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New clubs are very expensive, but...


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11 minutes ago, NiftyNiblick said:

We're getting these cost posts

because I clearly titled the thread badly.

I should have gone with the Rolling Stones.

You Can't Always Get What You Want.

Your Stones quote is on point.   Permit me to finish it  "but if you try real hard, you can get what you need".    So regarding golf equipment are we willing to pay for what we want,  not necessarily what we need. 

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Expensive varies by each person. The clubs on the American market are cheap when compared to the Asian market.

to some pxg maybe expensive and to others not so much because they want them and price doesn’t matter.  Scotty Cameron tour putter may be expensive to some when they feel for a lot less they can get an otr putter.

technology, materials, labor, r&d, marketing all play a factor into the cost.

As for getting what you want you could find some one who does one offs and pay the price for the custom work.  Whether we like how oems do thinks their goal is to make money and the easiest way is to build and market to the majority of golfers. They find a head size, shape, construction that works for most and pair it with a shaft that will fit most golfers.  They offer customization to a point to fit those who want/need to fine tune the stock setup

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, NiftyNiblick said:

I remember when four pro shop woods cost $160,

nine pro shop irons cost $225,

and a good, pro shop putter cost $25 or $30.

Now there are no pro shop only clubs

and the store model set costs three to four grand.

 

And if you order exotic shafts,

you can top the five grand mark with little trouble.

 

The modern technology is impressive,

yet,

if I had all the money in the world,

I'd have to own the company to get my ideal set of clubs.

They're simply not available from the current OEMs

or even the boutique clubmakers.

 

I understand what this means:  I'm extremely atypical.

We have a forum full of golf enthusiasts, and nobody--

nobody at all--

shares my contempt for the OEMs.

It's obviously just me, or would be  if I could still play.

 

Still, with the exorbitant cost of modern, new golf clubs,

I would ask a simple question.

 

Do the OEM's offer too many redundant models,

while not offering a full range of spec options

within the models?

 

In addition to head, shaft and grip otions,

shouldn't there be more spec options too?

At today's prices,

if I want a 300cc, 13º driver with a 1º open face and a 55º lie angle,

shouldn't that be easy to get?

If I want a set of irons with a 30º 5-iron and 46º 9-iron.

shouldn't that be easy to get?

If i want non-conforming box grooves,

shouldn't those be easy to get?  At least with a premium charge?

At least when I'm asked to spend four grand for a set?

Or was I forced to leave golf at the right time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I noted this in the Titleist article by T.Covey

 

Even the elite golfers who once flocked to Titleist in droves were playing other brands. It’s no secret that pay for play dominates at the professional level. He who pays the most wins the count, but what opened eyes at Titleist was the significant decline in play at events like the NCAA and US Amateur Championship. Once the leader, Titleist found itself just a couple of drivers away from dropping to 4th in the count. The consumer market as a whole followed much the same trajectory. 

 

We are all paying for the R&D that goes into making the clubs that the tour players want to use and paying whatever it costs so that the brand recognition is there.  For example, Titleist ensures that everyones knows about how any balls are being played on the tours. 

 

Has nothing to do with us, but we pay for it by "wanting to play what the pros play".

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What's in my Mizuno BR-D2 bag

OFFICIAL TESTER FOR THE PING i500 CLUBS.

Currently playing Ping i500 w/ Alta CB graphite shafts 

  :mizuno-small: MP 25 - fitted w/ Project X shafts - stiff

  :titelist-small: 60  / 56  :mizuno-small: 52

  :titelist-small: 910 D2 driver - 9.5 degree -fitted13   F 3 wood 13.5 deg   :nike-small: CPR 3 hybrid

:nike-small: Method mallet

Dexterity:

I shoot left-handed so no one can ask me "Hey, can I try that club?" 

Twitter @GolfingHat      Instagram  @Mizunostixgolfnut

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I can honestly say with all sincerity that I can't remember ever caring that much about what gear the pros play.

I loved to play, but watching pro golf was never super big for me.

I liked to try what my friends were playing until I got an idea of what was what.

