Price Breaking Point

[RickyBobby_PR]

Rumors and speculation with several of the upcoming releases have prices breaking $500 for drivers and closing in on $300 for fairway woods.  With not knowing what’s in each of the upcoming releases and based on what we have seen: Callaway keeping jailbreak and their standards moveable weight on the driver with something called flash face (no info on what this is about), TM with screws in the face that based on reports is filled with resin and/or foam which is compared to Callaway (until more info on flash face comes out) imo is bringing actual new tech to the market similar to jailbreak two years ago. Plus their change in track system while maintains twist face, no rumors from ping yet but speculation of them finally adding moveable weights.

We know golfers on forums tend to have more knowledge and are usually better informed than avg Joe golfer and many don’t have a problem paying premium price for equipment including myself and sometimes several different brands of same type of club, there are also many that don’t like buying new or need new and shiny especially if performance doesn’t improve enough from a previous release.

So what day my fellow spies. Will these suspected prices be the breaking point for the consumer or will we see these companies maintain their sales numbers.

 

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

There will always be those that want the latest and greatest and want to play what the pros play regardless of price. For the average Joe I'm guessing they continue to do what most do who don't want to pay X amount and look either online, or wherever and purchase last year's model for a fair discount.

Prices overall seem to be creeping up whether it be wedges, driver and everything in between. All those who can will continue to buy the newest kit. Others like myself will try them and demo them, but unless they are complete game changers I will continue to look for deals on last year's gear. Expectation being a few wedges this season!

[null]

I think what we are seeing is a market correction.

Golf club prices, specifically driver prices, have been relatively flat when compared to inflation over the last 15 years or so.

And whenever this discussion comes up, I link to this article

https://mygolfspy.com/the-increasing-costs-of-drivers/

Quote

The industry-wide consensus is that the market is dominated by the serious golfer. It’s a trend that allows bigger OEMs to skip that entry-level market almost entirely. Beginners and recreational golfers will seek out alternatives. For example, they can purchase last year’s model at a reduced price point or buy used, while the core golfer is more willing to spend on the latest and greatest. 

Quote

The bottom line is that the cost of golf equipment has increased over the past five years, and it’s unlikely we’ve seen the ceiling. Expectations within the industry are that while prices may remain stable for the next couple of years, further increases are inevitable – and that’s before we consider the possible impact of the recently imposed tariffs. The jump in prices is the result of both increased costs (R&D and manufacturing) and the changing demographics of the game. $500 is the new normal, and $300 – at least among the industry leaders – is a fast-fading memory.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

For me I’m not one to shy away from paying full price or worrying about what the price is if the equipment works and performs better than what I have now.  I used to replace for new and shiny with only a minimal amount of performance improvement.  So these prices to me aren’t too expensive yet.  

I will say I think that for a large portion of the general public golfer they reached that point when drivers hit $500.  From my experience the general public golfer doesn’t upgrade every year or even every couple. I think when they see the 2018 clubs in sale they will but that over the more expensive 2019 stuff.

i think TM has the chance to sell and be at the top if they can tell a good story about the screws and technology.

Ping and Titleist have their base that they can count on but I think with g400 success and what they will bring in g410 they will continue to bring others once, titleist has a really good product in TS2/3 and I think the results will convert others as well.

Callaway always brings a strong marketing game and keeping a lot of what they’ve done it might be hard to convince non loyalists to fish out money for some “flash face” but will wait to see what this us about.

Technology and innovation plus materials and R&D all factor in to the price so I’m interested in seeing what the companies have to say from a tech perspective to see if the price merits it 

 

[tony@CIC]

The predictable thing for those new "improved" clubs is you wait 6-9 months and they're selling at a substantial discount. So I wonder is that part of the marketing/pricing plan; ratchet up the price initially because you know you'll have to discount it to a more except able level? 

[null]

4 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

The predictable thing for those new "improved" clubs is you wait 6-9 months and they're selling at a substantial discount. So I wonder is that part of the marketing/pricing plan; ratchet up the price initially because you know you'll have to discount it to a more except able level? 

