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Distance Issue

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The scores are staying fairly similar so I don't think there is a distance problem. Distance has pretty much plateaued after the implementation of the PV1. If they want to fix what they think is a problem, have softer, narrower, fairways, longer, thicker rough, and hard greens.

The rough at East Lake screwed with a lot of people last week and made them hit more conservative clubs off the tee to find the fairway. That seems to be the logical answer.

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Maybe I am wrong but someone has to pay for all the equipment costs, R & D, Labor, manufacturing etc. Who is going to pay for Taylormade to make Tiger a new club that conforms to these rules? Or Bridgestone to make a new ball? We know it's not going to be him. It is going to be us and majority of golfers will not benefit. It will be worked into the cost of retail clubs IMO.

I see your point but we only have to pay if we buy equipment from them. I'm not - when I first started playing golf all the equipment was basically the same so you kept your clubs forever.

 

I could live with my current set as my forever set with no problem - just reshaft it when I get older. :)

 

Of course OEMs are likely to go bonkers with their non conforming equipment if this roll back happens and they have half a brain.

 

 

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I'd support efforts to continue to slow the advances in golf equipment including balls, but I'm not in favor of bifurcation. The biggest jumps in distance happened decades ago (earlier thread) and not as much in the last 10+ years so I don't understand why it's a big issue now? So equipment/ball makers have to have dual lines? And how will they police recreational players, will leagues and groups split into elite amateur and recreational amateurs? Not sure how that could be good for the game...

 

And when do better players have to go to the throttled back clubs and balls? Pros only, college, high school varsity, accomplished juniors?

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I did both as well. All a rollback on amateurs would do is drive more from the game. Manufacturers might like it... Two sets of equipment (legal/illegal), two sets of balls, etc.

Didn't the USGA partner with TaylorMade on that HUGE cup a few years back? If so, their track record is remarkable.

How about spending time getting more people playing golf?! Ya THINK?!

 

Now get off my lawn.

 

 

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On the flip side could you imagine a clean up hitter walking up to bat and tossing the catcher a baseball of his choosing? Maybe it was developed to go higher and longer or maybe it produces just line drives and ground balls.

 

 

I don't know about today, but when I was in college and went to the football games, that absolutely DID happen in inter-conference games.

 

One team would use a Wilson football on offense and the other would use a Spalding.

I don't know about now, but that was definitely done then because it was the type of odd thing that would catch my interest.

 

It would be less likely in baseball, I suppose, because the defense puts the ball into play..

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I personally believe that a rollback or bifurcation would be horrible for the game! For one, statistics show that for amateurs, distance has slightly decreased over the last few years. The only area that has shown an increase is on tour. Which leads to my next point...

If there were separate rules for professional equipment and amateur equipment, many of the tour events and players would begin losing sponsors. Titelist, Cobra, Ping, Taylormade, etc. could no longer say "play the same club that your favorite pro plays". That is a huge marketing strategy that they would lose if the rules were bifurcated. In addition, a rollback would eliminate the second biggest marketing strategy of pushing equipment improvements year after year. Because of this, I can see the equipment manufacturers putting their money where their mouth is and fighting any rollback or bifurcation tooth and nail.

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Sure they can roll the ball back 1.5% but bring back anchored putters, and square grooves, and divots in the FAIRWAY are ground under repair.

 

What a crock of shite.

 

Who needs rules anyways.

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I'd support efforts to continue to slow the advances in golf equipment including balls, but I'm not in favor of bifurcation. The biggest jumps in distance happened decades ago (earlier thread) and not as much in the last 10+ years so I don't understand why it's a big issue now? So equipment/ball makers have to have dual lines? And how will they police recreational players, will leagues and groups split into elite amateur and recreational amateurs? Not sure how that could be good for the game...

 

And when do better players have to go to the throttled back clubs and balls? Pros only, college, high school varsity, accomplished juniors?

Every other major sport does it without issue and golf used to. There were significantly different rules under the R and A than under the USGA in regards to the golf ball. It made it so that American pros had to play the European ball when there or be at a huge disadvantage.

 

At any rate it's easy enough to avoid bifurcation because “local” rules are built into the rules themselves as a category. It already exists it's just not called that.

 

If there really is a concern about distance deal with it at that level or this will get out of control quickly and then there will be true bifurcation and no governing body to help.

 

 

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I did both surveys.  Both were a little leaning to one side of the issue or the other, but the MGS survey questions were more in line with the everyday golfer's point of view... as it should be I guess.

 

I'm of the opinion that the ball should NOT be rolled back.  There is no issue.  Pros will get bigger, stronger, faster over time.  Roll the ball back now, roll it back again a few years from now.  Why change?  Control the pro game by tournament conditions.  If the tournament sponsors want low scores, give them firm, wide fairways and low rough.  If higher scores are the golf du jour, then soften and narrow the fairways, grow the rough, and firm up the greens.  It's not rocket science.

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Has anyone ever determined how much a rolled-back ball for the pros would affect amateurs with slower swing speeds?  

 

Just like advancements in golf technology, changes usually benefit players with higher swing speeds more than those with slow swing speeds.  The roll-back of the ball probably may not  affect the slower swingers as much.  However, any loss is not OK in my book.

 

If the slow speed swingers are affected significantly, imagine what it will cost to add shorter tee boxes forward of the forward tees. No one (myself included) likes to play from tees where getting to many par 4's in two shots isn't possible.  Unfortunately, that's already the case for many slow speed swingers.  If the ball is rolled back and more forward tees are not added, golf participation will decline.  