Then,  at some point, I didn't care what anybody else was playing--obviously from my posts!

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, TheWahoo said:

The value of any commodity not related to basic needs is based on what one is willing to pay and another is willing to accept.   For multiple reasons, I guess, golfers, especially those labelled "hos" are willing to pay and the OEMs most assuredly are willing to accept.  If one does not like the prices, then do not be willing to pay it.   Sooner of later the prices will come down with each newer version and if enough of the consumer market is not willing to pay, the prices will come down even sooner.

OK, OK , I would guess there are some here that consider that new shiny club a basic need.

 

... When Srixon offered the Z Star for $39.99 I talked to them at the PGA Show and told them it was easy to review and recommend the Z Star because it performed as well or better than any ball I had played and was $5 less than the other balls selling for $45.99 or more. Most golfers were not on board yet, so positive reviews and players experience were crucial and getting someone to try a new ball when they are happy with their current ball just isn't gonna happen at the same price. But at $5 cheaper, some would be wiling to give them a shot and that is how you build word of mouth. I was a little shocked to hear they were raising the price to $45.99 and I said I thought that is a huge mistake. The Marketing Director agreed it was a mistake but said Sales had done their projections and the increased profit would out weigh the loss of customers. Typical Corporate thinking because they had some momentum and this would change that momentum. A few years later they admitted their mistake and dropped the price back down to $39.99 but they lost market share and momentum. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max ... Diamana Limited 60R
Fairway:  Cobra SZ 14.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 7S
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Nippon 950gh r-flex
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Nippon 950gh r-flex
                 Mizuno T20 58* ... Nippon 950gh r-flex
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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  • 2 years later...

I think I understand what the OP is saying. But I have questions. We’re you ever able to order a driver head that was 35% smaller than standard? I hear what you’re saying about length and lie, but companies will accommodate those requests. For instance, you can request a driver head from Ping that measures at 9.25 degrees instead of the stated 9 degrees. Wouldn’t that be the same as ordering a persimmon in your preferred loft?  You can order any number of different shaft lengths. I see different iron models on the market that range from 27 degrees to 36 degrees in “7” irons. My point is that you can order a dizzying array of custom options. Last week I ordered a set of PXG 0211 irons on the phone. I was able to specify custom lengths, lies and lofts for each club separately. And the cost was only $84 per club.

It seems to me there is plenty of variety out there. And, if you are averse to chain stores, you can still order through your local club pro. 

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14 of the following:

Ping G400 Max

Cobra King F9 Speedback 3 wood

Callaway Big Bertha Heavenwood

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Taylormade M4 5 hybrid

Callaway Mavrik Max 6-GW

PXG 0211 5-GW

PXG 0211 sand wedge bent to 53 degrees

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

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This may or may not fit into the prime subject disscussion, but it's offered anyway. A playing partner went whole hog for a fitting and expensive clubs. Total cost was just at 5K and he was as proud as a peacock. First round out with them and he shot his normal score, which was decent enough but not earth shattering for what he paid. Now in the group behind us, which were a part of our total group, we had our resident old fogey (76+) who plays irons from the early 80's a somewhat newish 8 year old driver and 3 wood off the rack and a Ping putter circa 1967. Well when settling up after the round, Mr 76 won 3 skins, 2 greenies and tied for lowest putts. Mr peacock won zip, but was still proud of his look at me set and bag. Bottom line is as the old saying goes, "it's the indian not the arrow"

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On 10/4/2018 at 9:29 AM, cnosil said:

You need to factor the cost of materials and labor into you discussion. What would the cost of the clubs you mentioned be in today’s dollars?

I think OEMs offer lots of options and in the case of putters I need to make some sacrifices, but used, or do custom to get what I need.

You have the ability to get everything you want. Length, lie, and loft are all able to be changed. People modify the off the standard co figuration if clubs all the time. It would be i
Possible for an OEM to be able to custom build a set for every person that wanted one.