It's the same in just about every industry - manufacturers make the highest margins on early adopters.  This isn't unique to golf.

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

The predictable thing for those new "improved" clubs is you wait 6-9 months and they're selling at a substantial discount. So I wonder is that part of the marketing/pricing plan; ratchet up the price initially because you know you'll have to discount it to a more except able level? 

For some brands that’s more perception than reality. The price drops usually come closer to the new release date which can range from 12-24 months depending on brand. But it’s necessay to move the remaining product and clear space for the new stuff. 

But what other industry doesn’t do that?

[null]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

But what other industry doesn’t do that?

BINGO!

Golfers - particularly on internet forums, LOVE complaining about new releases and price drops - yet it happens in just about every single consumer goods industry - clothing, electronics, autos, etc.  

Yet internet golfers complain as if it is a unique problem to them and it somehow negatively impacts them.  It's tiresome.

[Berg Ryman]

35 minutes ago, jlukes said:

I think what we are seeing is a market correction.

Golf club prices, specifically driver prices, have been relatively flat with inflation over the last 15 years or so.

And whenever this discussion comes up, I link to this article

https://mygolfspy.com/the-increasing-costs-of-drivers/

 

I was jumping into this thread to link to this exact same article, but JLukes continues to prove he's among the best of us. I agree with most of what's being said here, and I don't even think it's a terrible thing that some of us are being priced out of new equipment. 

By not falling to the temptation of new equipment because I can't afford it or don't want to spend an obscene amount of money to acquire it, it allows me to do as the kids say and "git gud" with what I currently have. This personally makes me enjoy the game more because I have to learn how to make shots work for and create opportunities with the equipment I have or spend the money I have on lessons or rounds at nice courses instead of buying a new club to cure all ills.

[null]

9 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

I was jumping into this thread to link to this exact same article, but JLukes continues to prove he's among the best of us. I agree with most of what's being said here, and I don't even think it's a terrible thing that some of us are being priced out of new equipment. 

By not falling to the temptation of new equipment because I can't afford it or don't want to spend an obscene amount of money to acquire it, it allows me to do as the kids say and "git gud" with what I currently have. This personally makes me enjoy the game more because I have to learn how to make shots work for and create opportunities with the equipment I have or spend the money I have on lessons or rounds at nice courses instead of buying a new club to cure all ills.

Really appreciate the kind words! 

[bens197]

Guess what follows?

A new pocket for lower cost product (Tour Edge) to give some folks a chance at keeping current without paying too much.

I get the frustration but let’s be real, many aren’t buying the latest and greatest every single year. Lower volume and increased costs mean paying more. I paid $510 for a LST with a HZRDUS last year and I’ll keep it for the next four years. I’m ok with that.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[cnosil]

To the OP, prices will continue to rise until company performance is impacted. There are costs associated with producing a product. Price is determined based on desired profit margins and projected sales numbers.
When numbers aren’t met companies have to start making adjustments. Prices can be lowered to increase sales or supply can be limited to artificially inflate prices. Consumers as a whole have to be willing to stop buying a product at a particular price to have any impact on price. This is really simple economics.

As to what that price is, I don’t know. My guess is that $1000 for drivers will soon be the norm; especially with custom shafts.

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, cnosil said:

To the OP, prices will continue to rise until company performance is impacted. There are costs associated with producing a product. Price is determined based on desired profit margins and projected sales numbers.
When numbers aren’t met companies have to start making adjustments. Prices can be lowered to increase sales or supply can be limited to artificially inflate prices. Consumers as a whole have to be willing to stop buying a product at a particular price to have any impact on price. This is really simple economics.

As to what that price is, I don’t know. My guess is that $1000 for drivers will soon be the norm; especially with custom shafts.

Totally agree with you. The consumers willingness or lack of to spend money will determine where the price holds at.

Ill be interested to see how the marketing groups at each of the companies approach these releases to “justify” the prices.  Speed is already at the forefront from 3 of the brands. Titleist doing it a little more subtly with the paper showing gains in ball speed and distance after fitting where Callaway pushing the flashy commercials with flash and faster than humanly possible and TM using the flames and engines forming into the screws.

i think a lot of consumers are starting to look at the tech and what companies are doing and whether there’s actual performance increases

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, jlukes said:

It's the same in just about every industry - manufacturers make the highest margins on early adopters.  This isn't unique to golf.

