Distance Issue

[jlukes 11,128]

I still don't get the 460cc thing...

 

DJ hit a Persimmon Driver that is like 150cc 300 yards. Extra air inside the club is BS.

 

If you find the middle of the 460cc why couldn't you find the middle of a 300cc?

 

The middle is the middle no matter if it is 1000cc or 100c.

 

Tiger hit a 175cc Driver 300+, and probably still could.

 

I'm glad I am in the 1% that hates 460cc drivers, gives me something to argue about.

460 cc is about forgiveness and ability to relocate the CG, which obviously would help amateurs more than pros.

 

Why do people keep bringing up what pros would do with smaller drivers?

[jlukes 11,128]

This could be a blatant violation of the morals code,

but it's also totally and inarguably relevant to the game of golf.

 

I would bet everything on the widening income gap being the biggest single factor in the scaling back of golf.

 

Factory workers played golf in the 1960s and 1970s.

Lots of them.

And those folks are all elderly like me or dead now.

It had nothing to do with the yet unborn Tiger Woods.

 

Now, we hardly have any factory workers in comparison.

I have no idea what that has to do with the moral code... Or frankly just about anything...

[jlukes 11,128]

If someone wants to blades or smaller wood heads, the options are out there for them.

 

Why do those people need to judge others that want to use different equipment that makes the game easier for them?

 

Play what makes you happy and helps you get the most enjoyment out of the game and let others do the same.

 

It's

 

That

 

Friggen

 

Simple

[Shankster 19,690]

430 445 dont look any different than the 460 clubs.

 

So you basically get one end of the spectrum. BIG.

 

And the distance issue... there were a lot of questions on the survey about what the pros are doing... Like are the pros hitting it too far, are there too many long drives... etc.

[revkev 18,739]

I like the point made here. Shaq couldn't switch out and shoot a different basketball to try and correct his atrocious free throw shooting . Tom Brady can't legally play with flatter or smaller footballs to throw further or more accurately. It would be interesting to see Rory or Tiger or Rickie all have to play a set of clubs that had the exact same flex characteristics, lofts, lengths, and so forth. Since they are all fine tuned athletes, I am sure they would still dominate the sport without a problem, but it would be interesting to see how their strategy and club selection changed to accommodate issues they experienced with the clubs, since they would no longer be tuned exactly to their specific needs. Stricter standardization of equipment may actually be a possible solution to the distance problem instead of trying to roll back golf ball technology, who knows. But I think that would put a lot of the custom component companies out of business, so it would never happen anyway.

 

As far as people saying bifurcation would hurt companies from a marketing standpoint, I doubt it would make any type of difference. People bought Nike golf clubs and golf clubs because of Tiger, but how many people did you see playing the blade irons he was playing? Same with Rickie Fowler - people that love him will still go out and buy Cobra clubs, but I think it is a vast minority that actually goes out and buys the Cobra blade irons that he is bagging. I think people are more loyal to brand name than the actual specific equipment that golfers are using - i.e. "Rory hits the ball far, he plays Taylor Made, so I am going to go buy Taylor Made" more so than "I am going to buy the Taylor Made M3 driver".

 

I also wonder about what effect course design change (longer rough, tighter fairways, more hazards) would have on recreational golfers. Let's say that happened, so suddenly pros rarely play driver anymore off the tee box, they start just using woods and irons. Does the recreational golfer start to do the same, since, lets be honest, the majority of the public tries to emulate what the pros do, especially when you are first learning any type of sport. Kids chuck 3's at a young age in basketball now (which, as a basketball coach, I hate since the majority of the time this messes up their shooting form), and everyone wants to hit the deep bomb like Dustin now, so would people stop using certain clubs and follow what pros do, even though it actually hurts your chance to score better? Does golf become less fun to watch or play because if this - would you want to watch US Open type conditions every single week?

Interesting thoughts. I enjoy s reading them and wish we were here with our favorite beverages to discuss

 

@nifty there is no doubt that there were multiple factors that led to the post Tiger boom bust in golf. But the economy has rebounded significantly. The cost of the game has decreased. There are more people who can afford to play golf now than could in 2004 when the sport was booming.

 

And I agree there is a widening economic divide but that has very little impact on golf.

 

So my question is why don't more people point to the controversial USGA decisions as a factor in Golf's decline. They correspond every bit as much as anything else does.

