🤔 perplexed : 2nd lesson

[Big money]

Took an impromptu lesson last night. The instructor told me to throw a golf ball one armed (side armed) into the simulator screen.Pretending I was going to hit a golf ball on the ground. He recorded it and I had a perfect open body and bent right arm.He showed me the results and said I can physically do this. It was so simple and natural with no thoughts. Than he tried me take same motion with a golf club in my right arm only. Complete opposite, stalled body , extended arms , backing out flipping casting. Even he was stumped how I couldn’t replicate it with even one arm. Why does this happen? Is it lack of golf coordination? Or just some inner fear when it comes with golf and hitting a ball 

[tony@CIC]

Or old muscle memory??

[cnosil]

I don’t have any answers but this is the challenge with golf. I can chip/pitch right handed or left handed but start to struggle when both are put in the club. Probably a weight and as previously stated preprogrammed feels. Sounds like you goal is to try this on you own to start changing your mental programming.
Found a great drill for my pitching problem that has helped. Keep at it!

[Mr. 82]

 

[perseveringgolfer]

34 minutes ago, Big money said:

Took an impromptu lesson last night. The instructor told me to throw a golf ball one armed (side armed) into the simulator screen.Pretending I was going to hit a golf ball on the ground. He recorded it and I had a perfect open body and bent right arm.He showed me the results and said I can physically do this. It was so simple and natural with no thoughts. Than he tried me take same motion with a golf club in my right arm only. Complete opposite, stalled body , extended arms , backing out flipping casting. Even he was stumped how I couldn’t replicate it with even one arm. Why does this happen? Is it lack of golf coordination? Or just some inner fear when it comes with golf and hitting a ball 

I had a TPI coach do the same with me, to pretend I was trying to skip a stone over the water (I am fantastic at stone skipping  )

With a club it was different, definitely mental over physical.

Stone skipping I just do it, without thought of feet, turn, hips etc etc with a club my head is full of spaghetti 

 

Another thought is when throwing you have a continuous fluid movement, with golf its from a static standing start. Just a thought, maybe we should do a happy Gilmour 

[Big money]

Now, the next lesson will be a taxing position by micro position getting me the natural side arm throw feel with a club.For me, and maybe many many others, if we can’t even do something as basic as this.Than we really have very little chance of ever improving our golf swings.Really bummed after this lesson.Extremely disappointed 

[RickyBobby_PR]

People think to much when a club gets put in their hands. They tend to think to much and not move naturally. 

 

[cnosil]

Now, the next lesson will be a taxing position by micro position getting me the natural side arm throw feel with a club.For me, and maybe many many others, if we can’t even do something as basic as this.Than we really have very little chance of ever improving our golf swings.Really bummed after this lesson.Extremely disappointed 

Don’t be bummed; Treat it as a learning experience and knowledge gained. What you found out just puts you at a place where you can start moving forward. Embrace the challenge!

[RickyBobby_PR]

41 minutes ago, Big money said:

Now, the next lesson will be a taxing position by micro position getting me the natural side arm throw feel with a club.For me, and maybe many many others, if we can’t even do something as basic as this.Than we really have very little chance of ever improving our golf swings.Really bummed after this lesson.Extremely disappointed 

Don’t feel defeated. As your instructor said your body has the capability to perform the movements. You mind needs to be trained to perform these movements with a club in your hand.  Hopefully your pro can communicate what needs to be done so that you understand his teaching and that you can do what he wants you to do. If you don’t jive wit your pro over a few lessons it’s ok to find one you do mesh with

[Big money]

20 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Don’t be bummed; Treat it as a learning experience and knowledge gained. What you found out just puts you at a place where you can start moving forward. Embrace the challenge!

A challenge is an understatement

[alfriday101]

 

1 hour ago, Big money said:

Now, the next lesson will be a taxing position by micro position getting me the natural side arm throw feel with a club.For me, and maybe many many others, if we can’t even do something as basic as this.Than we really have very little chance of ever improving our golf swings.Really bummed after this lesson.Extremely disappointed 

 No, no, no, no and no.

