The Short Par Five

[NiftyNiblick]

I got to be a little bit better than a bogie player.

 

I had to go through being a bogey player to get there, however,

and I was clearly well on my way back to that status

before my physical health took me out of the game.

 

(My mental health should have taken me out of the game a lot sooner,

but I didn't let it.)

 

Anyway, for the bogie player, the short par five is the best chance to make par.

 

It doesn't take three good shots to get on the putting green.

 

One can flub any of them except the third.

 

With a good enough third, one can flub the first two.

 

And with the good fortune of two surprisingly good shots,

the third might not even be needed.

 

I loved short par fives--460 to 485 yards.

 

When I was young, I  had a very reasonable shot at reaching them in two if they

weren't uphill and there was no hurting wind. 

 

and when I did,

 

then I had the opportunity to screw myself with a three putt par.

 

Since I was never good enough to complain about par, even those were good.

 

When I say that I had a decent shot at reaching them in two,

remember that the distance is to the middle of the green,

and par five greens tend to be big.

 

To hit a 475 yard par five in two,

one only has to advance the ball maybe 445 yards in two shots.

I could do that with two good shots..

 

And that's why I feel that short par fives should be a feature of every golf course.

 

It doesn't make sense to dedicate more than 100 acres to a golf course that

the average recreational player cannot enjoy.

 

And frankly, multiple tees don't really address the issue.

 

The architect designed the hole with the set of tees that matched his vision for it.

 

Then the other tees are squeezed in as required, but they don't give you the same hole. 

 

 

 

[THEZIPR23]

then I had the opportunity to screw myself with a three putt par.

 

One of the most demoralizing scores is golf is 3 putts for par on any hole. 

[Mr. 82]

I wish there were more par 5s on every golf course.  This type of hole is much more interesting to me than all of the additional par 4s we have on a course.  Why not six 3s, six 4s and six 5s on every golf course?  Then you can design a lot of different distance and variety into these holes, versus having us play 4 or 5 of the same length par 4s every time.

 

I'm also convinced that if you can hit a 7 iron great every time, then why not play these par 5s with a 7 iron off of the tee, 7 iron for the 2nd, and 7 iron for the 3rd.  Certainly hitting one club more often will make you better at it.

 

But alas, the mindset of golfers is revealed on par 5s.  Everyone wants to grip it and rip and hit it as far as possible, because we all want the chance to get there in two, and maybe, just maybe have a shot at eagle.  But more often than not we screw up one of the two or three shots on one of these holes, and wind up walking off the par 5 with bogey or worse.  

 

And consider that the shorter hitters, like my senior friends, have a much tougher go at these par 5s then someone like me who hits it a bit longer.  When their drives max out at 180 yards, suddenly a 500 yard hole become a challenge just to reach it in 3, and often times 4 shots.

 

That's why I think it would be a great idea to add more variety of distance and mix into an 18 hole golf course.  Stagger your par 3s from 100/115/125/145/160/180.  Stagger your par 4s from 290/325/340/350/375/400.  Stagger your par 5s from 450/475/500/525/550/575

 

Obviously you can make these distances different from the ladies or senior tees, and you can lengthen them dramatically for the young stud who thinks he hits it 300 yards, but really only hits is 230.  Make the game fun for every skill level and distance.  This should be the architects primary goal and vision when routing a golf course.

[NiftyNiblick]

One of the most demoralizing scores is golf is 3 putts for par on any hole. 

I was almost never demoralized by par in any circumstances,

one, because i wasn't good enough to complain about par,

and two, because three putts were an all too real part of my life.

 

Once, on the par five  #9  at Far Corner, I put my second shot four feet from the hole,

missed the eagle putt,

missed the birdie putt coming back,

and tapped in for par.

 

I was in my very early thirties playing with a recently graduated Div.II All-America college football kicker

named Dave Teggart.  He could out drive me by thirty yards but didn't hit that particular green.

 

(Dave Jr. was later a good kicker at the FBS level.)

 

THAT, I admit, was a bit demoralizing.

The very fact that I remember it forty years later confirms that.

[THEZIPR23]

I wish there were more par 5s on every golf course.  This type of hole is much more interesting to me than all of the additional par 4s we have on a course.  Why not six 3s, six 4s and six 5s on every golf course?  Then you can design a lot of different distance and variety into these holes, versus having us play 4 or 5 of the same length par 4s every time.

 

I'm also convinced that if you can hit a 7 iron great every time, then why not play these par 5s with a 7 iron off of the tee, 7 iron for the 2nd, and 7 iron for the 3rd.  Certainly hitting one club more often will make you better at it.

 

But alas, the mindset of golfers is revealed on par 5s.  Everyone wants to grip it and rip and hit it as far as possible, because we all want the chance to get there in two, and maybe, just maybe have a shot at eagle.  But more often than not we screw up one of the two or three shots on one of these holes, and wind up walking off the par 5 with bogey or worse.  

 

And consider that the shorter hitters, like my senior friends, have a much tougher go at these par 5s then someone like me who hits it a bit longer.  When their drives max out at 180 yards, suddenly a 500 yard hole become a challenge just to reach it in 3, and often times 4 shots.

 

That's why I think it would be a great idea to add more variety of distance and mix into an 18 hole golf course.  Stagger your par 3s from 100/115/125/145/160/180.  Stagger your par 4s from 290/325/340/350/375/400.  Stagger your par 5s from 450/475/500/525/550/575

 

Obviously you can make these distances different from the ladies or senior tees, and you can lengthen them dramatically for the young stud who thinks he hits it 300 yards, but really only hits is 230.  Make the game fun for every skill level and distance.  This should be the architects primary goal and vision when routing a golf course.