I'd agree but it seems that in the golf club industry it's faster and more extreme. 

[Brian A]

I think the prices are creeping up and causing a limit to peoples interest in golf.  Yes, there are always the big box starter sets to play with for a few hundred. Which most people dont want to be that guy who rolls up to the course with a starter set.  If your are older and trying to get in, seeing $1000 for a set of irons, $500 for drivers, $300 for fairways and say a modest $150 for a putter, you're looking at an entry to the game of close to $3000, plus lessons, range balls, greens fees etc. 

[Headhammer]

No breaking point in sight! I voted too expensive, for me, but that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of people out there willing to pay. As long as those people exist prices will continue to go up. We all have things we are willing to pay more for; family, vacations, cars, etc. However, there are things people just don't want to pay for,. or should I say pay a lot for. It's sort of like my neighbor who complains about paying $5 a day for his heart medication that saved his life while he drives his Porsche to Starbucks every morning for a $5 caramel frappasomethig and upgrades his iPhone every time a new model comes out.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 minutes ago, Apes44 said:

I think the prices are creeping up and causing a limit to peoples interest in golf.  Yes, there are always the big box starter sets to play with for a few hundred. Which most people dont want to be that guy who rolls up to the course with a starter set.  If your are older and trying to get in, seeing $1000 for a set of irons, $500 for drivers, $300 for fairways and say a modest $150 for a putter, you're looking at an entry to the game of close to $3000, plus lessons, range balls, greens fees etc. 

But the reality is with secondary market, end of release cycle sales the price can be a lot less.

golf is a hobby for the vast majority of golfers and like any hobby it can be as expensive or as cheap as one chooses.

I do think there is a sticker shock at $500/driver or $1200+ for iron sets and so on and there will be more at what the speculation is for the upcoming release.  Only time will tell if the upcoming prices are too expensive 

[Mr. 82]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

Guess what follows?

A new pocket for lower cost product (Tour Edge) to give some folks a chance at keeping current without paying too much.

I get the frustration but let’s be real, many aren’t buying the latest and greatest every single year. Lower volume and increased costs mean paying more. I paid $510 for a LST with a HZRDUS last year and I’ll keep it for the next four years. I’m ok with that.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I'm in this camp, sort of.  Until a year or so ago, every club in my bag, except for wedges, was at least a decade old.  But over the last 18 months I've basically purchased an entire golf bag worth of new clubs, from my PING G400 driver, hybrid and crossover, to my G irons, and wedges.  I went big in 2003, and bought most of what I had in my bag for many years with a few exceptions.  I plan on sticking with what is in my bag now for the next decade or so.

The only thing I might purchase in the next couple of years is a new putter.  But even then I might seek out something off of ebay for this, therein proving the OP's point that golf clubs are too expensive for most of us.  If I can find it at a discount I will.  I opted to buy new on almost everything currently in my bag, because I was custom fit for them.  You can't custom fit from used clubs for the most part.

[Mr. 82]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

To the OP, prices will continue to rise until company performance is impacted. There are costs associated with producing a product. Price is determined based on desired profit margins and projected sales numbers.
When numbers aren’t met companies have to start making adjustments. Prices can be lowered to increase sales or supply can be limited to artificially inflate prices. Consumers as a whole have to be willing to stop buying a product at a particular price to have any impact on price. This is really simple economics.

As to what that price is, I don’t know. My guess is that $1000 for drivers will soon be the norm; especially with custom shafts.

Scotty Cameron might be a good example that negates this argument.  For whatever reason, Scotty has the most incredible loyal following and they could probably charge $1,000 or more (hypothetically) for a basic putter, and folks would buy it.  I'd still three putt with it like any other putter, but it would be a $1,000 three putt.