I once had to do this calculation manually.  There is considerably more technology in modern equipment that are benefitting us as players and, simply looking at the cost increase alone, we're basically getting that for free.  So @NiftyNiblickI would contend that you got out of the sport too soon, need to schedule yourself a full bag fitting, and put a $2000 worth of clubs into a brand new golf bag 👍.

image.png.0bc7d33cf67e7b5690f17866aac90068.png

 

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver | Official 2019 MGS Tester

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:ping-small: G410 Irons 4-UW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:ping-small: B61 Putter

 

 

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Was that about the same time the a guy called Noah built a big boat🤣.

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Currently Costco Kirkland Performance 3 Piece but Seed 001 is preferred.

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On 10/4/2018 at 12:22 PM, chisag said:

"In addition to head, shaft and grip options, 

shouldn't there be more spec options too?

At today's prices,

if I want a 300cc, 13º driver with a 1º open face and a 55º lie angle,

shouldn't that be easy to get?

If I want a set of irons with a 30º 5-iron and 46º 9-iron.

shouldn't that be easy to get?

If i want non-conforming box grooves,

shouldn't those be easy to get?  At least with a premium charge?"

... None of those specs were ever easy to get or even available from OEMs.

 

This, chisag, is simply not true.

I actually have clubs with many of those specs.

They're old and worn and very low tech by today's standards, and realistically no longer playable,

but they not only existed in the 60s and 70s-- they were actually EASY to get.

No matter. 

I can't play.   

I do wonder, however, if I, who really  loved to play, would today play if I could.

I post like this more to muse aloud than to seek agreement.

And actually, clubs with specs that I like are actually available right now.

They're brand new replicas of hickory shafted models made by Louisville Golf today.

And Louisville does customize specs as that's easy to do with simple, low tech clubs.

I suppose that if I did play today, I'd probably play with Louisville Golf hickories.

 

 

 

On 10/4/2018 at 12:22 PM, chisag said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/2/2020 at 9:30 AM, ballhawk said:

This may or may not fit into the prime subject disscussion, but it's offered anyway. A playing partner went whole hog for a fitting and expensive clubs. Total cost was just at 5K and he was as proud as a peacock. First round out with them and he shot his normal score, which was decent enough but not earth shattering for what he paid. Now in the group behind us, which were a part of our total group, we had our resident old fogey (76+) who plays irons from the early 80's a somewhat newish 8 year old driver and 3 wood off the rack and a Ping putter circa 1967. Well when settling up after the round, Mr 76 won 3 skins, 2 greenies and tied for lowest putts. Mr peacock won zip, but was still proud of his look at me set and bag. Bottom line is as the old saying goes, "it's the indian not the arrow"

That’s awesome and so true. I know new clubs won’t help my scores go down since I’m fittted for my set but it’s part of the hobby for me to keep golf interesting in trying new clubs. My scores stay relatively similar if I play blades or SGI. My biggest score impact is how close I chip to help lower my overall putts in a round. Putting for me makes the biggest difference. Other clubs are just fun to try out and hit for me. I like new shiny stuff and look for deals so I can have fun and move them on to someone else at a good deal too. Club deals can be had if you are patient and check out the bay enough. 

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Driver: TSi3 8 Diamana D+ 70TX

TSi2 18 Tensei Raw White 85TX

DI: ZX Utility 18* AD DI 95x 

Irons: 4 - Z765 X100 AND 5-PW MIURA CB X7

Wedges: SM8 50.12 at 51,  RTX zipcore 55, 60 mid - all KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 

Scotty Studio Stainless Newport 2.5 with Stability Shaft

-PROV1X

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On 10/4/2018 at 11:18 AM, NiftyNiblick said:

That's not the game. Not even close to the game, GSwag.

If it were, I remember when gas was 28 cents a gallon and McDonald's burgers were 15 cents.

I actually paid both those prices.

 

The question was whether the OEMs should offer more options with the prices that they charge.

I think the discussion has some relevancy and even more so, when is enough enough?  OEM's charge the price they can because as they market their goods people line up by the millions to continue to buy them.  I liken Golf Equipment to Automobiles or a true comparison. 

