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Kor.A.Door

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6 hours ago, GB13 said:

All you need is an Oban Purple and a can of orange spray paint. 😜

 

... LOL, I gave a Purple Ice fairway shaft to an old cheap friend of mine and he spray painted the entire thing black. Needless to say it looked like sh!t. 

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Personally I think the wrong driver won. This driver will not sell at 499. There is no real new tech in it. So as for the innovation for the show this one missed the mark. Pretty much have no plans to check this one out. I don’t think this will work out for Wilson. It’s just another 500 dollar driver that’s just like the rest. Maybe I am wrong,  that happens from time to time. 

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Personally I think the wrong driver won. This driver will not sell at 499. There is no real new tech in it. So as for the innovation for the show this one missed the mark. Pretty much have no plans to check this one out. I don’t think this will work out for Wilson. It’s just another 500 dollar driver that’s just like the rest. Maybe I am wrong,  that happens from time to time. 


Someone mentioned it in another thread but in all honesty, driver technology has been leveled off for some time now. Until the next revolution we’re stuck with movable weights and adjusting MOI.

I’m going into this with an open mind and figure wby not let the club do the talking.


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37 minutes ago, GB13 said:

All you need is an Oban Purple and a can of orange spray paint. 😜

A little on the rough side.  But deep down...I like it! 

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2 minutes ago, jlukes said:

I wonder if Rick Shiels is going to game this thing

I surprised he hasn't yet dropped a review of it on his channel.

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30 minutes ago, bens197 said:

 


Someone mentioned it in another thread but in all honesty, driver technology has been leveled off for some time now. Until the next revolution we’re stuck with movable weights and adjusting MOI.

I’m going into this with an open mind and figure wby not let the club do the talking.


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That’s just it, the Rozwell had some new tech, and in most cases out perfomered the cortex. The only catagory where cortex outperformed Rozwell was off center hits. 

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27 minutes ago, jlukes said:

I wonder if Rick Shiels is going to game this thing

That's an interesting subplot I'm looking forward to watching develop here. No doubt Rick will test it and it will get some vlog time, hell it may even be his gamer for all year going forward. What I'm interested in is if Rick is going to take some heat from the online golf community regardless, because of perceived shill status for Wilson much in the way Mark Crossfield ate some heat for his Titleist deal, especially if it performs a step behind other OEM stuff

8 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

That’s just it, the Rozwell had some new tech, and in most cases out perfomered the cortex. The only catagory where cortex outperformed Rozwell was off center hits. 

Well Kor, I'd argue that's a pretty important standard for most drivers in the hands and eyes of the amateur.

Look, I think that Rozwell was the cooler more innovative design as well. Cortex doesn't scream new and fresh to me, but it's like Tony and Sam said in their review video, Wilson can't afford to get this wrong again. At the end of the day they are a publicly traded company and have to make money for the shareholders. Sure, Wilson Staff is a small piece of that pie, but a piece nonetheless. By putting something out there as risky as Rozwell or any other design that didn't make it, Wilson would have put themselves in danger of a dud, a risk no company wants to take and be left taking a huge loss on. Now, do I think the $500 pricepoint is good? No, 399-449 should have been where it was at, but it is what it is.

I hope it works out for Wilson, golf is better with more companies doing well and pushing the boundaries. Here's hoping that those Chicago boys get this thing right and it works for everyone.

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I agree with everyone on the price point. While nothing in the cortex screams new technology just proven technology in a shiny new shell, a price point around the $399 range would have some uneducated buyers looking at it just to save a few bucks. There will be a lot of golfers that won’t even try it when they see it is the same price as Cally, TM, Cobra, and Titleist. In my opinion the lower price point would increase its shelf appeal. Wilson definitely missed an opportunity here.


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12 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

I agree with everyone on the price point. While nothing in the cortex screams new technology just proven technology in a shiny new shell, a price point around the $399 range would have some uneducated buyers looking at it just to save a few bucks. There will be a lot of golfers that won’t even try it when they see it is the same price as Cally, TM, Cobra, and Titleist. In my opinion the lower price point would increase its shelf appeal. Wilson definitely missed an opportunity here.


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Yeah they are in between that rock and hard place. Coming in at $450 probably quells some of the “its too high” talk while still allowing them to be in the market where the big guns are.  At $450 I would have not had an issue with price. 

