What would be an ideal backswing

[Big money]

Been reading on here about numerous posts focusing on impact. And even read a few where they said a proper backswing doesn’t matter. In my opinon (and my teachers) the backswing is the most crucial for a good swing. What are some of your personal checkpoint s for nailing a great backswing. And per my teacher, this is the one area of the motion that we have total control of. The impact of the swing just happens and isn’t a forced objective. A solid backswing makes a solid impact easier to obtain 

thoughts 

[null]

I wouldn't worry about the backswing unless you are having trouble with consistent impact that can be traced back to issues in the back swing.

[RickyBobby_PR]

There are so many unique backswings that focusing on that area imo isn’t as important as proper pressure transfer, shallowing the club and getting the club square at impact and releasing the club post impact. 

[cnosil]

I think what most people are saying is that there isn't such a thing as a perfect backswing not that it isn't important.  It is part of how you as a player sequence your swing and gets you in position at the top.  If you watch most swings that people criticize the backswing you will find that if you only looked at the swing from teh top down,  that all swings start to look the same.  I think angle of attack , shaft lean, path of the downswing are probably more important than how perfect of a backswing someone has.  

[jayjay0808]

I am going to agree with most in this topic so far. The backswing does not determine the result of the swing. Impact is the main factor for ball flight. If you look on tour Rickie Fowler has a unique backswing in comparison to what the ideal would look like and he works with one of the best coaches on tour, Butch. Butch has not tried to change Rickie's unique move but more so refine it. Look at the past two years in the NCAA, Matthew Wolff, he looks to be one of the next big talents out of college. He has one of the most unique backswings I have ever seen and absolutely stripes it.

[Gg Owen]

First, your pro knows you and your swing.Stick with what he has told you 

second, the backswing is an absolutely vital part for a properly sequences effective swing.Some of my guidelines have been loading fully,lead shoulder lower than back shoulder,Clubface matching left forearm,handle of club pointing behind heel of back foot,left front knee folded in.From there the forces just unwind into the ball.And trying to manipulate an impact position is completely futile.Only time I focus on impact only is a punch shot or off of a tight lie.The rest of time I just let it happen

[GolfSpy_BNG]

As others have said focusing on a perfect backswing may not be the most important thing to all golfers.  If focusing on it gets you into the correct position and helps you with your sequencing then great but for me the only time I focus on my backswing is when I am trying to play a big draw or fade.  But remember than no one here has seen your swing.

[Big money]

I’ve been a big follower of Jack Nicklaus since the day I started playing.In his prime, he always stressed being properly coiled in the backswing.So you can spring into the ball like a cat.Ive always followed his advice since he was-and may always be the most successful golfer ever.My swing may not produce Nicklaus level shots.But it is almost a carbon copy in many positions of the ultimate of golf.Cant go wrong listening closely with his philosophies 

[bens197]

I wish wish wish that the focus on the backswing was related to the down the line view, not the face on.

The width and length are not as critical as your plane and path. Jon Rahm, David Duval and DL3. Three different body types and three completely different backswings.

Three awesome results.

Let your coach help you find what works best with your body and athleticism. But above all, please focus that attention on your down the line swing, don’t be concerned about crossing parallel.


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[GB13]

The backswing can be used to get into the proper position to start the downswing. But even with a perfect backswing, you can still have a terrible downswing and produce terrible results. As always, if it works for you to have a bad backswing, do it. If it works, it doesn't matter what it looks like. 

[EthanSterlingPrice]

If the ball could be hit without the backswing I’d do it. As long as it’s repeatable and you’re at a decent spot at the top then the backswing is negligible. Can a good simple backswing help? Yes, but you don’t hit the ball going back.

Having said that my thought is “hit the slot” at the top of my backswing.


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[perseveringgolfer]

10 hours ago, Edveed said:

Been reading on here about numerous posts focusing on impact. And even read a few where they said a proper backswing doesn’t matter. In my opinon (and my teachers) the backswing is the most crucial for a good swing. What are some of your personal checkpoint s for nailing a great backswing. And per my teacher, this is the one area of the motion that we have total control of. The impact of the swing just happens and isn’t a forced objective. A solid backswing makes a solid impact easier to obtain 

thoughts 

Most backswings are unique to each person and their physical ability. The transition and impact are more important in my opinion.

Heres a post from last week on a very different backswing from a college player who's just won 3 tournaments in a row.

