Technique for short pitches on soft ground

[cnosil]

Biggest problem for me is hitting those 10-70 yard partial wedge shots when the ground is wet.  Typically I hit down on the ball trying to use the bounce like a bunker shot to make sure I get under the ball. Now that the ground is starting to remain a bit wetter I am going right under the ball and getting no distance.

How do you approach this distance?

[Mr. 82]

Mid to high bounce lob wedge is a good start. Low bounce is harder because it’ll cut through the mush like a knife.


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[PMookie]

My wedges have very little bounce, so I close the face a bit, aim a little more to the right, and I don’t try to cut under the ball, I play it more off the toe, club a little more upright. This makes sure I’m not fat, nor will I go under it.


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[cnosil]

30 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Mid to high bounce lob wedge is a good start. Low bounce is harder because it’ll cut through the mush like a knife.


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Should have said,  my 54 has 14* and my 58 has 12*.   

[Mr. 82]

Should have said,  my 54 has 14* and my 58 has 12*.   

Well nevermind then. You are already there.

It’s a delicate shot. I can tell you when I played at a tournament with extremely wet conditions you had to be extremely precise on all iron shots. My method under those type of conditions is to try and hit ball first and make solid contact.

I will tell you that in that tournament I shot 83, and won the gross flight. There were a lot of scores in the high 80s and 90s for that very reason. Mushy, mud pit fairways are extremely hard to score from.


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[srooch2]

Following, have had several instances like this. My grinds are somewhat aggressive which I "feel" makes the problem worse. That's from my own detective work on my game so take it with a grain of salt.

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[GB13]

I'd use an 8 iron with a much shorter swing so you don't have the variance of a harder swing with a wedge. If it is very wet, the greens are probably pretty soft so stopping the 8 iron shouldn't be too big of a problem. It really take the pressure off striking the ball perfectly with a wedge. 

[TBT]

For soft conditions I have a 58* vokey K grind with 14* of bounce...the k grind is really nice for this type shots


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[cnosil]

This has me so frustrated I actually sought out internet video advice on YouTube. Basic assessment seems to be that it is hard and to swing harder or take a lower lofted club to make solid contact.

[RickyBobby_PR]

I avoid hitting down on wet grass with chip/pitches. I try not to take divots with these shots regardless of wet or dry. The closer to the green the less loft I use and as I move away I use bigger swings with ball middle to forward in the stance.

I am a fan of Andrew Rice. He has done good YouTube and social media videos talking about wedge play

[azstu324]

I'm assuming you're talking about the actual ground and not the grass correct? When the ground under the grass is wet and muddish (could be a word), I don't think that hitting down at the ball is a bad thing. A few others made comments about lower lofted clubs which does work and I'll use a 9i if I'm trying to bump and run across a long green. When the pin's closer and I want more control, I've always had success with a de-lofted 60* or 56*. 

Unlike a bunker shot, I'll stand up a little taller with my feet closer together (inside my shoulders) and place the ball inside my rear heel. 90% of the weight on your front foot. Apply the hinge and hold technique ala Phil Mickelson. Hinge the wrists to create the back swing and then lead with the butt end of the club to keep your hands in front of your body. Very light grip as you want to feel the heft of the club doing the work. ALWAYS be sure and connect with the ball first and taking a chunky divot after the ball is in the air isn't going to hurt you. Even though the ball won't go way up in the air, it will check up as you're creating extra spin and is a very controllable shot. 

This video is such a fundamental for the short game. Cheers!

 

[Kenny B]

I very rarely play in those conditions.  Turf around here is firm and dry.  If it wet just after a rain or when the sprinklers have been on all night, the grass is wet but the turf isn't soggy.  I usually play a low shot into most all greens, only using a high wedge shot when I have to.  I will play ala Steve Stricker with very little wrist set; a little more when longer distance though.

