Toe hits with my irons

[Kanoito]

So, I'm kind of lost with this issue right now, perhaps some of you might be able to offer an useful tip.

 

Obviously, I won't hold you liable for the damage you can cause

 

Here's the deal:

 

I'm currently testing a new set of irons. They were ordered to my specs, but keep hitting them on the toe and ball goes right.

 

I already took them to the pro shop and both lie and length match my gamers. Only difference is the shaft: I got the PX 5.5 in my gamers and the LZ 5.5 in the new sticks.

 

I already tried flattening my swing and standing closer to the ball at address, but the issue persists.

 

As soon as I switch back to my gamers, flush.

 

Any idea what could be causing it?

[hckymeyer]

How does the swing weight match up?

[Kanoito]

How does the swing weight match up?

Damn it, forgot to ask them to measure this. Anyway I can do this at home?

[GB13]

Is your setup too upright? That can make you deliver the toe before the heel.

[MaxEntropy]

I was having this problem and so was MattF. We both came to the same solution through different paths - we were too much on our toes during address and our swing. It seems counter intuitive to me, but I feel like I'm back on my heels at address now, but probably better balanced and no more toe shots.

 

Ymmv, but something else to consider.

 

Sent from my BLN-L24 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Kanoito]

I'll try again tomorrow with a lower setup and weight on my heels. Haven't tried these 2 yet.

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

[hckymeyer]

You can get a rough estimate on swing weight without a scale, just google for the calculations. But always best to check on an actual swing weight scale.

 

Quick and dirty check for comparison is grab both 7i's and balance them on a finger and see if the balance point is roughly the same spot

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Kanoito]

You can get a rough estimate on swing weight without a scale, just google for the calculations. But always best to check on an actual swing weight scale.

 

Quick and dirty check for comparison is grab both 7i's and balance them on a finger and see if the balance point is roughly the same spot

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Will do that in the morning as well. Thanks!

[ridgewalker]

Certainly there could be some issues with how the club feels that is leading you to do that.

 

The easiest fix may be to just try to hit the ball off the heel, or align the ball off the heel. This won't be permanent. Your brain will adjust. Controlling strike location is a major skill. Adam Young's teaching is centered around these sorts of ideas. Better to be able to change strike location at will, than only be able to hit it in the center if everything is perfect.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[cnosil]

Based on the fact that the swing works for one set but not for the other I would lean toward a difference in the clubs and not with your swing.  As already mentioned It could be swingweight but I would lean toward the headweight of the new clubs  or the shafts themselves cause more shaft deflection resulting in a toe hit.  

[Gisle]

Hi,
There are two properties of the golf clubs that affects how it behaves when swung.  That is Mass and Moment of Inertia around the center of the grip (MOIG).  If your new set and old set have different properties, they will behave differently and cause off-center hits.  Matching by Swingweight will not get you anywhere.  You may check out BioMatch at www.rational-golf.com or send me an email at gisle@rational-golf.com and we will sort it out.
Thanks,
Gisle

 

[Kanoito]

You can get a rough estimate on swing weight without a scale, just google for the calculations. But always best to check on an actual swing weight scale.

 

Quick and dirty check for comparison is grab both 7i's and balance them on a finger and see if the balance point is roughly the same spot

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Did the balance check today and both 7i balance practically on the same spot, so the SW should be very similar.

 

I tried lowering my stance and it was a slight improvement, still slight toe hits, but at least all on the grooves. Managed to shoot an 82 today, so not too shabby.

Shifting my weight towards the heels was kind of awkward, I felt I was out of balance, so I'll have to practice that a little more.

[Kanoito]

Certainly there could be some issues with how the club feels that is leading you to do that.

 

The easiest fix may be to just try to hit the ball off the heel, or align the ball off the heel. This won't be permanent. Your brain will adjust. Controlling strike location is a major skill. Adam Young's teaching is centered around these sorts of ideas. Better to be able to change strike location at will, than only be able to hit it in the center if everything is perfect.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Sorry, missed this one before going to the course today. I'll give this one a try on Thursday. Thanks!

[Kanoito]

Based on the fact that the swing works for one set but not for the other I would lean toward a difference in the clubs and not with your swing.  As already mentioned It could be swingweight but I would lean toward the headweight of the new clubs  or the shafts themselves cause more shaft deflection resulting in a toe hit.  

 

I'm on the fence about this one. I've done a little research and some people say the LZ is softer than the normal PX while others claim the opposite.

Both 5.5 are 115g weight, LZ is mid launch and PX is low launch.

 

For me, one doesn't feel whippier than the other one.

[cnosil]

I'm on the fence about this one. I've done a little research and some people say the LZ is softer than the normal PX while others claim the opposite.

Both 5.5 are 115g weight, LZ is mid launch and PX is low launch.

 

For me, one doesn't feel whippier than the other one.

It isn't about feeling whippy when you waggle the club. It is about the shaft profile and how it reacts to the swing.

 

What are the clubs that you are using?

[RickyBobby_PR]

I'm on the fence about this one. I've done a little research and some people say the LZ is softer than the normal PX while others claim the opposite.

Both 5.5 are 115g weight, LZ is mid launch and PX is low launch.

 

For me, one doesn't feel whippier than the other one.

Waggling a club actually doesn't indicate whippy or not. It's something that most of not all manufacturers would like to see go away.

 

The px and lz are different beasts. The px shaft requires a better load by the golfer even at 5.5 where the lz has a softer mid section and variable wall technology in the butt and tip section to make the middle of the shaft play softer and easier to load.

 

I have the px in a couple sets and was fit for it in a previous set abd the fitter had me try the lz and after two swings that were snap hooks we put the lz back in the fitting cart.