 

 

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[THEZIPR23 3,022]

So my question is why don't more people point to the controversial USGA decisions as a factor in Golf's decline. They correspond every bit as much as anything else does.

 

 

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Which ones do you think factor in to the decline? Just curious, I think the USGA is as worthless as a lot of other organizations, golf related or not.

[GB13 5,791]

Interesting thoughts. I enjoy s reading them and wish we were here with our favorite beverages to discuss

 

@nifty there is no doubt that there were multiple factors that led to the post Tiger boom bust in golf. But the economy has rebounded significantly. The cost of the game has decreased. There are more people who can afford to play golf now than could in 2004 when the sport was booming.

 

And I agree there is a widening economic divide but that has very little impact on golf.

 

So my question is why don't more people point to the controversial USGA decisions as a factor in Golf's decline. They correspond every bit as much as anything else does.

 

 

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I think the larger factor in golf's decline is different generations.

The millennials that should have been the next generation of golfers were attracted more to social media and are part of an instant gratification society. They don't understand the value of 4 hours on a golf course and don't like the slow progression and hard work needed to become a good golfer. I am afraid golf isn't "techy" enough for millennials and future generations.

 

I think while the USGA has made a series of bad desicions for the game, it is too easy to blame the entire decline on them while 95% of golfers don't give two sh!ts what the USGA say.

 

Sorry for the get off my lawn rant. This post is simply made to create discussion not to offend anyone so please don't take it that way.

[jlukes 11,128]

I think the larger factor in golf's decline is different generations.

The millennials that should have been the next generation of golfers were attracted more to social media and are part of an instant gratification society. They don't understand the value of 4 hours on a golf course and don't like the slow progression and hard work needed to become a good golfer. I am afraid golf isn't "techy" enough for millennials and future generations.

 

I think while the USGA has made a series of bad desicions for the game, it is too easy to blame the entire decline on them while 95% of golfers don't give two sh!ts what the USGA say.

 

Sorry for the get off my lawn rant. This post is simply made to create discussion not to offend anyone so please don't take it that way.

I think any company that blames "millennials" for lack of interest in their product is lazy and doesn't have the self awareness that their company failed to adapt to changing markets (when markets have ALWAYS changed).

 

Millennials is nothing but a scape goat term

[GB13 5,791]

I think any company that blames "millennials" for lack of interest in their product is lazy and doesn't have the self awareness that their company failed to adapt to changing markets (when markets have ALWAYS changed).

 

Millennials is nothing but a scape goat term

How would you change golf to better suit a changing market? I won't disagree that markets have changed but golf has weathered 400 years of changing markets. It has weathered the Industrial Revolution, WW1, WW2, and every other era without much change.

 

Is the answer digital golf on simulators or what?

[jlukes 11,128]

How would you change golf to better suit a changing market? I won't disagree that markets have changed but golf has weathered 400 years of changing markets. It has weathered the Industrial Revolution, WW1, WW2, and every other era without much change.

 

Is the answer digital golf on simulators or what?

Golf has changed a ton since then.

 

Equipment has changed. Television coverage has changed. The way clubs are sold has changed. Apparel and style has changed. Accessibility has changed dramatically (first tee programs, driving ranges, mini golf, top golf, etc)

 

The game itself doesn't have to change, but it can be expanded and consumed in different ways so that it grows as society as a whole changes

[NiftyNiblick 1,905]

I have no idea what that has to do with the moral code... Or frankly just about anything...

I'll explain for you, jlukes.

The widening income gap is a flat out political issue of the nature proscribed by the morals code.

 

I still think that all those baby boomer (and older than baby boomer) factory workers

who played golf in the days of high paying union factory jobs

have not been replaced now that we're fading away.

 

I was an office worker, a results accountant,

but I include myself with them because it was a good union job.

 

And Rev, I'm not comparing things to 2004.

I'm comparing them to the 50s, 60s, and 70s when working class golf exploded.

 

I hope that helps.

[Rickp 13,375]

Guys, I'm looking at the equipment such as the driver size maybe a bit different. I'm 72 all my peers and playing friends range from 65 to 80+ years old. Most need a driver the size of a Volkswagen Beetle just to hit the ball 150 yards. I'm not talking a handful of guys but entire senior communities. They want the most they can get out of their clubs and ball and they don't care what any ruling body has to say.

