Eureka thought re swing and equipment!

[perseveringgolfer]

Another inconsistent round yesterday. Great shots mixed with embarrassing thins, pulls, fats. Another 0.1 added to the h/cap.

I go home and watch the Dunhill links championship and see so many different swings and equipment with one thing in common, they all strike it well despite different body builds, postures, swing speeds, tempos, swing styles, equipment etc etc

Now I have a reasonable swing and tempo, but I have no idea over every shot what might happen, it could be a career best strike all the way to a shank/thin/block/pull hook/pull or fat.

I've spent years, no it's decades working on swinging the perfect way, and decades changing equipment from blades thru GI clubs, X100 shafts thru regular shafts, cast irons versus forged. You name it I've used it in the vein hope the equipment would help my game.

My handicap and game has stayed close all this time, from 3-8, scores ranged from sub par to 93, rounds ranged from ball on a string to hacking every shot. I'm tinkering and changing my swing during every game.

so here's my thought now, I want to work with a pro over winter who doesn't try and change my swing into the accepted perfect takeaway, the accepted perfect on plane backswing and downswing, the accepted perfect weight transfer and ball position etc etc I want him to work with how I naturally swing, tweak the fundamentals and try equipment that compliments MY swing rather than me fighting to make it FIT. Make sense?

My own pro has a winter package to work with a player over 6 months on all aspects of MY game from analysis to on course instruction and I'm going to ask if he'll work with me to do this.

 

Am I clutching at straws? Am I just destined to play this inconsistent game forever? am I deluded? 

At the very least I think it will be a very interesting experiment/project as something has to change.

What do you guys think?

 

[revkev]

Great topic!

I hate to burst your bubble but the guys you were watching on TV would to a man say lots of the same things as you wrote. Their low score for the year may be 61 but their high was a nasty 80. Their ball striking has periods when it’s spot on but at their level they scrape when their wedges are 14.5 from the hole instead of inside 10 feet like last month.

It’s normal in golf!

As for lessons I’d vote yes. I’ve yet to meet a pro who wanted to change everything. That’s a myth perpetuated by guys who don’t want to change anything but expect to break par over night. More than likely the pro will give you smaller things to work on. At first it will feel a bit uncomfortable but any successful person will tell you that taking steps back is normal in life.

Once he gets to know your swing, ask about equipment or if he has an equipment guy that he recommends.

All of this will narrow the margin a bit - the blow up round is 91 instead of 93, the index is .7 lower and stays more consistent, the bad periods are shorter and farther between.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Kor.A.Door]

There’s nothing wrong with seeking help, since you do have good rounds of golf, it may not be a swing issue, it could be mental, it could be setup, but he big thing is consistency, you don’t do it consistently, chances are that your Pro will work on finding a weakness and make it stronger, and he may take your strengths and make them stronger. So instead of 93, it’s an 89.  I think you are right on track with thinking, taking 6 months over the winter to get good instruction is never a bad thing. Good luck, and listen to what he is telling you. 

[chemclub]

3 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

 

I've spent years, no it's decades working on swinging the perfect way

Just my 2 cents here, but sports psychology research says that can be your biggest problem. When you are too focused on making specific (perfect) movements like when to hinge the wrist etc. you can doom yourself to failure.

It is what the brain folks call being inwardly focused. You are using valuable brain and cognitive resources to focus (inwardly) on motor movements instead of using those resources for focusing on the strike. 

Do you think about hinging your hip and bending your knees at the precise moment to pick your ball out of the hole? I hope not. You see the ball and go get it. Your brain knows how to move your body to get the ball. You just need to remain outwardly focused on the ball and it will appear in your hand.

As a long-time inwardly focused swinger it can be immensely hard to stop. Try watching some Shawn Clement videos. His videos are often much longer than they need to be, but his whole teaching focus is on being outwardly focused. Importantly, not outwardly focused on hitting the ball, but focused on sending the ball in a particular direction. (He also does virtual lessons if you want to go that route).

The theory is that you will feel less fatigue as well since you aren't actively concentrating on controlling things your brain can do without help. You are a sub-10 handicap, I am willing to bet your mechanics are pretty sound already. 

[PING Apologist #9]

1 hour ago, chemclub said:

Just my 2 cents here, but sports psychology research says that can be your biggest problem. When you are too focused on making specific (perfect) movements like when to hinge the wrist etc. you can doom yourself to failure.