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26 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

I agree with everyone on the price point. While nothing in the cortex screams new technology just proven technology in a shiny new shell, a price point around the $399 range would have some uneducated buyers looking at it just to save a few bucks. There will be a lot of golfers that won’t even try it when they see it is the same price as Cally, TM, Cobra, and Titleist. In my opinion the lower price point would increase its shelf appeal. Wilson definitely missed an opportunity here.


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If they price is low they will be perceived as a discount brand. They want to be taken serious and priced it where other top brands are.

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Yeah they are in between that rock and hard place. Coming in at $450 probably quells some of the “its too high” talk while still allowing them to be in the market where the big guns are.  At $450 I would have not had an issue with price. 

I think $450 would still be too high to reach the recreational golfers. IMO if Wilson Staff wants a bigger market share they need to reach more recreational golfers and offering similar tech in a lower price point is how they can do it. Why keep hitting their heads on a wall when the same price point hasn’t been working. Don’t get me wrong I plan on trying it and if it is better I have no problem paying the $500 price point but I can’t say the same for others. They need something other than similar tech at the same price point for shelf appeal otherwise I think they are throwing money away.


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11 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:


I think $450 would still be too high to reach the recreational golfers. IMO if Wilson Staff wants a bigger market share they need to reach more recreational golfers and offering similar tech in a lower price point is how they can do it. Why keep hitting their heads on a wall when the same price point hasn’t been working. Don’t get me wrong I plan on trying it and if it is better I have no problem paying the $500 price point but I can’t say the same for others. They need something other than similar tech at the same price point for shelf appeal otherwise I think they are throwing money away.

 

... I am sure there were meetings, charts, consumer test groups and many other variables that went into this $499 decision but it still seems to be ill conceived. It reminds me of my local muni. About 5 years ago they were losing money as rounds were down because they didn't have a loyalty program and did not participate with discount golf sites like GolfNow, Teetimes.com, etc and their prices were not competitive with other courses in the area. So the Park District came up with the plan of raising rates to make up for the lost rounds. Brilliant! Imagine their surprise when they found they lost even more money that year. Duh. So they sent out a user survey asking what they could do to get golfers to play there more often. Not surpisingly they found golfers wanted 1) lower rates that were competitive with other courses 2) A Loyalty card that gave them price reductions in the afternoon and twilite 3) take advantage ]f discount golf sites. 

... Next year they brought out a $25 card that gave you $5 off every round so it paid for itself in 5 rounds. Lowered their standard rates. Started using discount golf sites. They have been making money ever since. 

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35 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:


I think $450 would still be too high to reach the recreational golfers. IMO if Wilson Staff wants a bigger market share they need to reach more recreational golfers and offering similar tech in a lower price point is how they can do it. Why keep hitting their heads on a wall when the same price point hasn’t been working. Don’t get me wrong I plan on trying it and if it is better I have no problem paying the $500 price point but I can’t say the same for others. They need something other than similar tech at the same price point for shelf appeal otherwise I think they are throwing money away.


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I don’t disagree on $450 still being too high but it would make more sense to me at that price. I think $400 is where it really should be but I think that price is about where they run the risk of maintaining the “cheap” rep.

also agree on needing something different in visible tech and be able to sell to the masses we are better and we have something different. Even if it’s similar approach to what Callaway did with jail break. The guts and tech are hidden inside but the outside shows where the tech connects and they can sell it with visual 

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If they price is low they will be perceived as a discount brand. They want to be taken serious and priced it where other top brands are.

I understand they want to be taken seriously but you can’t gain recognition for doing what somebody else is doing and pricing it the same. If they want the recognition they need something other than Driver VS. Driver to make them stand out. $400 for a driver is by no means cheap and if they think that would make them a discount brand then they may need some new employees. Recognition comes from getting the driver into as many hands as possible and without a lower price point they lost a lot of hands IMO. What they are doing isn’t working the way they want it to and as I said earlier continuing to beat your head on the same wall over and over shows a lack of vision and may lead them down a path they can’t get away from.


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I agree that the pricing will be an issue. Wouldn’t be surprised if many people who were looking to upgrade to this driver (at a lower price point) are drawn to the new $299 EXS driver from Tour Edge-they could end up the real winners here.


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3 hours ago, bergtaur said:

That's an interesting subplot I'm looking forward to watching develop here. No doubt Rick will test it and it will get some vlog time, hell it may even be his gamer for all year going forward. What I'm interested in is if Rick is going to take some heat from the online golf community regardless, because of perceived shill status for Wilson much in the way Mark Crossfield ate some heat for his Titleist deal, especially if it performs a step behind other OEM stuff

Well Kor, I'd argue that's a pretty important standard for most drivers in the hands and eyes of the amateur.