 

Don't be bummed by this lesson.  Get excited!  Jump up and down.  Scream for joy.  

 

Throwing the ball should be a revelation.   

 

The problem is you missed the lesson from this drill. The drill is not about what your body can do, but what your mind can do.   You can throw a ball or stone because you have a clear intent to throw it to a target.  Your mind tells your body how to move without you having to direct the action "taxing position by micro position."  Your mind is free to throw the ball.  You are not micro managing it with throw/swing thoughts.

 

This is your moment.  Seize it.  Let go of the constant and endless search to find the perfect golf swing.  

 

As Adam Young says, "Get obsessed with the task, not the technique."  Free your mind from swing thoughts, body positions, club positions, face positions, weight shift, etc.   To gain control, you have to give up control.  

 

You can do it, and you can do it the next time you go out.  Throw your clubs.  That's right, throw clubs at the target.  Here is a video to take you through the entire process.  

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/473794/watch-how-to-throw-the-club-to-create-more-lag-and-distance/

 

Here is another.  

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/532902/watch-the-right-way-to-start-the-downswing/

 

Again, the point is not that your body is capable of doing these moves.  It is that you eliminate technical thoughts, positions,  and having your mind focused on your body parts.  If you do that, you can learn a that the swing is a fluid motion.  

 

Stop over thinking golf:

 

 

Embrace the freedom of learning to swing the club without conscious thought and direction.  Your swing will improve dramatically once you let go.  

 

Then move on and try a few drills to learn the swing as a whole, not in parts, for example the feet together drill and waking drill.  

 

I'm excited for you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Big money]

Thanks allfriday. Lesson 2 after the holidays.

ps. That video and links are way over complicated for me. The teacher told me just throw side arm low 20 yards for a while. Get used to the feels. One armed throw . 

 

 

[LeftyHawk]

My first question would be is what club are you trying to hit? I have encountered folks with similar problems from what you are describing. Pardon me if I'm off base here but it sounds like you're trying to run before you can walk. Which is why I ask what club you are using? My approach is to get them swinging a wedge first, which ever wedge feels right to them, then some easy chips, direction and distance are irrelevant, all you're going for is feel, then as you start to groove the club  move up to the next  club. Direction comes later.

Hope this helps at least a little.

Chris 

[bens197]

Allfriday nailed it. I used to do something similar when I taught. I would have golfers throw a ball and then I would also use a tennis racket and have them hit a ball.

What happens when you put a club in someone’s hand? It’s moving and timing your muscles to hit a stationary object. It’s silly but it’s a real thing.

Another way to build on this motion is start with short chips.

Advance to pitches.

Move up to half swings with an 8ish iron.

Progressively move upwards and you can see the continuity.

I’m excited to hear your progress. This is an awesome lesson that just reinforces that you have what it takes to make a great swing.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Big money]

1 hour ago, LeftyHawk said:

My first question would be is what club are you trying to hit? I have encountered folks with similar problems from what you are describing. Pardon me if I'm off base here but it sounds like you're trying to run before you can walk. Which is why I ask what club you are using? My approach is to get them swinging a wedge first, which ever wedge feels right to them, then some easy chips, direction and distance are irrelevant, all you're going for is feel, then as you start to groove the club  move up to the next  club. Direction comes later.

Hope this helps at least a little.

Chris 

We were using an 8 iron right handed only. At the most 15-20 yard pitches one handed 

[bluesmandan76]

You’re releasing it early. People simply cannot believe and accept a correct release as being correct—it seems way too late and impossible, illogical. When you throw a ball you know how to release through the throw (i.e. the point of letting go). Into and through, not before or at. But with a club, people want all of their energy expended at or just before impact, when they need to be releasing after impact, not before. Why is this? The late/proper release feels like wasted energy, like all your power is happening after impact and is therefore wasted on air since the ball is already gone. So they never trust it and actually release it correctly. All the wrist angles and elbow angle are released before impact—because it is hard to trust the late release. You really have to feel like you’re holding all those angles and just barely beginning the release when impact happens. It’s tough to make yourself do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big money]