It is what the brain folks call being inwardly focused. You are using valuable brain and cognitive resources to focus (inwardly) on motor movements instead of using those resources for focusing on the strike. 

Do you think about hinging your hip and bending your knees at the precise moment to pick your ball out of the hole? I hope not. You see the ball and go get it. Your brain knows how to move your body to get the ball. You just need to remain outwardly focused on the ball and it will appear in your hand.

As a long-time inwardly focused swinger it can be immensely hard to stop. Try watching some Shawn Clement videos. His videos are often much longer than they need to be, but his whole teaching focus is on being outwardly focused. Importantly, not outwardly focused on hitting the ball, but focused on sending the ball in a particular direction. (He also does virtual lessons if you want to go that route).

The theory is that you will feel less fatigue as well since you aren't actively concentrating on controlling things your brain can do without help. You are a sub-10 handicap, I am willing to bet your mechanics are pretty sound already. 

After reading this, it is obvious that I am very "inwardly focused" myself on probably 80% of my shots. Great write-up and sound advice for something that I need to work on as well.

[perseveringgolfer]

2 hours ago, chemclub said:

Just my 2 cents here, but sports psychology research says that can be your biggest problem. When you are too focused on making specific (perfect) movements like when to hinge the wrist etc. you can doom yourself to failure.

It is what the brain folks call being inwardly focused. You are using valuable brain and cognitive resources to focus (inwardly) on motor movements instead of using those resources for focusing on the strike. 

Do you think about hinging your hip and bending your knees at the precise moment to pick your ball out of the hole? I hope not. You see the ball and go get it. Your brain knows how to move your body to get the ball. You just need to remain outwardly focused on the ball and it will appear in your hand.

As a long-time inwardly focused swinger it can be immensely hard to stop. Try watching some Shawn Clement videos. His videos are often much longer than they need to be, but his whole teaching focus is on being outwardly focused. Importantly, not outwardly focused on hitting the ball, but focused on sending the ball in a particular direction. (He also does virtual lessons if you want to go that route).

The theory is that you will feel less fatigue as well since you aren't actively concentrating on controlling things your brain can do without help. You are a sub-10 handicap, I am willing to bet your mechanics are pretty sound already. 

I like this thinking and thought process. years ago I tried a system and coach called 'instinctive golf' which focused on the natural human knowledge we have if we wanted a ball to go left,right,high, low etc it was then about 'instinctively' putting it into practice. It was game changing within 24hrs then my inwardly focused demon crept back and kicked my butt for even looking at another 'new' system

[Big money]

Great thread.But maybe try adjusting your lie angles.Most clubs are way upright.Try playing golf bending your clubs a few degrees flat and adding a a few weights down in the shaft by the club head.Than  use your natural swing 

Its a very difficult game for sure 

[Kor.A.Door]

7 hours ago, chemclub said:

Just my 2 cents here, but sports psychology research says that can be your biggest problem. When you are too focused on making specific (perfect) movements like when to hinge the wrist etc. you can doom yourself to failure.

It is what the brain folks call being inwardly focused. You are using valuable brain and cognitive resources to focus (inwardly) on motor movements instead of using those resources for focusing on the strike. 

Do you think about hinging your hip and bending your knees at the precise moment to pick your ball out of the hole? I hope not. You see the ball and go get it. Your brain knows how to move your body to get the ball. You just need to remain outwardly focused on the ball and it will appear in your hand.

As a long-time inwardly focused swinger it can be immensely hard to stop. Try watching some Shawn Clement videos. His videos are often much longer than they need to be, but his whole teaching focus is on being outwardly focused. Importantly, not outwardly focused on hitting the ball, but focused on sending the ball in a particular direction. (He also does virtual lessons if you want to go that route).

The theory is that you will feel less fatigue as well since you aren't actively concentrating on controlling things your brain can do without help. You are a sub-10 handicap, I am willing to bet your mechanics are pretty sound already. 

This is pretty much the issue I have on he putting green. I got withbour club pro and has me changing my focus. Instead of focusing on the swing, or on the putting stroke. We want to change the focus to making about the feel of the putt, by putting the focus on what I see while putting rather than how to putt. So there are some changes in my routine to do what you are saying, change from inward thinking,  (the process), to outward thinking (doing). It will take some time to be natural with it, but it seems I am on the right track. 