I think there is a lot of merit in designing golf course different from the traditional. The biggest thing for me is the ability to hit all the clubs in a round. That, to me, is the basis for a good golf course. The current club I belong to is a good course, but very boring in this regard. 9 of the holes are driver wedge for me, 2 par 3's are 5 irons, and the 2 par 5's are generally driver 4 iron. I try to change it up by playing different tees or hitting different clubs off the tee, but the majority of the time it is pretty repetitive. 

[Kenny B]

My muni course has 5 par 5's; 3 on the front and 2 on the back.  They are not overly long, but I can't get to them in 2 shots.  Here is a list of the yardages from each tee (I play the Blues, and sometimes sing the Blues):

 

                  #5           #6         #9         #13         #18

Black         589         497       596       517         515

Blue           549         487       546       489         499

White         498         475       494       427         469

Red            466         416       437       384         407

 

The distances don't tell the whole story about the difficulty of a hole; neither do the hazards.  All of these holes look straight forward, but each is difficult in it's own way.

 

#5  -   No hazards; no OB unless you hit it 80 yards left of fairway.

           No bunkers on hole

           Uphill, downhill, sidehill lies right and left of fairway through the green

           Green 40 yards long; 15 yards wide; steep drop-off both sides

           Usually plays into wind

 

#6  -   Tight driving hole; long fairway bunkers left and right

           Same lies in rough as #5

           Deep greenside bunker left

           Green 30 yards long; 10 yards wide

           Usually plays downwind

 

#9  -   Elevated tee; dogleg left

           No fairway bunkers; same lies in rough as #5 and #6

           Narrow opening to green with pond in front right

           Usually plays downwind

 

#13  -  No fairway bunkers; same lies as other holes

            Big greenside bunker left-center starting at 50 yards from green

            Pot bunker behind

           Usually plays into wind

 

#18  -  Dogleg left; Big tree at the dogleg at 150

           Fairway bunker left before dogleg; same lies in rough as other holes

           Bunker straight away off tee past dogleg

           that starts at 180 from green; runs all the way to green including in front

           Water on other side of bunker

           Mounds, pot bunker and grass bunkers behind green

           Plays into wind off tee; downwind into green.

[GB13]

Yeah, I feel like a good reachable par 5 is something my course is missing. I can get on #1 once in a blue moon but it takes two perfect shots. I like reachable par 5s, they provide a nice challenge, while providing a sense of accomplishment.

The par 5s aren't very long length wise but the are designed in such a way that they play longer than they are.

 

#1 505 yards 90° dogleg right at 240 with no chance at cutting the corner. That leaves about 260 (a little downhill, plays 240). This needs 2 perfect 3Ws to hit the green.

 

#7 530 yards. Pond from 100 yards to the green, up to the front edge. No chance I would take a 3W over the pond. If somehow I carried it, it wouldn't stop until #8 tee.

 

#13 515 yards. Double dogleg goes left and then a 90° turn to the right. No real chance unless you can cut both corners which I can't.

 

#15 540 yards. Long sweeping dogleg left, probably ends up at 120° dogleg. This requires 3W layup to the next corner and then a wedge. I have never seen anyone hit this green in two.

[TheWahoo]

I find that most times, there are multiple short par 5's on many if not most courses.   My problem is that they are reflected as long par 4's on the score card.

[Kenny B]

The Whites are considered the Senior tees on my course, but it really makes no difference to me playing from there.  It just means a shorter layup shot on the par 5's.  Playing from the Whites does make a difference on #18, but that's not to get me on in two.  The difference in yardage gives me a look around the dogleg.  Right now off the Blues, I have to go over, under, or around that BIG tree for my 2nd shot.  If I don't make it, then I have a 150y 3rd shot from a difficult lie over sand, or I'm in the bunker with a 140y bunker shot thats all carry over that same bunker.  I usually just chip out to the fairway.

[PING Apologist #9]

At probably our most challenging course in the valley (Quail Hollow), there are only two par-5's; The #7 at 469-yds and the #16 which plays at 477-yds, both measured from the whites.

 

#16..? Fagetaboutit! No chance to even go at it, so begging for par there at best.

 

Now on #7 though, it's totally reachable, even for the likes of me, and I've been on in two shots 2 of the 5 times I've played there. It's downhill all the way from the tee box with a slight bend to the left. The tee shot is somewhat "blind" in that the terrain dips down immediately into a huge bowl before rising up again to the preferred landing zone around 220-250 away. You often have to check and see if anyone is down there before you hit.

 

Anyhow, a good drive will set you up for a shot to a long green that mostly runs perpendicular to the fairway, but has a great backstop on the back to catch some fliers. I usually hit an easy 5w in and it's worked twice like I said. Both times though I had to settle for par...dammit!

 

I agree, more of these would be fun since hitting into par 5's in two is manley, ego-boosting and exciting.

[Angry Yeti]

I'd play part 5s all day, something about the long irons and fairway woods are particularly fun for me and I don't get to hit them often enough.

 

They check so many boxes for playing - hit the Driver, hit a long iron or fairway wood and celebrate reaching the green in 2 or get to use a short iron/wedge, and then you get to finish it off with a solid 3 putt on a generally larger green.