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I want to thank MGS for their better worded survey. Much cleaner than that biased USGA survey. I am not a long hitter off the tee, 220 yards. It seems from what I have read about, that a 15% to 20% rollback is being considered. For golfers like myself, it would decimate my game.

How in the hell is that going to be fun for anyone, or grow the game. The avearge golfer already knows that answer.

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I would also add, if the USGA feels that the ball is an issue, then why not develope a tournament ball , built to their specifications, for their tournaments.

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I know the popular thing is to bash the USGA, accuse them of using this poll to justify a decision they've already made, its the evil empire, a bunch of buffoons, etc, I'm not going to do that.  In my opinion, the USGA is perfectly justified in obtaining data around distance issue, at all levels of golf.  They've been vilified for being reactive in the past, now they're trying to be proactive and being vilified just the same.  So I definitely support their efforts to study the issue.Hopefully, the data they get from the non-elite players will make it clear that the only distance issue we have is too little, not too much.

As to whether they've made up their minds, I don't know, and nobody here knows either.  I DO know that the USGA paid attention to responses for the 2019 Rules of Golf.  Several proposed rules were changed between the time of the initial proposals and the final rules, in particular the rules concerning how to drop the ball, and it seems highly probable that the changes were due at least in part to the responses from the public.  Consequently, I hope that the USGA honestly evaluates the responses to the current questionnaire.  I think its a nearly unanimous opinion that for the vast majority of golfers, there's no need to reduce distance.  Its much more debatable as to whether it would be appropriate to decrease distance at the very top levels of golf, whether bifurcation of equipment rules could be justified, etc.  I just hope that a combination of data and survey responses will lead the USGA to do what I believe is the right thing for 99% of golfers.

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What is the reason the PGA isn't involved with USGA? I know there was debate years ago about the PGA having their own set of rules for their tournaments.

That was the PGA Tour--- The main reason was because of the US Open ( if that really counts) I think. I do remember back about 10 years ago certain clubs that were legal on the Asian Tour were not legal for PGA/ USGA events. All the manufacturers made clubs that were not conforming here but over there. I think they all came to terms for "the good of the game" I know at one time the PGA Tour was going to disregard the anchoring ban and so was the PGA of America but they caved in. That is why I have been saying for a while now that the PGA and the PGAOA needed to grow a set of nads and tell the USGA to pound sand.

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That is why I have been saying for a while now that the PGA and the PGAOA needed to grow a set of nads and tell the USGA to pound sand.

I couldn't agree more.

 

And the USGA should at that point take more interest in representing the recreational player better rather than being excessively concerned with elite players.

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I know the popular thing is to bash the USGA, accuse them of using this poll to justify a decision they've already made, its the evil empire, a bunch of buffoons, etc, I'm not going to do that.  In my opinion, the USGA is perfectly justified in obtaining data around distance issue, at all levels of golf.  They've been vilified for being reactive in the past, now they're trying to be proactive and being vilified just the same.  So I definitely support their efforts to study the issue.Hopefully, the data they get from the non-elite players will make it clear that the only distance issue we have is too little, not too much.

As to whether they've made up their minds, I don't know, and nobody here knows either.  I DO know that the USGA paid attention to responses for the 2019 Rules of Golf.  Several proposed rules were changed between the time of the initial proposals and the final rules, in particular the rules concerning how to drop the ball, and it seems highly probable that the changes were due at least in part to the responses from the public.  Consequently, I hope that the USGA honestly evaluates the responses to the current questionnaire.  I think its a nearly unanimous opinion that for the vast majority of golfers, there's no need to reduce distance.  Its much more debatable as to whether it would be appropriate to decrease distance at the very top levels of golf, whether bifurcation of equipment rules could be justified, etc.  I just hope that a combination of data and survey responses will lead the USGA to do what I believe is the right thing for 99% of golfers.

I can see what you are saying and can respect that so I gave you a like.

 

I think the reason they are doing things like they are is for several reasons

 

1- Their membership has been declining in the past few years and that effects their bottom line. You know the ones of us that USED to support them with our annual dues. They have also lost "member clubs". And support includes people buying USGA merchandise too. 

 

2- I am sure they have folks that read all the golf sites including this one and WRX and they are beginning to realize what the average golfer thinks about them

 

3 I also think they are beginning to realize that maybe they in the future may lose the PGA Tour and PGAOA . If that happens what is for them to "govern" but their own events.

 

This is just my opinion and is not etched in stone or absolute and I may be 180* off

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The independence of both the PGA Tour and the PGA of America

 

from the USGA

 

would free the USGA to concentrate on how best to support

the recreational players

who play at the USGA member clubs

and to sanction their events in a more appropriate way

than they do now..

 

And if they fail to do that well to the satisfaction of club players,

their significance diminishes completely.

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Hit ball, walk to ball, repeat. Why must everything be made so complicated?

 

The USGA has been in bed with club manufacturers for years. First, it was “old clubs will be non-conforming, you'll need to buy new clubs.” OEM's rejoiced $$$$$$$$!

 

Now it's “Those clubs you bought hit the ball too far, we need to dial it back, so what you just bought will soon be non-conforming again.” OEM's rejoice again $$$$$$$$!

 

The problems aren't with the game of golf. The game of golf is as beautiful and simple as it's always been. The problems are the people in board rooms at the OEMs and the USGA who don't give a damn about the game, just how much money they can extract from the golfing consumer.

 

 

 

 

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My concern with a ball rollback is that it will not just cover the driver, but literally flow through the entire bag.

A reduction in iron distance will certainly follow any reduction from the driver. Again, do your own distances with what you get now, and deduct by 15% or 20%.

Do it for a golf hole that you play now,

You can see what clubs you normally use vs. what clubs you would use with the above percentages.

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