Look, I think that Rozwell was the cooler more innovative design as well. Cortex doesn't scream new and fresh to me, but it's like Tony and Sam said in their review video, Wilson can't afford to get this wrong again. At the end of the day they are a publicly traded company and have to make money for the shareholders. Sure, Wilson Staff is a small piece of that pie, but a piece nonetheless. By putting something out there as risky as Rozwell or any other design that didn't make it, Wilson would have put themselves in danger of a dud, a risk no company wants to take and be left taking a huge loss on. Now, do I think the $500 pricepoint is good? No, 399-449 should have been where it was at, but it is what it is.

I hope it works out for Wilson, golf is better with more companies doing well and pushing the boundaries. Here's hoping that those Chicago boys get this thing right and it works for everyone.

I completely agree on this. I just think they chose the wrong one. They chose the one they thought would appeal to the majority of people, but putting a 499 price tag on it, they lost huge interest right there. I have no desire to even try it, and I certainly ain’t paying 499 for it. 

Maybe if I can find or next year for 150 in the used rack at GG I will give it a swing, but I won’t be looking for one to swing. 

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1 hour ago, blackngold_blood said:


I understand they want to be taken seriously but you can’t gain recognition for doing what somebody else is doing and pricing it the same. If they want the recognition they need something other than Driver VS. Driver to make them stand out. $400 for a driver is by no means cheap and if they think that would make them a discount brand then they may need some new employees. Recognition comes from getting the driver into as many hands as possible and without a lower price point they lost a lot of hands IMO. What they are doing isn’t working the way they want it to and as I said earlier continuing to beat your head on the same wall over and over shows a lack of vision and may lead them down a path they can’t get away from.


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I think getting it in the hands of people like Shiels and the MSG guys takes it out to a bigger market. 

They did something different than anyone else the first time and it failed.

I guess there is just no winning with some people. Put out a new and different design, people s*** on it. Put out something more like mainstream drivers after feedback from the public, people s*** on it. 

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I think getting it in the hands of people like Shiels and the MSG guys takes it out to a bigger market. 
They did something different than anyone else the first time and it failed.
I guess there is just no winning with some people. Put out a new and different design, people s*** on it. Put out something more like mainstream drivers after feedback from the public, people s*** on it. 

I think you misunderstand where I’m coming from on it. I am no way trying to crap on it by any means. In fact I can’t wait to try it and if it performs better, I have no problem paying the $499 for it. I personally don’t think putting it into the hands of Shiels does anything for them after he was a judge.

Plus without numbers showing it’s better than TM, Cally, etc, the same price point gets you nothing. However the same or better numbers at a lower price point gets you more product sold.

Again this is just my opinion on why I think they missed the mark on this one. I personally think they chose the right one and think it looks awesome. I can’t wait to hit it.


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5 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Bite off your nose to spite your face Nifty?  I get the sentiment as I too really disliked white shafts when they were introduced because I found them distracting and didn't play one for quite awhile. But I kept an open mind and IF I ever found one that was better than what I was playing I would game it. That scenario manifested itself with the Rogue Black Tour shaft as it out performed everything and was the best feeling shaft I had ever hit. If you play this game to be the best you can be, it is a no brainer to play the best performing and feeling shaft even if it is bright orange and purple (although hopefully nobody produces an excellent shaft in those colors 🤪)

You may have hit it right on the head, Chi.

I always tried to play as well as I could--which isn't exactly the same as trying to become the best player I could be.  The latter is a much more demanding quest.

I already had a job.

I'd already experienced a sport where I had to perform as well as I possibly could or be concussed, and I took that sport seriously enough not to get concussed.

In retrospect,  I clearly played golf for the ambiance of playing golf--

pretty scenery, fresh air, mind off other things, fun with my friends.

 

 

That's what I'm really missing now,  at least.

 

To take it further, though, I never played at the level you played. I never came close to being a "plus."

 

If a shaft wasn't too tip stiff to let me get the ball up in the air for good carry,

or so torquey  that I sprayed all over the place with decent hits,

that shaft was going to play as well as I could play.

And the shaft was graphite because it didn't make my abused hands swell as much.

 

In that way, I could afford to consider looks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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