They are seniors with a couple bucks enjoying their retirement years and could care less what any Pro has “WITB”. I may not agree with their interpretation of the rules but what the he$$ it doesn't hurt anyone.

I think I got off track, anyway these folks spend money on clubs, balls, carts, all kinds of clothes and equipment mess with the dynamics this cash cow could go away.

 

 

 

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[GB13 5,791]

Golf has changed a ton since then.

 

Equipment has changed. Television coverage has changed. The way clubs are sold has changed. Apparel and style has changed. Accessibility has changed dramatically (first tee programs, driving ranges, mini golf, top golf, etc)

 

The game itself doesn't have to change, but it can be expanded and consumed in different ways so that it grows as society as a whole changes

I can agree with that. But at the end of the day, the game remains largely unchanged.

 

Sorry, if my posts came off as offensive, it has been a challenging day.

[NiftyNiblick 1,905]

My physical ailments robbed me of a possible game with Rickp.

 

We're about the same age and would have had similar handicaps.

 

We both wear Red Sox caps.

 

And I don't hate Florida, particularly between Christmas and Easter.

 

Wasn't to be, i guess, but I'm sure that it would have been a good time.

[Rickp 13,375]

My physical ailments robbed me of a possible game with Rickp.

 

We're about the same age and would have had similar handicaps.

 

We both wear Red Sox caps.

 

And I don't hate Florida, particularly between Christmas and Easter.

 

Wasn't to be, i guess, but I'm sure that it would have been a good time.

True that

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[revkev 18,739]

I'll explain for you, jlukes.

The widening income gap is a flat out political issue of the nature proscribed by the morals code.

 

I still think that all those baby boomer (and older than baby boomer) factory workers

who played golf in the days of high paying union factory jobs

have not been replaced now that we're fading away.

 

I was an office worker, a results accountant,

but I include myself with them because it was a good union job.

 

And Rev, I'm not comparing things to 2004.

I'm comparing them to the 50s, 60s, and 70s when working class golf exploded.

 

I hope that helps.

It does but way more people were playing golf in 2000 than in the 50's- 70's. Tiger created a boom like no one else.

 

I don't think it's political to say that the economy has changed. It becomes political when we discuss the whys - so we won't do that. The Economy has changed but there are lots of younger people with money who are not taking up golf. Keeping Merion and Shinnecock as championship venues are not on their list of concerns. That's not what's going to get them to take up the game.

 

 

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[Rickp 13,375]

True that

 

 

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Back in the day a “few” Adult Beverages

 

 

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[BIG STU 5,298]

If someone wants to blades or smaller wood heads, the options are out there for them.

 

Why do those people need to judge others that want to use different equipment that makes the game easier for them?

 

Play what makes you happy and helps you get the most enjoyment out of the game and let others do the same.

 

It's

 

That

 

Friggen

 

Simple

Gotta agree with you 110% on that one even though I am of the Persimmon / Blades camp---- Since I do not play comps or serious money matches any more I enjoy playing the vintage stuff, But with that being said I could care less what anyone else plays as long as they have fun doing so. I am going to play what I want to and so should anyone else

[BIG STU 5,298]

I think the larger factor in golf's decline is different generations.

The millennials that should have been the next generation of golfers were attracted more to social media and are part of an instant gratification society. They don't understand the value of 4 hours on a golf course and don't like the slow progression and hard work needed to become a good golfer. I am afraid golf isn't "techy" enough for millennials and future generations.

 

I think while the USGA has made a series of bad desicions for the game, it is too easy to blame the entire decline on them while 95% of golfers don't give two sh!ts what the USGA say.

 

Sorry for the get off my lawn rant. This post is simply made to create discussion not to offend anyone so please don't take it that way.

And I will PROUDLY tell you or anyone else that I am one of the 95% of the golfers that you mentioned  that does not give "two Sh!ts" about the USGA or the R&A or the PGA for that matter

[BIG STU 5,298]

I can agree with that. But at the end of the day, the game remains largely unchanged.

 

Sorry, if my posts came off as offensive, it has been a challenging day.

FWIW--- You or anyone else in this thread have not offended me in any way shape form or fashion. I like different opinions it is brain food