 

[srooch2]

I was worried about the back swing being perfect but realized I was doing many other things wrong that made that aspect irrelevant. I started covering the ball, focusing on a solid turn through impact and a good rhythm and tempo. Now I can't tell you what's going on back there but I'm hitting the ball wonderfully now. I can work on fine tuning the back swing when I nail down the other aspects of my swing. In other words, I think it's important but depends on where you are in your game/swing.

 

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[Big money]

Listen and listen only what your teacher says.Its fun getting other “Opinions” on here;However, your paying for a service of getting better at golf.Utilize his information, that is what he is there for 

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, Edveed said:

Been reading on here about numerous posts focusing on impact. And even read a few where they said a proper backswing doesn’t matter. In my opinon (and my teachers) the backswing is the most crucial for a good swing. What are some of your personal checkpoint s for nailing a great backswing. And per my teacher, this is the one area of the motion that we have total control of. The impact of the swing just happens and isn’t a forced objective. A solid backswing makes a solid impact easier to obtain 

thoughts 

I think if you look at a large number of really good players, you'd see a wide variations in backswings, but almost all would have very similar impact positions.  In my opinion, the ideal backswing puts you in a position at the top of the swing that allows you to swing forward with the minimum of compensations.  The route you take to get to that position can vary quite a bit, but most of us have a pretty small range of "top of backswing" position that really work well.  Of course, changing something early in the backswing can result in subconscious changes to other parts of the swing, so that you may be able to fine-tune impact by tweaking the backswing.   

Hideki Matsuyama is an interesting example.  He comes to a basically still position at the end of his backswing.  He might be able to simply set up there, eliminating the entire backswing, and still make a really good forward swing.  

I think your pro is probably doing a very positive thing, by concentrating on your backswing.  If you can find a way to go back, and get to a consistently good position, your forward swing can be much simpler.  But the backswing is a stage-setter, not the star of the show. 

So what is my personal checkpoint on the backswing?  Proper shoulder turn, stable head, weight to the inside of my right foot and ready to move forward, all at the top of the backswing.  I don't really think at all about the route I took to get there.

[PlaidJacket]

40 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

So what is my personal checkpoint on the backswing?  Proper shoulder turn, stable head, weight to the inside of my right foot and ready to move forward, all at the top of the backswing.  I don't really think at all about the route I took to get there.

Couldn't have said it better. And I would emphasize Shoulder Turn. When I play badly on a given day I can usually attribute it to being Lazy and and not making a good shoulder turn. And that might only entail extra inch!! But if I don't rotate my shoulders well; thereby getting into arm swinging... I'm a dead man.

[RickyBobby_PR]

48 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I think if you look at a large number of really good players, you'd see a wide variations in backswings, but almost all would have very similar impact positions.  In my opinion, the ideal backswing puts you in a position at the top of the swing that allows you to swing forward with the minimum of compensations.  The route you take to get to that position can vary quite a bit, but most of us have a pretty small range of "top of backswing" position that really work well.  Of course, changing something early in the backswing can result in subconscious changes to other parts of the swing, so that you may be able to fine-tune impact by tweaking the backswing.   

Hideki Matsuyama is an interesting example.  He comes to a basically still position at the end of his backswing.  He might be able to simply set up there, eliminating the entire backswing, and still make a really good forward swing.  

I think your pro is probably doing a very positive thing, by concentrating on your backswing.  If you can find a way to go back, and get to a consistently good position, your forward swing can be much simpler.  But the backswing is a stage-setter, not the star of the show. 

So what is my personal checkpoint on the backswing?  Proper shoulder turn, stable head, weight to the inside of my right foot and ready to move forward, all at the top of the backswing.  I don't really think at all about the route I took to get there.

Can you describe stable head? Curious about this compared to some recent thoughts/teaching about the head.

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Can you describe stable head? Curious about this compared to some recent thoughts/teaching about the head.

By stable, I mean it doesn't move a lot.  I dislike the image of a rigid fixed position, but I believe that if your head moves a lot, you'll be less consistent with contact.  A little bit of up and down is pretty common, even with good players, but you see very little lateral movement of the head for those good players.  A LOT of up and down would indicate , to me, excessive flex/extension of the knees.  A lot of lateral motion would indicate a sway, or reverse-pivot.  My image of a good swing is one that revolves around your spine.  Hips turn on an inclined plane, your body rotates around an inclined axis (spine), your shoulders rotate around your spine, while the spine (and your head on top) remain pretty stable.  

[PlaidJacket]

Dave... when I think of a stable head that usually translates a sway with me. When my head is (fairly) stable i'm staying over the ball well and covering the ball.

[alfriday101]

I like for my head to stay "centered."    

