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Removing the middleman


bens197

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I am a big Hogan / Vice golf fan.  They make up my bag and a lot of it has to do with not just the quality of the product but the price offerings.  Which brings me to this topic.  In my rarely found free time, I was looking through Cleveland golf's site and pricing out a new 52* RTX4 and a Huntington Beach Soft 11 putter...that putter is mint BTW...

What surprised me was I could actually customize and purchase direct from the website.  Pretty cool right?  So I started looking around to see who else offers this factory direct product...

Taylor Made and Callaway each have a shopping cart to purchase clubs.

Cool idea, factory direct and you get what you want straight from the cow.  But what about that markup?  

I am not paying a retailer to sell me or fit me.  How is this affecting the mom and pop shops who rely on their brick and mortar shops to not only provide a service but to turn a profit.

 

Maybe this model is not as far reaching as I would have imagined but it seemed sort of silly to pay full markup when I am ordering directly from the manufacturer.

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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I am a big Hogan / Vice golf fan.  They make up my bag and a lot of it has to do with not just the quality of the product but the price offerings.  Which brings me to this topic.  In my rarely found free time, I was looking through Cleveland golf's site and pricing out a new 52* RTX4 and a Huntington Beach Soft 11 putter...that putter is mint BTW...
What surprised me was I could actually customize and purchase direct from the website.  Pretty cool right?  So I started looking around to see who else offers this factory direct product...
Taylor Made and Callaway each have a shopping cart to purchase clubs.
Cool idea, factory direct and you get what you want straight from the cow.  But what about that markup?  
I am not paying a retailer to sell me or fit me.  How is this affecting the mom and pop shops who rely on their brick and mortar shops to not only provide a service but to turn a profit.
 
Maybe this model is not as far reaching as I would have imagined but it seemed sort of silly to pay full markup when I am ordering directly from the manufacturer.

Are the prices that different? Generally when manufacturers compete the with their retailers they use the same price point.


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Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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The prices on the OEM site are MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) which is the same most retailers pay. If they charged less than retail, well you can imagine the uproar from shops. They already don’t like that they sell direct.

Both above reason in addition to product cycles, that you see so many shops loyal to PING, Titleist and Mizuno.


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:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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OEM's selling direct to consumer is just a way for them to make a higher margin.  What the company does with that margin is the difference between a Snell, Vice, Hogan vs Taylormade, Cally, Cobra etc.

Some pass that savings on to the consumer.  Usually the smaller brands who need that lower price point to drive sales.  The big boys take that extra margin and put it straight to the bottom line.  They can't discount because as Rob said it would kill their retail partners.  Nobody would shop at PGASS, Dicks or Golf Galaxy for an M3 if you could buy it straight from taylormade.com for $50 less.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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Are the prices that different? Generally when manufacturers compete the with their retailers they use the same price point.


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They’re exactly the same.


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  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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Both above reason in addition to product cycles, that you see so many shops loyal to PING, Titleist and Mizuno.


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100% agree with that statement.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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OEM's selling direct to consumer is just a way for them to make a higher margin. 


Absolutely. I think we’re going to call it Business 101.

I was interested if there was an ethical discussion that would ensue.

The opportunity for some customers to purchase direct who know exactly what they want (myself included) is really appealing.

I’m interested to read if there is anyone vehemently against this method.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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OEM's selling direct to consumer is just a way for them to make a higher margin. 


Absolutely. I think we’re going to call it Business 101.

I was interested if there was an ethical discussion that would ensue.

The opportunity for some customers to purchase direct who know exactly what they want (myself included) is really appealing.

I’m interested to read if there is anyone vehemently against this method.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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I'm only guessing, but I imagine that there's an agreement between the major OEMs and the retailers.  The retailers aren't allowed to sell below a specific price, and in return, the OEM's also promise to maintain that specific minimum price.  Its in both parties' interest to maintain prices.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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Although I’m not in the golf business my company sells direct online and thru distributors. Yes, we make a higher margins selling direct but prefer to push customers thru distribution to support them as they do us. We also see some people just prefer to buy direct regardless of price. They often think they will get better support which is not the case.

We set a minimum sell price to protect brick and mortar locations from the online guys who have much lower overhead otherwise the online guys will sell at single digit margins and be happy.

I can provide much more detail but I’m about to land and lose internet.


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Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5

:cleveland-small: - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid

:cobra-small: - F9 One Length 3-L

:EVNROLL: - ER 1.2

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Play Right

 

 

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I'm only guessing, but I imagine that there's an agreement between the major OEMs and the retailers.  The retailers aren't allowed to sell below a specific price, and in return, the OEM's also promise to maintain that specific minimum price.  Its in both parties' interest to maintain prices.