Most folks don't need a new car these days until they hit 2-300K miles, and even then there are plenty of situations well taken care of cars go well beyond that.  BUT, we see it all the time that people cycle through automobiles every 2 or 3 years regardless of need because the new product has some new fancy shiney buttons, or does something that they're current model doesn't do particularly well. 

The simple fact is that most good equipment isn't a one or two season purchase.  Truly, if taken care of it can last you almost damn near a lifetime.  Well, except for Drivers and woods these days because as they are hollow they do tend to degrade over time.  I suspect these new pushes towards hollow irons we will see a new avenue for OEMs to utilize the same mentality and push even harder towards new gear all the time.  

In my thoughts, and I haven't played them in MANY MANY years, if you purchase a new set of true Muscle Back Blades you will see that those irons will last you a lifetime without question.  There won't be an opportunity where you will see an OEM come out and say that a newer blade does something different or better than the older ones.  Can't improve much upon a hunk of metal tbh.  Perhaps you would need to change shafts and logically the grips, but not much past that on those.  Well, I suppose the grooves will wear out.  That much is true.  But there are companies that specialize in refinishing clubs to restore them... though you would I suppose theoretically lose some weight etc.  

And here I am rambling again... Sorry. 

So, I'll sum it up in this... I agree that every OEM should have a model that fits every price point and gives people what hey desire at what they can afford.  Unfortunately, I guess, the OEMs don't really care much for peoples wants, and we're complicit in that we continue to buy new stuff without even so much as questioning if we really should or need too.  That's the saddest component to the hold question / discussion you raise. 

But we are on MGS and we all are equipment nuts so... there is that! 😄 

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BNewt51

:taylormade-small:  9* Sim  Hzrdus Smoke "Yellow" Handcrafted 6.5  (Best borrow I've ever made from a buddy)

:callaway-small:Epic Flash - 14* 3-wood Mitsubishi Tensei Blue X-stiff

:titelist-small: TSI2 19* Hybrid Tensei Blue X-Stiff

:taylormade-small: -P770 4-PW KBS C-Taper 120 S 

:taylormade-small: - 50* , 54* and 58* MG2 Wedges  Dynamic Gold Tour S200

:scotty-cameron-1: - Tour Select Square Back

:taylormade-small: - Taylormade Flextech Bag (Blue and Grey)

:taylormade-small: - TP5 and TP5 Pix 

Bushnell Tour V-4 - Non-Slope edition 🙁

*King of taking (borrowing) all my club ***** friends clubs after they've discarded them after a couple months! 🤣

 

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On 10/4/2018 at 1:19 PM, Har in the Hat said:

I noted this in the Titleist article by T.Covey

 

Even the elite golfers who once flocked to Titleist in droves were playing other brands. It’s no secret that pay for play dominates at the professional level. He who pays the most wins the count, but what opened eyes at Titleist was the significant decline in play at events like the NCAA and US Amateur Championship. Once the leader, Titleist found itself just a couple of drivers away from dropping to 4th in the count. The consumer market as a whole followed much the same trajectory. 

 

We are all paying for the R&D that goes into making the clubs that the tour players want to use and paying whatever it costs so that the brand recognition is there.  For example, Titleist ensures that everyones knows about how any balls are being played on the tours. 

 

Has nothing to do with us, but we pay for it by "wanting to play what the pros play".

Something to say for the new toy in the bag vs old reliable. 

:titelist-small: TS3 Tensei Av Raw White 65s

:titelist-small: TS3 15.5 3W Fuji Speeder Tour Spec

:titelist-small: 818 H1 19deg Hybrid Fuji Atmos White or King Cobra UT 18.5 with KBS C Taper

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-GW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM7 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex stiff

:odyssey-small:  Double Wide Stroke Lab 2019 with Super Stroke Tour 3.0

:Snell: MTB-X Golf Ball or Vice Pro Plus

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

:CaddyTek: V8 3 Wheel Push Cart

Leupod Gx2i3 Rangefinder

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