[bens197]

3 minutes ago, GSwag said:

I'm in this camp, sort of.  Until a year or so ago, every club in my bag, except for wedges, was at least a decade old.  But over the last 18 months I've basically purchased an entire golf bag worth of new clubs, from my PING G400 driver, hybrid and crossover, to my G irons, and wedges.  I went big in 2003, and bought most of what I had in my bag for many years with a few exceptions.  I plan on sticking with what is in my bag now for the next decade or so.

The only thing I might purchase in the next couple of years is a new putter.  But even then I might seek out something off of ebay for this, therein proving the OP's point that golf clubs are too expensive for most of us.  If I can find it at a discount I will.  I opted to buy new on almost everything currently in my bag, because I was custom fit for them.  You can't custom fit from used clubs for the most part.

I had the same setup until last season.  i5 irons from 2006, a G5 that was replaced with a 913D3 and a 904F fairway.  

Working most of my young adult life in bag rooms and golf shops opened my eyes to one reality.  The avid country club golfers really don't replace most of their clubs with every product release.  The new product is split between the "Need to have" crowd and the guys like us who are upgrading after getting good use out of our equipment.

Getting back to the topic however, JLukes hit on the topic square on.  

We look at every industry, vehicles, lumber, home pricing or any other disposable good and really just acknowledge that they're subject to inflation and increasing costs.  The shock of a $500 driver is really a product of flat pricing as he mentioned.  

I for one have no issue paying a reasonable price for golf clubs knowing two things.  1, it supports my local shop and their staff.  2, I care enough about having one quality hobby that I want to give myself the best opportunity to play as well as I am capable of playing.

 

[cnosil]

Scotty Cameron might be a good example that negates this argument.  For whatever reason, Scotty has the most incredible loyal following and they could probably charge $1,000 or more (hypothetically) for a basic putter, and folks would buy it.  I'd still three putt with it like any other putter, but it would be a $1,000 three putt.

I don’t think Cameron negates my post, but supports it. General product is at a price level and limited release is a higher price. Price is set at a point that will get people to purchase if the general release stuff was at $1k I bet Cameron sales would fall.

[Brian A]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I don’t think Cameron negates my post, but supports it. General product is at a price level and limited release is a higher price. Price is set at a point that will get people to purchase if the general release stuff was at $1k I bet Cameron sales would fall.

As I have a Cameron (which I love and statistically putt better with it, albeit could be a placebo affect) honestly the price point was painful to buy and had the person in the store not talked me in to the extra $100 vs the Spider, Cameron would have lost out.  Just think how many more Camerons would sell at the same price point as a spider?  

 

Look at PXG, theyre great clubs but super pricey, so you dont see many on the course

[cnosil]

As I have a Cameron (which I love and statistically putt better with it, albeit could be a placebo affect) honestly the price point was painful to buy and had the person in the store not talked me in to the extra $100 vs the Spider, Cameron would have lost out.  Just think how many more Camerons would sell at the same price point as a spider?  
 
Look at PXG, theyre great clubs but super pricey, so you dont see many on the course

They may have sold more, but would the numbers sold make up for the $100 price drop? If the projected sales are 10000 units at $400 that is 4 million. Drop it $100 and you get 3 million. Would the $100 get you the additional 3000 plus sales to get you back to 4 million? Maybe maybe not. What if the projected sales were 20000 units or more?

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, Apes44 said:

As I have a Cameron (which I love and statistically putt better with it, albeit could be a placebo affect) honestly the price point was painful to buy and had the person in the store not talked me in to the extra $100 vs the Spider, Cameron would have lost out.  Just think how many more Camerons would sell at the same price point as a spider?  

 

Look at PXG, theyre great clubs but super pricey, so you dont see many on the course

PXG isn’t marketing to the every day golfer. They want exclusivity and some might say elitism do not sure using PXG as an example for price points. Scotty Cameron sells plenty as his current price point and every Wednesday when the gallery putters are releases they normally sell out in mins of not sooner and that includes the ones at $8k+

[TR1PTIK]