[alfriday101]

I highly recommend the following books for you.  They are pretty easy reads, but take some work to apply to your own game.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Every-Shot-Must-Have-Purpose/dp/1592401570

 

https://www.amazon.com/Be-Player-Breakthrough-Approach-Playing/dp/1476788030/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=F59004WHDKD7TNRENNM5

 

It is time to transition away from trying to swing the perfect swing.  With your handicap, your physical swing is good enough to score.  Learn to focus on what's important.  These books will help.   

[GolfSpy MPR]

After reading this, it is obvious that I am very "inwardly focused" myself on probably 80% of my shots. Great write-up and sound advice for something that I need to work on as well.

On this topic, I'm a big fan of the work of Adam Young. If you want to take a deep nerdy dive into the process of practice, check out his book "The Practice Manual." His offers almost nothing in terms of swing instruction. It's all about the way to practice in a way to improve.

In it, he writes about the five locations our focus can be during a swing. Like you and other analytical types, my focus gets very inward.

Here's a blog post he wrote on the topic: https://www.adamyounggolf.com/locus-of-foci/

It's long and detailed, but I've found him very helpful.

[chemclub]

9 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

I like this thinking and thought process. years ago I tried a system and coach called 'instinctive golf' which focused on the natural human knowledge we have if we wanted a ball to go left,right,high, low etc it was then about 'instinctively' putting it into practice. It was game changing within 24hrs then my inwardly focused demon crept back and kicked my butt for even looking at another 'new' system

Yeah, forget everything I said. Try swinging harder. 

Sometimes the easiest way to get into an outwardly focused mindset is to forget about all the perfect things you try to do in your swing set up and set up to the ball in a goofy way: stance is open, shut, feet together, on one foot! Then just try to hit the ball with a slice or a draw, whatever.

It gets you thinking about how you want to hit the ball and forgetting about swing mechanics because you have left your perfect little swing bubble behind and are just trying to make shots in a fun way. Shawn clement has a drill where you literally try to hit thin shots, try to hit topped shots.

[chemclub]

4 hours ago, Kor.A.Door said:

This is pretty much the issue I have on he putting green. I got withbour club pro and has me changing my focus. Instead of focusing on the swing, or on the putting stroke. We want to change the focus to making about the feel of the putt, by putting the focus on what I see while putting rather than how to putt. So there are some changes in my routine to do what you are saying, change from inward thinking,  (the process), to outward thinking (doing). It will take some time to be natural with it, but it seems I am on the right track. 

I spent years trying to make the perfect putting stroke. Spieth talked about doing the same thing as a problem in his putting so at least we are in good company.

Now, I just try to trace a line from the ball to the hole and starting the ball on that line. I don't know if I sink that many more putts but I definitely feel more relaxed over the ball and not racked by paralysis by analysis.

[Kenny B]

14 hours ago, chemclub said:

I spent years trying to make the perfect putting stroke. Spieth talked about doing the same thing as a problem in his putting so at least we are in good company.

Now, I just try to trace a line from the ball to the hole and starting the ball on that line. I don't know if I sink that many more putts but I definitely feel more relaxed over the ball and not racked by paralysis by analysis.

I just focus on getting the speed right.  That starts on the practice green.  Fortunately, our practice green speed is close to what the actual greens roll.  Unfortunately, our practice green is basically F L A T, and on the course the greens aren't.  It's one of the reasons I play a lot of practice rounds.

Not to add to your paralysis, but I always trace a line from the hole to the ball.  As the ball slows down, any break is amplified, so that will impact my starting line.  Either way will work if that's the way you are used to reading greens.  

[fixyurdivot]

I think that's exactly how I would approach it.  As I've stated in my "Are you content with your game" thread, several times during my golf life, I have had instruction that attempts to significantly change my swing and the results have not been fruitful.  This was when I was playing the most, had an 11 handicap, and was hot to get into single digits.  The changes just wrecked any consistency I had.  Entropy eventually takes over and I'm back to my natural mechanics/swing. The instructors were well known and qualified, so it was likely my inability to stay the course and practice enough to commit the swing changes to memory. 

What you are considering makes sense to me.  In fact, what I'd be inclined to do is simply have him work with me on one (maybe two) dimension of the game where I feel weakest - as opposed to "let's start from the beginning" on swing fundamentals.  Certainly they go hand in hand, but as a 6-8 handicap, there is no way in hell your swing mechanics can be that far off.  One fellow spies .02 cents worth.  Keep us posted on how this goes.