It seems to me that when feet are close together; weight on forward leg; ball just inside back foot; club fairly neutral; and minimal wrist set, there is not much to go wrong.  Club is shallow going through the ball, and distance is controlled by how big the swing is.  That's my usual technique.  Will that be a problem in wet conditions??

I know many of you guys back east play in these condition a lot, and I am following your techniques because when I travel, I do run into wet turf and I'm never sure about how to play that shot.  

 

[perseveringgolfer]

I'm a believer in if you have good contact i.e hit the ball first it doesn't matter if it's wet, dry, soggy etc

The conditions mess with your head more than the contact 

[cnosil]

I'm a believer in if you have good contact i.e hit the ball first it doesn't matter if it's wet, dry, soggy etc

I very rarely play in those conditions.  Turf around here is firm and dry.  .
It seems to me that when feet are close together; weight on forward leg; ball just inside back foot; club fairly neutral; and minimal wrist set, there is not much to go wrong.  Club is shallow going through the ball, and distance is controlled by how big the swing is.  
 

I'm assuming you're talking about the actual ground and not the grass correct? When the ground under the grass is wet and muddish (could be a word), I don't think that hitting down at the ball is a bad thing.
Unlike a bunker shot, I'll stand up a little taller with my feet closer together (inside my shoulders) and place the ball inside my rear heel.
ALWAYS be sure and connect with the ball first and taking a chunky divot after the ball is in the air isn't going to hurt you. 

The wet is the ground/dirt; just how fall/winter golf is where I play. Grass is usually pretty bare because the Bermuda goes dormant.

I guess I need to move the ball back. I typically play middle to forward and slide under, more bunker shot like. When I move too far back I start to hit it fat.
Sounds like I am trying the right things, just need more practice....or for the Bermuda to come back so the lies are a bit fluffier.

[azstu324]

21 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

 

 

The wet is the ground/dirt; just how fall/winter golf is where I play. Grass is usually pretty bare because the Bermuda goes dormant.

I guess I need to move the ball back. I typically play middle to forward and slide under, more bunker shot like. When I move too far back I start to hit it fat.
Sounds like I am trying the right things, just need more practice....or for the Bermuda to come back so the lies are a bit fluffier.

 

 

 

So it looks like a pretty good field sample of similar advice/practices. Keep us all posted if you have any breakthroughs that seem to work. 

I think that a big key is no matter what position the ball's in, keep most of the weight on your front foot. Even more so if you play the ball further forward. 

[tony@CIC]

3 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I'm assuming you're talking about the actual ground and not the grass correct? When the ground under the grass is wet and muddish (could be a word), I don't think that hitting down at the ball is a bad thing. A few others made comments about lower lofted clubs which does work and I'll use a 9i if I'm trying to bump and run across a long green. When the pin's closer and I want more control, I've always had success with a de-lofted 60* or 56*. 

Unlike a bunker shot, I'll stand up a little taller with my feet closer together (inside my shoulders) and place the ball inside my rear heel. 90% of the weight on your front foot. Apply the hinge and hold technique ala Phil Mickelson. Hinge the wrists to create the back swing and then lead with the butt end of the club to keep your hands in front of your body. Very light grip as you want to feel the heft of the club doing the work. ALWAYS be sure and connect with the ball first and taking a chunky divot after the ball is in the air isn't going to hurt you. Even though the ball won't go way up in the air, it will check up as you're creating extra spin and is a very controllable shot. 

This video is such a fundamental for the short game. Cheers!

 

Thanks for the video. I had the same issue/question that cnosil described the last couple of weeks of our season. they say a picture is worth a thousand words - in this case a video. It was a simple and easy to understand tutorial on chipping.  

[azstu324]

6 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Thanks for the video. I had the same issue/question that cnosil described the last couple of weeks of our season. they say a picture is worth a thousand words - in this case a video. It was simple and easy tutorial on chipping.  

and it's PM.. I don't think that anybody can argue his status in the short-game world. 

