USGA Course and Slope Ratings lookup question

[Mr. 82]

So I just finished playing the Crooked Cat course at Orange County National in Winter Garden, FL, and I went to post my round to GHIN on my iphone, and the course doesn't show up in the database, either by searching on Crooked Cat or Orange County National or variations of either.

 

I know you can enter a score manually, which I did in this case, but I find it very curious that this course is not in the USGA GHIN database. In fact, the Panther Lake course at OCN is not in the database either. Anyone have any ideas as to why these two great and famous courses wouldn't be in the GHIN database?

[Wedgie]

So I just finished playing the Crooked Cat course at Orange County National in Winter Garden, FL, and I went to post my round to GHIN on my iphone, and the course doesn't show up in the database, either by searching on Crooked Cat or Orange County National or variations of either.
 
I know you can enter a score manually, which I did in this case, but I find it very curious that this course is not in the USGA GHIN database. In fact, the Panther Lake course at OCN is not in the database either. Anyone have any ideas as to why these two great and famous courses wouldn't be in the GHIN database?

I found it under Orange County National thru the Rhode Island Golf Association website that I use to post scores. Here is where it gets strange. It says invalid course rating, cannot post score. I’ve never seen that before.


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[tommc23]

Geez Gswag you broke the system lol

[Kenny B]

The only thing I can think of is that OCN made some changes recently to the courses, and the FSGA hasn't re-rated the courses yet.

Here in WA when a course makes changes, they usually notify the WSGA that changes will be made and a rating committee will make a trip to the course rather quickly to assess the changes and re-rate if necessary.

We had one course spend a lot of money putting in some new bunkers, but when the committee showed up, they said the bunkers didn't change the rating/slope because they weren't in positions to affect the scratch or bogey golfer... a waste of money if they were trying to make the course more difficult.

[Mr. 82]

Well, I actually emailed the FSGA and they answered with this...

The ratings for OCN are outdated and not valid, you should not post those scores.

http://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicap-manual-2012-2015.html#!rule-14397

14-2. Authorized Golf Associations to Re-rate Courses

An authorized golf association must periodically review Ratings of courses and revise them as necessary. Newly constructed courses change rapidly in the first few years and must be re-rated within five years. An established course must be re-rated at least every 10 years, even if it has not been changed in any way. A course must no longer use its USGA Course Rating and Slope Rating if its ratings are more than 10 years old and scores recorded on that course may not be posted to a player's scoring record. Each course must contact an authorized golf association within its jurisdiction to schedule a re-rating.





Thanks,

Mark R. Boyko
Club Services Manager
Florida State Golf Association
www.fsga.org
(813) 868-5855




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[PlaidJacket]

Anyone know how you can find out - lookup the last time a course was rated? I've searched the USGA site and can only find course ratings. But not when they were last rated. ie... the date.

 

[Kenny B]

12 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

Anyone know how you can find out - lookup the last time a course was rated? I've searched the USGA site and can only find course ratings. But not when they were last rated. ie... the date.

The date of the last rating should be posted at the course, usually near the computer where the scores are entered into GHIN.  At least that's where it is at my course.  I would ask the pro if it's not posted.

[Kenny B]

14 hours ago, GSwag said:

Well, I actually emailed the FSGA and they answered with this...

The ratings for OCN are outdated and not valid, you should not post those scores.

http://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicap-manual-2012-2015.html#!rule-14397

14-2. Authorized Golf Associations to Re-rate Courses

An authorized golf association must periodically review Ratings of courses and revise them as necessary. Newly constructed courses change rapidly in the first few years and must be re-rated within five years. An established course must be re-rated at least every 10 years, even if it has not been changed in any way. A course must no longer use its USGA Course Rating and Slope Rating if its ratings are more than 10 years old and scores recorded on that course may not be posted to a player's scoring record. Each course must contact an authorized golf association within its jurisdiction to schedule a re-rating.





Thanks,

Mark R. Boyko
Club Services Manager
Florida State Golf Association
www.fsga.org
(813) 868-5855




Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

It must be different depending on the state.  I observed the rating of two courses in my area a few years ago.  I asked the WSGA handicap chairman if I could watch how they do it.  Very interesting BTW.

As I recall the course only contacted the WSGA if they want a re-rating because of changes made.  The WSGA keeps a record of all courses in the state and the dates of their rating.  When it's time for a re-rating, they contact the course to schedule it.  They try to do several courses in one local area over a few days.

[PlaidJacket]

I'd like to know about our club-course. I suspect it hasn't been re-rated in over 10 years. About 5 years ago new greens were put in and a little latter two holes had new bunkers designed and installed. On two of the holes the greens were redesigned also. All of that changed the way the course plays. Certainly the two holes with the new bunkers and redesigned greens. I might inquire with the TGA. 

[tony@CIC]

14 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

I'd like to know about our club-course. I suspect it hasn't been re-rated in over 10 years. About 5 years ago new greens were put in and a little latter two holes had new bunkers designed and installed. On two of the holes the greens were redesigned also. All of that changed the way the course plays. Certainly the two holes with the new bunkers and redesigned greens. I might inquire with the TGA. 

Can the Club pro or Superintendent provide the info? 

[PlaidJacket]

31 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Can the Club pro or Superintendent provide the info? 

Yes they can or should be able to. However, I'd like to know the situation prior to me asking. 

[Kenny B]

1 hour ago, PlaidJacket said:

Yes they can or should be able to. However, I'd like to know the situation prior to me asking. 

You should be able to find your state's Director of Handicapping and Course Rating on your state's golf association website.  

[revkev]

I know that my course is being rerated because we are going to be playing 17 as a par 4 for a period of time - I wonder if they will have two ratings from each set of tees, one for that and one when it returns to being a par 5 again - they are hoping for that by this time next year. 

 

We'll see

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, revkev said:

I know that my course is being rerated because we are going to be playing 17 as a par 4 for a period of time - I wonder if they will have two ratings from each set of tees, one for that and one when it returns to being a par 5 again - they are hoping for that by this time next year. 

 

We'll see

Here's what the Handicap Manual says about using temporary tees or greens:

Quote

The Handicap Committee must notify the Authorized Golf Association when temporary tees and/or greens are used. (See Decision 5-1a/3.) The Authorized Golf Association will decide whether scores made under those conditions are to be accepted for handicap purposes, and whether the USGA Course Ratingand Slope Rating should be modified temporarily. The Handicap Committee has a responsibility to notify its members that when a hole is not played due to construction, the score for that hole must be par plus any handicap strokes to which the player is entitled. (See Section 4-2.)

It seems possible that they'll just do the rating from the normal tees.  There are tables of adjustments to be made to the course rating and slope when playing an "unrated set of tees" based on the difference in distance, those could be applied while you're playing the "altered" hole.  Or you could simply score that hole (for handicap only) as par plus handicap strokes, or they actually could rate that hole from your temporary tees since they're going to be rerating the whole course anyway.  I guess the short answer is "I don't know".

[revkev]

Gee thanks Dave.

We've been told that we aren't to post scores from Bayou until further notice.  That's fine with me - I haven't been posting scores since the fairway project began and if need be would simply use my league handicap as a handicap.  I will start to post once we are back on line - I was informed by Bayou that they intend to increase the playing privileges that they have afforded me with my clergy membership to unlimited after 2 in the winter and 3 in the summer - smart on their part as I will often bring guests and that will be a boost to revenue.

 

They are hurting right now and about to be hurt more when a remodeled upscale course opens up in the area.