Brand new, properly fitted equipment has been beyond my financial means for several years. I certainly don't see that trend changing anytime soon with prices going up the way they are. That said, I agree with previous posts about current price increases being a market correction. Just looking at PGA value guide for past MSRP prices, the Nike SasQuatch Sumo Squared had an MSRP of $480 in 2007 and the Taylormade SLDR had an MSRP of $500 in 2013. Those examples might be on the high side of what was available (Ping G25 MSRP was $350 in 2014), but it certainly demonstrates that $500 drivers are nothing new at all and there are still plenty of players within the market that price below that. Would I spend the money on these clubs if I had it? Probably. My purchase decisions are not weighed on price alone, but on overall value. If a product costs more, but offers distinct performance advantages and/or superior quality over another product at a lesser price point I'm going to buy the more expensive item so long as my pocket book allows. I want the best gear I can get my hands on!  For right now, that means buying clubs on eBay and getting them adjusted to better fit my swing. Some day, it could mean a full bag fitting at PXG or custom order from some boutique club builder.

[TR1PTIK]

5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I'd agree but it seems that in the golf club industry it's faster and more extreme. 

Try building computers as a hobby... Talk about a 6-month product cycle. Yeesh!

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

Try building computers as a hobby... Talk about a 6-month product cycle. Yeesh!

Yup I can relate. I was in the electronics component business for 15 yrs. supplying OEMs - last thing in the world you wanted was slow moving inventory.

[PlaidJacket]

If I were required to purchase new golf clubs every year... or two I might say equipment is "too expensive". But I don't buy much equipment** so my cost of ownership is rather low actually. For guys that buy new equipment all the time they might think clubs are expensive. But I doubt that or they wouldn't be buying them. For others the cost of buying new clubs is a non-factor. To each his own. Drivers will eventually be $800 - $1,000 or more!. Kind of like the loaf of bread story. "I remember when a loaf of bread cost...". I remember when you could buy a brand new fairway busting driver for $125!! Or a kickass new muscle car right off the showroom floor for $3,500! But now days a basic ride is $35,000. What happened?

Where I spend my golf money is on club dues - green fees - access to play the game. Not equipment. Hell if every mfg in the world stopped making new equipment no problemo; I've got a whole stash out in the garage to pick and choose from. I'll still be playing all I want and loving every minute of it.

 

**I'm considering buying a new $500 driver. First new driver I will have purchased in 8 years. My current 2014 SLDR I got from MGS for a review. Before that I played a Ping Rapture for several years. It was about $250 - new.

[JbcobbIII]

I have never had any new golf clubs. I have always bought used or played hand me down clubs. I am in the middle of putting together a whole new bag. I still have a budget to stick to. I can’t afford to just buy all PXG or a JDM boutique set. I’m using new equipment from Ben Hogan Golf and probably Tour Edge for a driver and woods. Hogan has the direct to consumer model and Tour Edge isn’t a major OEM, so they don’t spend much on advertising or paying tour guys. This in turn, keeps their prices down. The majority of my budget will be going to my club fitter to fit me and build the clubs to my specs, MOI matching, etc. I am hoping to keep the total cost between $1500 and $2000. So, that’s my price point.

[russtopherb]

21 hours ago, bens197 said:

I paid $510 for a LST with a HZRDUS last year and I’ll keep it for the next four years. I’m ok with that.

I think that's great - you paid what you felt was a fair value for a club that you'll game for a (relatively) long time. It seems to me like the ones complaining the most about high costs are the ones who go through 2-3 drivers per season and a few sets of irons. Clubs depreciate with value the second you hit them for the first time, they're not collectors pieces (for the most part). If you spend $500 on a club and play 100 rounds with it for the next 4 years, that's an insane value. For someone like me who plays around 20-25 times per year, it's a different story.

20 hours ago, Apes44 said:

If your are older and trying to get in, seeing $1000 for a set of irons, $500 for drivers, $300 for fairways and say a modest $150 for a putter, you're looking at an entry to the game of close to $3000, plus lessons, range balls, greens fees etc. 

I don't think that's a fair representation at all of cost barriers to enter the game. There are plenty of brand new name-brand clubs on the shelf that a new golfer can get for far less than that, or they can by last year's model, or they can buy used. Going after the clubs with the highest shelf price and then retroactively complaining about how high the cost was isn't that great of an idea when there's so much choice out there.