 

You’re exactly right, It’s called Minimum Advertised Price (MAP).

 

PING and Titleist are ineligible for coupon discounts or even free shipping promotions. Go to any online retailer and try entering a coupon code for either of these companies.

 

PING is so strict that they’ve been known to pull their product from retailers who break this rule.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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1 hour ago, Middler said:

The price of a Titleist or other big name retail balls includes materials & production, shipping/distribution, retail support, endorsements, governing body support, more people-wages and margins. Direct to consumer only ball manufacturers typically have lower shipping/distribution costs, little or no retail support and little or no endorsements. I don’t know if direct only ball makers pay governing body support like PGA, USGA but I imagine they do at some level. As others have noted, Titleist and the other full retail ballmakers can’t pass on retail support cost savings to direct buyers, they’d lose their retail channel if they undercut them on price. The big savings Vice, Snell and others can pass on to consumers come from lower distribution costs, little or no retail support costs AND little to no endorsement costs.

Ok, let’s take the ball for instance. It does not cost Titleist any where near 50 a dozen to provide the prov1 to the consumer, even after all of the distobution and marketing, and all of that. They price that ball at the price because they can, not because of the cost to produce. 

Snell on the other hand has produce a great ball at a very low cost to him. He has chosen not to mark up the cost of the ball, therefore, he is passing on the savings to the consumer, he could sell his ball for 50 a dozen as well, but it won’t sell at that price, he has priced his golf ball at a point where he can make the most profit. If he raises the price, then he doesn’t have a different product than the big OEM. Why would I buy Snell at 45 when I can get the prov1 for 50. 

Vice per dozen price isn’t really that great, but they have made the decision to try to make more by selling in bulk and offering a huge discount for buying multiple dozens. So if I buy one dozen it costs me 35 if I by 6 dozen, it cost me 24 per. That’s a big difference and markup. That just tells me their cost to make them is also very low, but they want you to buy large quantities instead of one at a time. 

Both business models work for the companies that sell golf balls, for me, it just gives me the choice to pay for the big OEM product, or the smaller company which is just as good. It’s about what I, the consumer will do. 

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

Callaway, Ping, Taylormade...they sell direct with the SAME price you pay at Golf Stores...they are making extra money off you as they do not have to sell that club to the Golf Store at 20 to 35% less then you pay them.....Now Hogan is direct as no Golf Stores carry their product....so who know what their retail price would really be.....what is a joke is all these OEMs control the prices in all the big golf retailers.....that is why that new Callaway, Taylormade driver is $549 in every store....years ago the government stopped this kind of fair trade merchandising, but using a small worm hole in the law all these companies control product retail prices because of the Patents on their products 

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Callaway, Ping, Taylormade...they sell direct with the SAME price you pay at Golf Stores...they are making extra money off you as they do not have to sell that club to the Golf Store at 20 to 35% less then you pay them.....Now Hogan is direct as no Golf Stores carry their product....so who know what their retail price would really be.....what is a joke is all these OEMs control the prices in all the big golf retailers.....that is why that new Callaway, Taylormade driver is $549 in every store....years ago the government stopped this kind of fair trade merchandising, but using a small worm hole in the law all these companies control product retail prices because of the Patents on their products 

That's why I like waiting 9 months to a year after introduction. Doesn't matter whether it's shoes, shirts or clubs, they're all heavily discounted


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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I can buy cheaper than direct, so it’s not worth it. I did buy my Srixon irons from a local shop JUST because I knew the rep and I wanted him to get credit for the sale. That’s one area that it’s hard not to buy local, because my rep here won’t get credit. As a sales rep making a living off sales, that would tick me off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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The mom and pop stores are still taking a hit.  They are not buying say a new M6 from Taylor Made for the same as say Golf Galaxy.  Golf Galaxy buys thousands of M6 drivers for their stores across the US, so they get a better price point from Taylor Made.  A mom and pop may only carry 10 for the year so they are not making the same margins as everyone else.  The mom and pop try to stay afloat via service and customer loyalty/relationships.  I used to own a retail sporting goods store and it is very difficult to compete against big box and online retailers.  

   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: image.png.cf6ab25979c6727ff31e6cc6f719636c.png TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex

     Irons:  :callaway-small: 5-7  Apex forged 19 w/ Modus 120 X

                         9-A Apex Pro 19 w/ Modus 120 X

Wedges:  :callaway-small: MD5 52&56 Jaws Dynamic Gold wedge flex

    Putter: :titelist-small: Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5 34"

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