11 minutes ago, bluesmandan76 said:

You’re releasing it early. People simply cannot believe and accept a correct release as being correct—it seems way too late and impossible, illogical. When you throw a ball you know how to release through the throw (i.e. the point of letting go). Into and through, not before or at. But with a club, people want all of their energy expended at or just before impact, when they need to be releasing after impact, not before. Why is this? The late/proper release feels like wasted energy, like all your power is happening after impact and is therefore wasted on air since the ball is already gone. So they never trust it and actually release it correctly. All the wrist angles and elbow angle are released before impact—because it is hard to trust the late release. You really have to feel like you’re holding all those angles and just barely beginning the release when impact happens. It’s tough to make yourself do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. Feel like I would miss a real golf ball or shank it 

[silver & black]

7 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Or old muscle memory??

There is no such thing as muscle memory. Muscles have no memory. It is brain memory that makes things repeatable.

[LeftyHawk]

20 minutes ago, bluesmandan76 said:

You’re releasing it early. People simply cannot believe and accept a correct release as being correct—it seems way too late and impossible, illogical. When you throw a ball you know how to release through the throw (i.e. the point of letting go). Into and through, not before or at. But with a club, people want all of their energy expended at or just before impact, when they need to be releasing after impact, not before. Why is this? The late/proper release feels like wasted energy, like all your power is happening after impact and is therefore wasted on air since the ball is already gone. So they never trust it and actually release it correctly. All the wrist angles and elbow angle are released before impact—because it is hard to trust the late release. You really have to feel like you’re holding all those angles and just barely beginning the release when impact happens. It’s tough to make yourself do it.


Exactly....just keep trying, with my wedges it took almost 1000 shots before things started to come together.

Hang in there, you're on the right track, it'll take a little time to get to the station.

Chris

[tony@CIC]

There is no such thing as muscle memory. Muscles have no memory. It is brain memory that makes things repeatable.

Yup - spot on - I stand corrected. What people refer to muscle memory are the actions you've made your brain remember.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[PMookie]

Took an impromptu lesson last night. The instructor told me to throw a golf ball one armed (side armed) into the simulator screen.Pretending I was going to hit a golf ball on the ground. He recorded it and I had a perfect open body and bent right arm.He showed me the results and said I can physically do this. It was so simple and natural with no thoughts. Than he tried me take same motion with a golf club in my right arm only. Complete opposite, stalled body , extended arms , backing out flipping casting. Even he was stumped how I couldn’t replicate it with even one arm. Why does this happen? Is it lack of golf coordination? Or just some inner fear when it comes with golf and hitting a ball 

Look-up Mike Bender on Instagram. He teaches this swing motion, and has a bunch of drills to get it down, though the videos are of him teaching his students. One in particular gives an exceptional sense of what the feel is: he used a range bucket to teach getting the trail elbow where it should be. Really good stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Look-up Mike Bender on Instagram. He teaches this swing motion, and has a bunch of drills to get it down, though the videos are of him teaching his students. One in particular gives an exceptional sense of what the feel is: he used a range bucket to teach getting the trail elbow where it should be. Really good stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

There are some really good instructors around the web and YouTube but imo if someone is working with a pro already it’s best to stick with what that pro is saying and working on. Watching others could cause confusion and slow progress. 

[PING Apologist #9]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:57 AM, Big money said:

 Or just some inner fear when it comes with golf and hitting a ball 

I often hear that we as golfers, get too enamored with "hitting" the ball and I'm no exception . But when I get it right, the ball just happens to get in the way of the club you are swinging. How many of us have taken a practice cut that was perfect, step up to the ball and skull or duff the snot out of it??? Guilty! Stop thinking about the ball and just swing dammit!

[PMookie]

There are some really good instructors around the web and YouTube but imo if someone is working with a pro already it’s best to stick with what that pro is saying and working on. Watching others could cause confusion and slow progress. 

