Price Breaking Point

[bens197]

46 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I think that's great - you paid what you felt was a fair value for a club that you'll game for a (relatively) long time. It seems to me like the ones complaining the most about high costs are the ones who go through 2-3 drivers per season and a few sets of irons. Clubs depreciate with value the second you hit them for the first time, they're not collectors pieces (for the most part). If you spend $500 on a club and play 100 rounds with it for the next 4 years, that's an insane value. For someone like me who plays around 20-25 times per year, it's a different story.

I don't think that's a fair representation at all of cost barriers to enter the game. There are plenty of brand new name-brand clubs on the shelf that a new golfer can get for far less than that, or they can by last year's model, or they can buy used. Going after the clubs with the highest shelf price and then retroactively complaining about how high the cost was isn't that great of an idea when there's so much choice out there. 

I've always believed that there are ways to save money; Vice and Ben Hogan have given me that opportunity.  $500 seems like a lot for a driver but lets all be honest, have you checked your Verizon bill lately?  How about other everyday costs?  I pay almost $400 a year to have my trash hauled away but guess what, they never upcharge me or balk at what I put at the curb.  I also feel good knowing that they're paid a great wage and can live off of one income.

Golf is a luxury sport and it's expensive.  

[fozcycle]

As the Leader of a Weekly game, averaging 35 - 45 players each week, we have about 100 golfers. Of those, you have only a few that are gaming current equipment. Maybe 1 Rogue, a couple Epics, and a few Tmags M1-4’s. The rest play older equipment, even older when you look at the irons. That said, our golfers are not concerned about having the latest and greatest. Some even still game Ping Zings. If we are a microcosm of the golfing society, none are paying full price for equipment. Their “price point” is somewhere south of 50%.


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[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, russtopherb said:

I think that's great - you paid what you felt was a fair value for a club that you'll game for a (relatively) long time. It seems to me like the ones complaining the most about high costs are the ones who go through 2-3 drivers per season and a few sets of irons. Clubs depreciate with value the second you hit them for the first time, they're not collectors pieces (for the most part). If you spend $500 on a club and play 100 rounds with it for the next 4 years, that's an insane value. For someone like me who plays around 20-25 times per year, it's a different story.

Imo it’s a mix of who complains or just talks about the price of golf goods or golf in general. There are some tinkerers who complain but who would g want to spend less on a hobby. There are also those who don’t play a lot and don’t upgrade a lot that complain and some don’t upgrade because of those reasons. There’s the group who are concerned with the growth of the game and see the cost of new equipment as a barrier to getting new people into the game especially for those with minimal expendable income. But as has been mentioned in here there are lots of options for buying equipment either new or used to offset the cost and imo some of the complaints.  

After all 1) it’s a hobby and we can all enjoy for a long time and it’s up to us to determine the value of something and whether we will but it, plus the market will only bear what the consumer allows it to 2) it doesn’t matter what the topic, hobby, situation there’s never going to be 100% happiness and we as humans will always find something to complain about.

as for the thus topic I started the thread to see how people felt about the cost and it’s relation to the marketing of tech/innovation or the perception on whether companies are really adding new tech or innovation every cycle especially on the visible side. 

I look at the epic flash and other than “flash face” written on the face I don’t see anything new from Callaway that wasn’t in rogue or epic. Will have to see the story they tell abc what the new driver brings that’s “better”. The TM drivers have changed tracks again (could be good or bad) they have added new tech/innovation with the screws in the face and what’s going to be foam and/or resin inside plus the story about checking every head to be on the USGA CT allowance.  Titleist bringing new tech to help the speed issues. 

[silver & black]

All of the comments have merit... and I generally agree, but at what point does one just say no to paying an exorbitant price for what is essentially just a piece of metal on the end of a stick?

[bens197]

All of the comments have merit... and I generally agree, but at what point does one just say no to paying an exorbitant price for what is essentially just a piece of metal on the end of a stick?

 

I believe they’ll say no when there is a comparable alternative for a discounted price.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, silver & black said:

All of the comments have merit... and I generally agree, but at what point does one just say no to paying an exorbitant price for what is essentially just a piece of metal on the end of a stick?

