cnosil Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 54 minutes ago, RookieBlue7 said: So I’ve been doing a lot of reading and a lot of speaking with someone in the puttermaking world and now I’m questioning everything about shaft position as it relates to anything. I do now own one of their putters and it’s the only one I know of that squares itself regardless of stroke type. The question he’s also asked is who determined what shaft position fits what type of stroke as it’s all just the person manipulating the putter not the putter working better for a stroke type. Theres a LOT of intriguing info he’s been sharing and I’d love to see how their product would do in most wanted testing. They’ve said they’d submit for it but haven’t been asked. The problem with a putter that squares itself would be someone that doesn't need to putter "square" at impact. Can you provide more info about the puttermaker, would love to look at his thoughts. Also, If he wants to be in most wanted testing, he probably needs to contact Adam to ask to be in the testing; I am pretty sure he asks questions to make sure the manufacturer can support development if they do well in the testing,. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, cnosil said: The problem with a putter that squares itself would be someone that doesn't need to putter "square" at impact. Can you provide more info about the puttermaker, would love to look at his thoughts. Also, If he wants to be in most wanted testing, he probably needs to contact Adam to ask to be in the testing; I am pretty sure he asks questions to make sure the manufacturer can support development if they do well in the testing,. He’s a mad scientist and one of the top 3 players in the world is testing their product right now. They just got their tour credentials late last season. Their product works too. And they’ve got the development covered. He’s got a patent on the physics of how the putter works too I believe In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Sounds like the Axis putter to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 In the putter head... Because the shaft is necessary to be able to swing the club, that’s why.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanSterlingPrice Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I’m using the odyssey exo #7s and it’s a heel model but I’ve tried center shaftedmodels before. I’m an in to in mid arc putter and prefer how heel models release (or seem to at least) over center shafted models. That said the best putter I’ve ever known uses a center shafted model and won’t even touch heel shafted putters since he made the switch. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Right Handed 4.5 handicap Driver: Nike Vapor Flex with Mitsubishi Rayon Fubuki ZT60x5ct S-flex shaft and stock grip. 3-Metal: Nike VRS 15 degree with Mitsubishi Rayon tour issue Diamana S73x5ct X-flex shaft and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grip. Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46 degrees standard length and lie with KBS Tour-V stiff shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips. Wedges: Ben Hogan TK15 54, 58 degrees with KBS Tour-V X-flex shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips. Putter: Nike Method Converge B1|01 with Superstroke Flatso 2.0 grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 He’s a mad scientist and one of the top 3 players in the world is testing their product right now. They just got their tour credentials late last season. Their product works too. And they’ve got the development covered. He’s got a patent on the physics of how the putter works too I believe So you aren’t going to tell us the name if the product. . I think most putters work and a player can putt well with most any putter. The bigger question is how does it work for the player when the are in a pressure situation. Top 3 would be Kopeka, rose, and DJ. Rose is the most likely if that group to experiment with other brands. Axis is in the bag based on pictures. If it isn’t axis, the big question is will it end up in the bag and if so, for how long? Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perseveringgolfer Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 15 hours ago, RookieBlue7 said: So I’ve been doing a lot of reading and a lot of speaking with someone in the puttermaking world and now I’m questioning everything about shaft position as it relates to anything. I do now own one of their putters and it’s the only one I know of that squares itself regardless of stroke type. The question he’s also asked is who determined what shaft position fits what type of stroke as it’s all just the person manipulating the putter not the putter working better for a stroke type. Theres a LOT of intriguing info he’s been sharing and I’d love to see how their product would do in most wanted testing. They’ve said they’d submit for it but haven’t been asked. As I have a strong arc and an out to in stroke (according to SAMM putt lab) this would be a major help. Can't figure out how this can be achieved, but I suppose that's why he's invented it and not me. Look forward to hearing more detail if you're allowed to divulge more? *edit* I can figure out how, a mini gyroscope in the club, but that would mean moving parts and prob illegal. Driver Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs) 4 Wood Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+ Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex Hybrid Titleist 910H 19* Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S' Irons Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S' Wedges Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54* KBS Tour in 'R' Putter 'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 As I have a strong arc and an out to in stroke (according to SAMM putt lab) this would be a major help. Can't figure out how this can be achieved, but I suppose that's why he's invented it and not me.From what I have been taught an out to in stroke (which is what I have)requires the putter to be open to the path at impact to start the ball online. Roughly 85% of the balls direction is controlled by face angle, but the other 15% is path. So you out to in does pull the ball a bit so an open face at impact moves it back into the target line. So while the putter maintains square to what I am assuming the putters path unless you have a putter path that requires square at impact it may not help you. Seemore putters are designed this way as well. Their success is based on you changing your setup to have a perfect putter path and needing the face square at impact. Not saying that changing how you putt can’t be changed. People change their swings and how they putt all the time. the question is whether it is better to change the mechanics and setup or to fit to the mechanics and setup. That is a player/coach/instructor discussion. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 hours ago, cnosil said: So you aren’t going to tell us the name if the product. . I think most putters work and a player can putt well with most any putter. The bigger question is how does it work for the player when the are in a pressure situation. Top 3 would be Kopeka, rose, and DJ. Rose is the most likely if that group to experiment with other brands. Axis is in the bag based on pictures. If it isn’t axis, the big question is will it end up in the bag and if so, for how long? It’s not an Axis. The putter is the former product known as the Directed Force putter. They’re now known as L.A.B Golf (Lie Angle Balance is what that stands for). And I’m not one to speak for Bill but I do have one of his putters and while it’s not the prettiest thing out there, it flat out works. Their revealer tester also works and will show you what any putter out there is doing throughout the stroke. I’d love to see it in most wanted testing. I’d bet it’d do very well. Only thing that might make it not do well is the putter being properly fitted is important. Their Press grip also works very well. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, RookieBlue7 said: It’s not an Axis. The putter is the former product known as the Directed Force putter. They’re now known as L.A.B Golf (Lie Angle Balance is what that stands for). And I’m not one to speak for Bill but I do have one of his putters and while it’s not the prettiest thing out there, it flat out works. Their revealer tester also works and will show you what any putter out there is doing throughout the stroke. I’d love to see it in most wanted testing. I’d bet it’d do very well. Only thing that might make it not do well is the putter being properly fitted is important. Their Press grip also works very well. It will be part of most wanted testing this year. Adam announced that on during the MGS raffle. I tried one a few weeks ago when I was doing an MGS test on the stability shaft. Personally not a believer in what the revealer test shows but the putter doesn't seem too bad. Will try and get a better perspective during the actual putter testing and when I am there for other tests. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 42 minutes ago, cnosil said: It will be part of most wanted testing this year. Adam announced that on during the MGS raffle. I tried one a few weeks ago when I was doing an MGS test on the stability shaft. Personally not a believer in what the revealer test shows but the putter doesn't seem too bad. Will try and get a better perspective during the actual putter testing and when I am there for other tests. Hopefully they’ll be doing some types of fittings (which Bill does for free via video) for them as that’s very important with this putter. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, RookieBlue7 said: Hopefully they’ll be doing some types of fittings (which Bill does for free via video) for them as that’s very important with this putter. Don't know what the expectation is with the putter. Generally they treat it as if you purchased off the rack, but they have been told by some manufacturers to explain to us how to use the putter. I think fittings will be difficult since there are about 20 testers. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 I’m betting Bill would be willing to do it. He needs a short video clip and can tell you what the lie angle and length needed are from the video. He’d probably send several lie angles and give advice on which one each tester would need to use. Takes him about 45 seconds to do from a video In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, RookieBlue7 said: I’m betting Bill would be willing to do it. He needs a short video clip and can tell you what the lie angle and length needed are from the video. He’d probably send several lie angles and give advice on which one each tester would need to use. Takes him about 45 seconds to do from a video Obviously not something I control. When I was there, today, there were multiple directed force putters ready for testing, Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver & black Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 10/25/2018 at 4:06 PM, GolfSpy Stroker said: This MGS or WRX?? I'm outta here... Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk Wow. A polite discussion sent you packing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixyurdivot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Great question. I'll need to go look at my B61 to know for sure. I've been playing it for nearly 30 years now and honestly don't know. G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Evnroll ER5v Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 7:53 PM, cnosil said: Obviously not something I control. When I was there, today, there were multiple directed force putters ready for testing, Oh wasn’t implying you controlled anything. I hope he can get a few of his brand new, announced and revealed today blades in the testing too. They officially drop Feb 1 and he’ll have them at the PGA show. I can’t wait to try to get my hands on one of those. It’s about the width of the seemore but packed full of tech. I think even more folks will love it cause it’s traditional sized but has LAB tech (company is no longer directed force, it’s now L.A.B Golf). I have a feeling their stuff will do well kn testing. Tech filled putters usually tend to do well in the msg testing In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, RookieBlue7 said: Oh wasn’t implying you controlled anything. I hope he can get a few of his brand new, announced and revealed today blades in the testing too. They officially drop Feb 1 and he’ll have them at the PGA show. I can’t wait to try to get my hands on one of those. It’s about the width of the seemore but packed full of tech. I think even more folks will love it cause it’s traditional sized but has LAB tech (company is no longer directed force, it’s now L.A.B Golf). I have a feeling their stuff will do well kn testing. Tech filled putters usually tend to do well in the msg testing spent some time putting with one today. It rolls the ball well but it takes some time to get used to it. I play the ball forward, but with this putter it seems way forward. The angled grip is a bit interesting too. I didn't see any of the blade putters in the group of putters, but maybe they haven't all come in. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, cnosil said: spent some time putting with one today. It rolls the ball well but it takes some time to get used to it. I play the ball forward, but with this putter it seems way forward. The angled grip is a bit interesting too. I didn't see any of the blade putters in the group of putters, but maybe they haven't all come in. He hasn’t sent any blades he said he was trying to get them in. He literally just got them built and ready and previewed them a few hours ago. And the original does have to be played forward of where one normally plays the ball. The press grip is to get the hands into the correct position. You can put a normal grip on them just bill needs to know so he can build it appropriately. It’s not something one would pick up on eBay and work right immediately, honestly and needs to be fitted right. He’s also got a new v2 press grip he revealed with the blade today as well that’s more round In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, RookieBlue7 said: He hasn’t sent any blades he said he was trying to get them in. He literally just got them built and ready and previewed them a few hours ago. And the original does have to be played forward of where one normally plays the ball. The press grip is to get the hands into the correct position. You can put a normal grip on them just bill needs to know so he can build it appropriately. It’s not something one would pick up on eBay and work right immediately, honestly and needs to be fitted right. He’s also got a new v2 press grip he revealed with the blade today as well that’s more round I saw the pictures of the blade today. As others have said, reminds me of a SeeMore. The grip wasn't bad, but the angle kind of threw me off when I was first setting up. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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