I can agree, but Bender has a drill for creating the feel of “skipping the rock”, which was where the disconnect has occurred. Finding other drills for the specific teaching point the coach suggests is key here. It’s not teaching a new method, or conflicting with what is being taught. Thanks, though!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[tony@CIC]

On 12/14/2018 at 10:57 AM, Big money said:

Took an impromptu lesson last night. The instructor told me to throw a golf ball one armed (side armed) into the simulator screen.Pretending I was going to hit a golf ball on the ground. He recorded it and I had a perfect open body and bent right arm.He showed me the results and said I can physically do this. It was so simple and natural with no thoughts. Than he tried me take same motion with a golf club in my right arm only. Complete opposite, stalled body , extended arms , backing out flipping casting. Even he was stumped how I couldn’t replicate it with even one arm. Why does this happen? Is it lack of golf coordination? Or just some inner fear when it comes with golf and hitting a ball 

Maybe this video might help. The topic is hitting the ball further but in the first few minutes of the video he does talk about the proper swing and uses the "throwing the ball' analogy. 

 

 

[russtopherb]

Like many others have noted, the drill of tossing the ball or "skipping the stone" has your body thinking about a target out in the distance, and your body naturally reacts to throwing sidearm with a fluid motion. When you put a club in your hands and see a stationary ball, your body just wants to HIT THE BALL and you don't think about the actual target, your body focuses on that little white ball and that's it - everything goes sideways.

It's tough to overcome - I was a hitter of the ball for a long time. I still do it sometimes too. Don't be perplexed, just work with what the pro is giving you and don't think too much about it. 

[fixyurdivot]

On 12/14/2018 at 4:30 PM, silver & black said:

There is no such thing as muscle memory. Muscles have no memory. It is brain memory that makes things repeatable.

A play on words perhaps, but I do think you can "tune" certain muscle groups to improve and more reliably repeat a particular range of motion. 

Interesting thread @Big money.  Sounds like awkward and esoteric as it is, this could be a big change to your game.  I'm often leery of these new-fangled approaches to traditional methods of instruction.  Some of the training aids shared on Golf Channel for instance are just goofy looking IMO.  But that's just my old school self shining through.  Good luck.

[Big money]

This is just another example about over emphasis on a particular look versus functional.I would place a bet that 80% or more of the people who post here would never even get close what this pro is teaching.Ive played with low digit handicaps that early extend and stop turning thru the ball.The one variable they have is a consistent miss.And a top level short game.No matter what swing we have. Over time you will develop a consistent miss pattern. Just hit tons of balls and learn what your miss is.How you do it isn’t that much of importantance unless you are in tour. Or pursuing a career in golf 

[fixyurdivot]

18 hours ago, Edveed said:

This is just another example about over emphasis on a particular look versus functional.I would place a bet that 80% or more of the people who post here would never even get close what this pro is teaching.Ive played with low digit handicaps that early extend and stop turning thru the ball.The one variable they have is a consistent miss.And a top level short game.No matter what swing we have. Over time you will develop a consistent miss pattern. Just hit tons of balls and learn what your miss is.How you do it isn’t that much of importantance unless you are in tour. Or pursuing a career in golf 

+1 on that.  Yesterday I played with a new guy in our rotations that shot a 73.  He said he's an 8 handicap.  The slowest take away, pause, and slight drop of the right shoulder I've ever seen.  I told him were I to try that, I'd likely fall over .  He stated that he battled for years trying to throttle his fast back swing, which was cause for poor hits and consistency, and developed this swing about a decade ago.  

[cksurfdude]

+1 on that.  Yesterday I played with a new guy in our rotations that shot a 73.  He said he's an 8 handicap.  The slowest take away, pause, and slight drop of the right shoulder I've ever seen.  I told him were I to try that, I'd likely fall over .  He stated that he battled for years trying to throttle his fast back swing, which was cause for poor hits and consistency, and developed this swing about a decade ago.  

Interesting - just a few days ago I saw my instructor and one of the things he wants me to do is something closer to a low-slow takeaway ..... said many problems in the swing - including inconsistent hits - start from an improper backswing.