 

I would recommend taking video of your swing with both clubs and see what's happening differently with the lz

[perseveringgolfer]

I found the LZ to be stiffer in the loading area over the PX giving less feel.....for me anyway.

[Kanoito]

It isn't about feeling whippy when you waggle the club. It is about the shaft profile and how it reacts to the swing.

 

What are the clubs that you are using?

 

Currently Apex CF16 with PX 5.5

[Kanoito]

Waggling a club actually doesn't indicate whippy or not. It's something that most of not all manufacturers would like to see go away.

 

The px and lz are different beasts. The px shaft requires a better load by the golfer even at 5.5 where the lz has a softer mid section and variable wall technology in the butt and tip section to make the middle of the shaft play softer and easier to load.

 

I have the px in a couple sets and was fit for it in a previous set abd the fitter had me try the lz and after two swings that were snap hooks we put the lz back in the fitting cart.

 

I would recommend taking video of your swing with both clubs and see what's happening differently with the lz

 

Understood. So assuming the shaft does load easier than the PX 5.5, would it be cause of toe hits?

I don't have any issues with snap hooks at all.

I'll try to get a decent camera to see if I can catch the shaft deflection on video.

[cnosil]

Currently Apex CF16 with PX 5.5

Both the same irons with just different shaft? If so, then the shaft isn't the right shaft for you with that head.

[Kanoito]

Both the same irons with just different shaft? If so, then the shaft isn't the right shaft for you with that head.

 

Ah no, sorry... CF16 with PX 5.5 and i500 with LZ 5.5

[RickyBobby_PR]

Understood. So assuming the shaft does load easier than the PX 5.5, would it be cause of toe hits?

I don't have any issues with snap hooks at all.

I'll try to get a decent camera to see if I can catch the shaft deflection on video.

Some questions regarding your swing/game?

 

Swing speed with driver and/or 6/7i?

 

What is your swing tempo and transition? Quick, smooth somewhere in the middle?

 

If you have a smartphone you can use the camera on it and use an app like v1 gold or hudl and use the slow motion feature that can help you see what's different if anything.

 

Not saying the head/shaft combo isn't the issue which is the reason for the above questions but usually toe strikes come from a loss of spine angle and/or a steep downswing. The body has to create space and the hands/club moves inside and the sweet spot gets further away from the ball. As mentioned in othe posts a difference in swing weight/feel could make a swing flaw more prevelant

[Kanoito]

Some questions regarding your swing/game?

 

Swing speed with driver and/or 6/7i?

 

What is your swing tempo and transition? Quick, smooth somewhere in the middle?

 

If you have a smartphone you can use the camera on it and use an app like v1 gold or hudl and use the slow motion feature that can help you see what's different if anything.

 

Not saying the head/shaft combo isn't the issue which is the reason for the above questions but usually toe strikes come from a loss of spine angle and/or a steep downswing. The body has to create space and the hands/club moves inside and the sweet spot gets further away from the ball. As mentioned in othe posts a difference in swing weight/feel could make a swing flaw more prevelant

 

SS with driver around 95/100mph

I will load the apps and go to the range this weekend and work on it and report back!

[Kanoito]

Hey guys! So finally got time to film my swing...
Here is swinging the CF16 with PX 5.5

https://streamable.com/3gt1p

And here i500 with PX LZ 5.5

https://streamable.com/fy98b

Can you tell any difference?  

Sorry, didn't use YouTube since the quality would turn all blurry.

[perseveringgolfer]

12 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

Hey guys! So finally got time to film my swing...
Here is swinging the CF16 with PX 5.5

https://streamable.com/3gt1p

And here i500 with PX LZ 5.5

https://streamable.com/fy98b

Can you tell any difference?  

Sorry, didn't use YouTube since the quality would turn all blurry.

swing looks pretty good to me.

Def balance issues though especially from strike to follow thru

[Kanoito]

1 minute ago, perseveringgolfer said:

swing looks pretty good to me.

Def balance issues though especially from strike to follow thru

Yeah, working on that, trying to tone it down to maintain position.

Do you think the balance issue affects the toe hit problem? Or will it remain an unsolved mystery?  

[GB13]

15 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

Hey guys! So finally got time to film my swing...
Here is swinging the CF16 with PX 5.5

https://streamable.com/3gt1p

And here i500 with PX LZ 5.5

https://streamable.com/fy98b

Can you tell any difference?  

Sorry, didn't use YouTube since the quality would turn all blurry.

Not sure why but you are snapping your hips sooner with the I500's. You are getting on your left side too soon and falling back on your heel causing a toe strike. 

The swing with the Apex is much smoother with no definitive snap and stop and then restart of the hips. 

I am not sure why the club would make a difference. 

[Kanoito]

2 minutes ago, GB13 said:

Not sure why but you are snapping your hips sooner with the I500's. You are getting on your left side too soon and falling back on your heel causing a toe strike. 

The swing with the Apex is much smoother with no definitive snap and stop and then restart of the hips. 

I am not sure why the club would make a difference. 

You mean with the i500 clearing the hips too soon?

[GB13]

1 minute ago, Kanoito said:

You mean with the i500 clearing the hips too soon?

Yes

That is the concise version of what I said. 

[Kanoito]

3 minutes ago, GB13 said:

Yes

That is the concise version of what I said. 

lol sorry, just not used to that terminology

But thanks! Appreciate the input, I'm gonna take the afternoon off on Thursday and see if I can sort it out.

My goal for next season will be to stop flipping my wrists, which was very obvious in the video. Let's see if winter allows some range time.