly for causal amateur play.  No reason not to play it like a red stake hazard IMO. Speeds up play. I don't see the need to change the grounding club in the sand or double hit penalty, but have no issue if they do change.  I would still like to see a rule allowing free drop from a fairway divot - have always found that to be a goofy rule.

The new optional local rule for OB is no less penal than the current rule.  2 penalty strokes, coupled with dropping back where the ball is thought to be OB is worse than hitting a good provisional.  This is not like a lateral hazard, it's 2 strokes penalty instead of 1.

As for divots, they're a natural imperfection in the fairway.  Unless you want to play preferred lies every day of the year, there's no effective way to write a rule allowing relief from divot holes.  If you want to try, I'd be interested to read your take.  Please define a divot hole, and define when it no longer is a divot hole.  And really, how often do you actually end up in one, a couple of times a season ?

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Yesterday I would have left the pin in on two greens if the option were available. Our greens have firmed up and are rolling really fast. I like it actually. However, I had two rather long'ish downhill putts yesterday and definitely would have preferred to leave the pin in if I could have. I missed both putts. One rolled by about 8' and the other I left with 6". Whew! Of course my thinking was make the putts but with the speed of the greens a pin left in might stop it and it falls in; or perhaps deflects if leaving the ball close. Maybe. Who knows.

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On 11/23/2018 at 6:08 PM, DaveP043 said:

The new optional local rule for OB is no less penal than the current rule.  2 penalty strokes, coupled with dropping back where the ball is thought to be OB is worse than hitting a good provisional.  This is not like a lateral hazard, it's 2 strokes penalty instead of 1.

As for divots, they're a natural imperfection in the fairway.  Unless you want to play preferred lies every day of the year, there's no effective way to write a rule allowing relief from divot holes.  If you want to try, I'd be interested to read your take.  Please define a divot hole, and define when it no longer is a divot hole.  And really, how often do you actually end up in one, a couple of times a season ?

Well, IMO they should just make OB the same as a red stake hazard.  I also think it's not that tough to discern when your playing out of someone else's divot. In any case, our groups just move them to a non-scarred surface.  Just because the USGA can't get it right doesn't mean we can't. 👍

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10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, IMO they should just make OB the same as a red stake hazard.  I also think it's not that tough to discern when your playing out of someone else's divot. In any case, our groups just move them to a non-scarred surface.  Just because the USGA can't get it right doesn't mean we can't. 👍

In my opinion, its important to keep your golf ball somewhere on the property that we've been provided with to play golf.  After all, its usually 100 acres or more.  Failure to do so deserves a pretty serious penalty.  I had no problem with stroke and distance in that situation.  

If its easy to recognize when you're in a divot, it should be just as easy to write a clear concise rule.  And once again, I'd challenge anyone to write a proposed rule that effectively provides free relief from divots without allowing free relief everywhere in the fairway.  There's no guarantee in golf that you'll have a good lie in your fairway.  The lie might be uneven, you might be on the side of a hump, you might be in thin grass, you might be behind a tree, or you might be in a divot hole.   Divots have been around for much longer than Rules of Golf have.  

Play the ball as it lies, and play the course as you find it.  

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10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Play the ball as it lies, and play the course as you find it. 

I feel the same way. However... during the dead of winter - which is pretty mild here in Texas many times guys want to play "winter rules" meaning you may improve your lie in the fairway. This being dormant bermuda. Personally I'd rather not as the fairways aren't bad; they just get a little tighter is all. In the summer our fairways are very good. But, guys still don't want to play from a fairway divot whether sanded or not. Since there is always a bet on the line I simply shrug my shoulders and say "Sorry. We're playing the ball down". Rub O' the green pal.

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In my opinion, its important to keep your golf ball somewhere on the property that we've been provided with to play golf.  After all, its usually 100 acres or more.  Failure to do so deserves a pretty serious penalty.  I had no problem with stroke and distance in that situation.  
If its easy to recognize when you're in a divot, it should be just as easy to write a clear concise rule.  And once again, I'd challenge anyone to write a proposed rule that effectively provides free relief from divots without allowing free relief everywhere in the fairway.  There's no guarantee in golf that you'll have a good lie in your fairway.  The lie might be uneven, you might be on the side of a hump, you might be in thin grass, you might be behind a tree, or you might be in a divot hole.   Divots have been around for much longer than Rules of Golf have.  
Play the ball as it lies, and play the course as you find it.  
I agree with DaveP043, play the ball as it lies. But for the sake of argument here would be my proposed new ruling, assuming we can introduce the word "fairway" to the rulebook without too much controversy:

If a player finds their ball in the fairway and the ball is not touching any upright blades of grass, the player may move the ball up to two clubhead lengths no closer to the green without penalty.

Feel free to completely tear it apart! I think it's an alright starting point but I encourage brutal feedback.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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1 hour ago, SeeMore Putts said:


If a player finds their ball in the fairway and the ball is not touching any upright blades of grass, the player may move the ball up to two clubhead lengths no closer to the green without penalty.
 

That's not a bad start, but I still see issues.  First, if a ball is near the edge of a divot, it may touching some grass, but still present a similar problem.  The same issue would arise as grass begins to regrow, especially for divots that are fulled with a sand/seed mixture, you'd have very young grass, but still a pretty bare lie on the sand..   You could also have some bare spots, which reasonably could be called GUR, but are not marked.  Obviously you'd need to define what you mean by "move", whether that's dropping or placing, whether you can clean the ball, etc, but that's not a real problem.

 

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Golf is played in natural environment that gets best up from play, nature, etc. there’s no expectation that perfect lies exist other than on a tee box. You can have uphill, downhill, sidehill lies. Leaves, landscaping or other objects affecting your swing.  Does it suck to be in a divot? Yep. Should one be allowed to move a ball in one? Not imo, it’s golf and play the bell where it lies.

Good breaks happen just as do bad ones. No ones clamoring to make someone who gets a good bounce off tree needs to go place the ball in trouble 

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9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Golf is played in natural environment that gets best up from play, nature, etc. there’s no expectation that perfect lies exist other than on a tee box. You can have uphill, downhill, sidehill lies. Leaves, landscaping or other objects affecting your swing.  Does it suck to be in a divot? Yep. Should one be allowed to move a ball in one? Not imo, it’s golf and play the bell where it lies.

Good breaks happen just as do bad ones. No ones clamoring to make someone who gets a good bounce off tree needs to go place the ball in trouble 

You mean people actually get good bounces off trees??  I'm still waiting for one.

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