As simple as this is, it's helped me tremendously! 

[tony@CIC]

2 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

and it's PM.. I don't think that anybody can argue his status in the short-game world. 

As simple as this is, it's helped me tremendously! 

An even bigger plus - he's a lefty so I don't have to reconstruct the technique. 

[Kenny B]

8 hours ago, azstu324 said:

and it's PM.. I don't think that anybody can argue his status in the short-game world. 

As simple as this is, it's helped me tremendously! 

Phil is definitely one of the best.  He has a multitude of amazing shots, but he practices a lot more than most of us.  As I said, I like the Steve Stricker approach.  

My only difference from Stricker is that my feet are closer together.  The wider my feet, the more my tendency to mishit.  I have tried this shot with a little more wrist hinge, and I can do it... just not consistent enough to use it.  

[PMookie]

My go-to. I do this all the time now. So easy, and reduces bladed shots, and fat shots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/no-chunk-chipping-stand-closer-to-simplify-your-swing/amp


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[cnosil]

and it's PM.. I don't think that anybody can argue his status in the short-game world. 

As simple as this is, it's helped me tremendously! 

 

Watched the Phil clip last night. Chipping really isn’t my issues, more if a pitching problem. I follow the approach that pmookie posted for chipping. Problem for me is that it stops working when I need more carry. Going to watch the video from Kenny tonight.

[azstu324]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

Watched the Phil clip last night. Chipping really isn’t my issues, more if a pitching problem. I follow the approach that pmookie posted for chipping. Problem for me is that it stops working when I need more carry. Going to watch the video from Kenny tonight.

I still find that the technique is applicable all the way out to full shots. The only thing Might do differently on a pitch is widen the stance to about shoulder length and maybe neutralize the weight on both fee a bit.. maybe 60% pressure on the front foot. Would still place the ball in back half of my stance somewhere and lead with the handle. Hit the ball first as it will cause the ball to ride up the club face and you'll get some good height and not lose any distance. Regardless of whether or not this works for you, it looks like you're getting some really good variety of recommendations here. 

 

[Kenny B]

On 11/19/2018 at 5:52 PM, cnosil said:

Biggest problem for me is hitting those 10-70 yard partial wedge shots when the ground is wet.  Typically I hit down on the ball trying to use the bounce like a bunker shot to make sure I get under the ball. Now that the ground is starting to remain a bit wetter I am going right under the ball and getting no distance.

How do you approach this distance?

There's another video on youtube showing Stricker hitting a 69 yard pitch shot.  Exact same motion as his chip shot.  When I get to that distance, I have to hinge a little more.  I really haven't tried this under wet ground conditions, so if you do try it, I would interested in your results.

[cnosil]

Today was really wet;  had about an inch of rain yesterday.   Pitches and chips were horrendous.  if I try to catch ball first I blade it otherwise I hit fat and go right under the ball.   Just can't seem to find a groove for these shots unless the ground is firm.   Wish it didn't get dark so early so I could head to the course and just hit shots for a few hours.  

[revkev]

Definitely play the ball a bit back in the stance, keep the club face square so that you catch it flush and try to accelerate through the ball.

You have to be precise - it’s hard and takes practice - I try to find a spot to practice off of tight down hill lies - a couple of shag bags of those from 40 or 50 yards often does the trick.

Ironically this time of the year is over for us.


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[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, revkev said:

Definitely play the ball a bit back in the stance, keep the club face square so that you catch it flush and try to accelerate through the ball.

You have to be precise - it’s hard and takes practice - I try to find a spot to practice off of tight down hill lies - a couple of shag bags of those from 40 or 50 yards often does the trick.

Ironically this time of the year is over for us.

 

It will come down to practice and like you said  just need to go hit a couple of bags of ball.   It is interesting that I do okay on hardpan since I hit down to get under the ball to avoid the thin shot.  The wet ground is where the problems occur.