[DaveP043]

12 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

Dave... when I think of a stable head that usually translates a sway with me. When my head is (fairly) stable i'm staying over the ball well and covering the ball.

I think the sway away from the target is most common, but I've seen people whose head actually moves towards the target.  I like @alfriday101's image of "centered", and the same for the hip rotation, remaining centered.

[Canucklehead]

My personal checkpoints are making a good hip turn, don't be too flat (a bad habit when I start to get tired) and keep my head from pointing down too much.

I can't say much more than the fantastic points that have already been brought up by others, but if you and your coach are making progress I'd follow his plan!

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[RickyBobby_PR]

22 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

By stable, I mean it doesn't move a lot.  I dislike the image of a rigid fixed position, but I believe that if your head moves a lot, you'll be less consistent with contact.  A little bit of up and down is pretty common, even with good players, but you see very little lateral movement of the head for those good players.  A LOT of up and down would indicate , to me, excessive flex/extension of the knees.  A lot of lateral motion would indicate a sway, or reverse-pivot.  My image of a good swing is one that revolves around your spine.  Hips turn on an inclined plane, your body rotates around an inclined axis (spine), your shoulders rotate around your spine, while the spine (and your head on top) remain pretty stable.  

Thanks. I agree with your thoughts on what it means and wanted to make sure it was to keeep it still. Not sure if you watch amg but they talk about the head going up and down. 

While it’s not considered lateral movement there are several out there talking about and teaching head rotating in the transition/downswing to help get more open at impact especially for Gide sho don’t get proper hip/torso rotation. I think GG is on the far end of the amount of rotation

[DaveP043]

25 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Thanks. I agree with your thoughts on what it means and wanted to make sure it was to keeep it still. Not sure if you watch amg but they talk about the head going up and down. 

While it’s not considered lateral movement there are several out there talking about and teaching head rotating in the transition/downswing to help get more open at impact especially for Gide sho don’t get proper hip/torso rotation. I think GG is on the far end of the amount of rotation

I watch as little online "generic" instruction as I can.  By "generic" I mean those instructors who are just sending it out there for anyone to use, as opposed to instructions for a single player based on that player's video.  I'm pretty sure that way over 99% of us do NOT have the skills to diagnose the root cause for our swing faults, so I'm not a believer in searching through the internet for specific tips that will help to fix a problem when I've probably mis-diagnosed the cause.  With the wide range of philosophies, and the often contradictory advice to cure any specific fault, using that type of instruction is more likely to CAUSE a problem than it is to fix one.

That's all horribly off-topic.  I believe a steady head is important, because your eyes are your reference point for understanding where the ball is.  If your reference point, your eyes, is moving around, that makes it much harder to hit the ball consistently.  Watch baseball players, hockey players, football receivers.  The most successful generally have a still head (for baseball), or a head that remains pretty level (when they're running or skating).

 

[Har in the Hat]

I have always been told by my many instructors that what happens in the first move in the backswing dictates how well the rest will be.

I believe this so true. I know that with a very slow takeaway with the upper body moving as one, the rest just follows.

and I have also hurried up the start of the back swing and have had disastrous results.  

my thoughts anyways

 

[Wildthing]

Your head moving up and down is quite natural depending on how you pivot.  When I swing in 'perpetuity'  with an external focus on throwing my clubface to a target or through an intermediate target , or 'cut dandelions' with the edge of the face, my head bobs up and down quite a bit . I never used to allow that for the first 25 years of playing golf due to some pre-conceived notion about mechanics of the golf swing (ie. got to keep the centre of the swing stable). Guess what ,  the research findings state there is no stable center of the golf swing , it moves all over the place (and a lot of the time it's moving outside of the perimeters of your body) based on various complex movements. Although the shoulder socket does become the center of the swing close to impact if you have any semblance of secondary tilt.

Check out this old Shawn Clement video because it changed my whole perception of the golf swing and imho I've been playing my best 'fearless'  strain-free recreational golf in the last 30 years .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn8CmDNi0UM

 

 

 

 

[PMookie]

I just want Adam Scott’s swing. Cameron Champ’s would work too!!!!

Basically, we need one that’s on-plane!!!


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[GolfSpy_BNG]

19 minutes ago, PMookie said:

I just want Adam Scott’s swing. Cameron Champ’s would work too!!!!

Basically, we need one that’s on-plane!!!


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I wouldn't mind a year or two of Tiger's 1999-2005 swing!

[PMookie]

I wouldn't mind a year or two of Tiger's 1999-2005 swing!

Heck yeah!!!!!


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