I think that will vary by individual. Some are going to pay the price regardless because they want the latest and greatest and some will pay it for the brand of their choice.  Some may have reached their breaking point already and others may not have reached theirs yet.

for me I’m willing to pay current and expected prices if the equipment outperforms my current stuff. I’m not sure what my breaking point is because I’ve ordered fairway wood with aftermarket shaft that cost about the current price of drivers 

[GB13]

2 hours ago, silver & black said:

All of the comments have merit... and I generally agree, but at what point does one just say no to paying an exorbitant price for what is essentially just a piece of metal on the end of a stick?

It depends on where you think the returns stop. If you are willing to pay $1000 for 3 yards, you will, if you think that's ridiculous, you won't. I won't ever buy new clubs. I will either buy used or buy last years model. For me, there is not enough of an appreciable difference that makes the new club $300-500 better. 

I guess I can't give you a definitive answer to that question. We all have our individual breaking point. For me, I've hit it. Others may not have hit it. At some point, if prices keep going up, people will stop buying the newer model at sticker price and the OEM will either feel it, and reduce the price, or go out of business since they are out of touch with the market. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, GB13 said:

It depends on where you think the returns stop. If you are willing to pay $1000 for 3 yards, you will, if you think that's ridiculous, you won't. I won't ever buy new clubs. I will either buy used or buy last years model. For me, there is not enough of an appreciable difference that makes the new club $300-500 better. 

I guess I can't give you a definitive answer to that question. We all have our individual breaking point. For me, I've hit it. Others may not have hit it. At some point, if prices keep going up, people will stop buying the newer model at sticker price and the OEM will either feel it, and reduce the price, or go out of business since they are out of touch with the market. 

I agree it will vary for each on what better performance means and if they will upgrade. We touched on that in the thread I did a few weeks back.  I used to be one for 2-3 yards now I realize that doesn’t change much for me on the course. I look for better dispersion on my misses and distance I need something that gives me the chance at one less club into greens when it comes to driver. I’m much more loose when it comes to fairway woods. Here I’m for whatever distance I can get but without sacrificing dispersion. It’s mostly a tee option for me and off the deck it’s lets see how close o can get. For hybrids it’s about fitting a gap so those change only if clubs change and I end up with a gap that needs to be fixed

[GB13]

I have a question:

To those of you that answered, yes golf clubs are too expensive, in the poll, do you still buy them new? If so, are they really too expensive if you are still willing to pay for them? 

[silver & black]

That's a good question. I think clubs are too expensive now. I understand the tech and R & D that goes into them. But, at the end of the day, it is still just a piece of metal on a stick. 

I understand upgrading to gain performance, but I can't wrap my head around paying an extreme amount of money for what can't possibly be all that expensive to produce. The profit margins must be phenomenal!

Having said that..... I'm seriously considering an new TS2/3...lol.

 

 

[tony@CIC]

That's a good question. I think clubs are too expensive now. I understand the tech and R & D that goes into them. But, at the end of the day, it is still just a piece of metal on a stick. 
I understand upgrading to gain performance, but I can't wrap my head around paying an extreme amount of money for what can't possibly be all that expensive to produce. The profit margins must be phenomenal!
Having said that..... I'm seriously considering an new TS2/3...lol.
 
 

I think it's more marketing $$ then R&D $$. Remember these guys are compensating players, running big ads in magazines, huge booths at trade shows, etc. etc. all of that is built into the cost of the clubs. And if that's not enough to yoU've got the middleman - the big box stores.

For me the most sensible thing is to wait 9 months and buy it before the launch of the latest super improved club that may or may not give you an extra 2 yds.


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[Headhammer]

On 12/13/2018 at 8:33 AM, fozcycle said:

As the Leader of a Weekly game, averaging 35 - 45 players each week, we have about 100 golfers. Of those, you have only a few that are gaming current equipment. Maybe 1 Rogue, a couple Epics, and a few Tmags M1-4’s. The rest play older equipment, even older when you look at the irons. That said, our golfers are not concerned about having the latest and greatest. Some even still game Ping Zings. If we are a microcosm of the golfing society, none are paying full price for equipment. Their “price point” is somewhere south of 50%.


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This is an excellent observation and one that I see regularly. Guys that play all the time near me may have one newish club in their bag and the rest are quite dated. People that don't play very often, or I just have never seen at our club before, often have the the latest & greatest $5K bag. To this day,  I've never played with anyone that owns a set of PXGs.

[revkev]

To the OP, prices will continue to rise until company performance is impacted. There are costs associated with producing a product. Price is determined based on desired profit margins and projected sales numbers.
When numbers aren’t met companies have to start making adjustments. Prices can be lowered to increase sales or supply can be limited to artificially inflate prices. Consumers as a whole have to be willing to stop buying a product at a particular price to have any impact on price. This is really simple economics.

As to what that price is, I don’t know. My guess is that $1000 for drivers will soon be the norm; especially with custom shafts.

Other than guessing the top line landing spot this is exactly what I would say. There’s a desired profit, a fixed cost and prices are set accordingly. There is also testing done to help determine what the market will bear.


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[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, Middler said:

Lots of things are too expensive in my view, but I've always countered that by lengthening my replacement buying frequency. For those of us who don't want/need new clubs often, we just stretch out replacement buys, so the OEMs make the same money on me in the long run, probably even less inflation adjusted. YMMV

"Club ho's" are the only ones really impacted, there seem to be many here - not criticizing, we probably all have other splurges if not golf equipment, and golf is a hell of a lot less expensive than boating and some other activities.

While I agree gear junkies are probably most affected due to frequency of buys I think price to them doesn’t matter as much. They will buy new or find a deal on current releases. Not to mention frequent buys usually leads to trade ins which cut costs.

[null]

Bumping this thread, as I feel there will be more discussion about this topic with PXG lowering their prices and other large OEMs rumored to be increasing driver and fairway wood prices

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, jlukes said:

Bumping this thread, as I feel there will be more discussion about this topic with PXG lowering their prices and other large OEMs rumored to be increasing driver and fairway wood prices

Going to be an interesting release cycle and to see how the internet responds to the big brands and their prices as well as to see if pxg gains the traction with their driver being in line with them. $75 or less difference between the big names and pxg imo isn’t not a lot and should imo get some to consider or switch to pxg

[ballplayer002003]

I am in the market for a new driver this year, however I saw that the TM M5 is going to be listed for $550...that is too rich for my blood.  I am a teacher that LOVES the game, but that is too much.  I have been playing long enough to know that it is more the operator than the equipment.  Will I demo/test every club I can get my hands on?  Absolutely.  With that being said, I am looking forward to trying the Titleist TS2/3, Ping G400 Max, both which have been out for a bit so the price is more manageable.  I am also looking forward to trying the new Mizuno 190 series which rumor has it will cost about $100 less than the competition.  What's my breaking point?  I think we've reached it.  The consumers drive the price and as long as we are willing to pay more, the major companies will charge more.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

43 minutes ago, ballplayer002003 said:

I am in the market for a new driver this year, however I saw that the TM M5 is going to be listed for $550...that is too rich for my blood.  I am a teacher that LOVES the game, but that is too much.  I have been playing long enough to know that it is more the operator than the equipment.  Will I demo/test every club I can get my hands on?  Absolutely.  With that being said, I am looking forward to trying the Titleist TS2/3, Ping G400 Max, both which have been out for a bit so the price is more manageable.  I am also looking forward to trying the new Mizuno 190 series which rumor has it will cost about $100 less than the competition.  What's my breaking point?  I think we've reached it.  The consumers drive the price and as long as we are willing to pay more, the major companies will charge more.  

Ts2 is considered a current release and retails at $500, unless buying a used one that’s going to be going rate. The g400 line, titleist 917 and Tm m3/4 are going to be where you find the discounts 

[ballplayer002003]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Ts2 is considered a current release and retails at $500, unless buying a used one that’s going to be going rate. The g400 line, titleist 917 and Tm m3/4 are going to be where you find the discounts 

You are correct, however with these clubs being out for half a season or so, some golfers are already tired of them or just want the "latest and greatest", I have seen TS2/3 with only a few rounds played on them on eBay for 400.  I am willing to spend that, I refuse to spend 500+.  That money will be better spent on more lessons.