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Must Read: GolfSpyT on Driver Face Thickness & Driver Innovation


jlukes
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Last time I went to Club Champion, they spoke extensively about how TrackMan cannot accurately detect club-head speed. Knowing that, it was impossible to therefore get an accurate smash. I had a number of 1.51 and 1.52 recordings, and some of those didn’t go as far as ones with similar swing speed and lower smash.

Funny thing is about TrackMan as well is the “all zeroes” that occur. Path, face angle, etc. One can have all zeroes and record a fade, a draw, and even a straight shot.... Yeah, no doubt that the OEMs know how to get some quality numbers in fittings, and I bet they head that direction. Their issue will be when folks get to the course and see NOTHING like what the saw in the fitting.

It’s going to be curious if places like Club Champion, Tour Spec, etc, end-up taking advantage of all of this, or somehow go the “honesty” route.....

 

 

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Fwy:  :callaway-small: Epic Speed 4w, MMT 80X

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

Last time I went to Club Champion, they spoke extensively about how TrackMan cannot accurately detect club-head speed. Knowing that, it was impossible to therefore get an accurate smash. I had a number of 1.51 and 1.52 recordings, and some of those didn’t go as far as ones with similar swing speed and lower smash.

Funny thing is about TrackMan as well is the “all zeroes” that occur. Path, face angle, etc. One can have all zeroes and record a fade, a draw, and even a straight shot.... Yeah, no doubt that the OEMs know how to get some quality numbers in fittings, and I bet they head that direction. Their issue will be when folks get to the course and see NOTHING like what the saw in the fitting.

It’s going to be curious if places like Club Champion, Tour Spec, etc, end-up taking advantage of all of this, or somehow go the “honesty” route.....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

This is why I prefer outdoor fittings. Can see the ball flight and those who want to compare numbers with ball flight can.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is why I prefer outdoor fittings. Can see the ball flight and those who want to compare numbers with ball flight can.

I think the only problem with an outdoor fitting would be hitting range balls. Yea you can see a general ball flight but unless you’re hitting your own gamers you might still see something different on the course. 

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

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41 minutes ago, Mr_Theoo said:

I think the only problem with an outdoor fitting would be hitting range balls. Yea you can see a general ball flight but unless you’re hitting your own gamers you might still see something different on the course. 

Not in my experience. Imo it would have to be really old range balls. Im picky about where I go to demo days or fittings to avoid said bad range balls 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Interesting stuff. Thanks, jlukes, for putting it all together. When that stuff is in tweets, I often miss some of it.

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I always try to remember that I'm not good enough to get mad!

 

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Tony is the best. The things he knows about the golf club industry are unbelievable, and it's amazing that he is so honest and open all the time. Gives all of us spies a greater insight into what's going on. In short, he's smart, he's a bit fiery, and I'm glad he's ours.

 

Of course, sometimes I picture him like this... Image result for tinfoil hat

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WITB

 

Driver- PING G400 LST w/ Project X Evenflow Black

Fwy- TM Aeroburner 16.5HL

Irons- Callaway Steelhead XR (3-PW)

Wedges- Callaway MD3 (50,54,58)

Putter- Cleveland TFI Satin Cero

Ball-  Snell MTB-X

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Not in my experience. Imo it would have to be really old range balls. Im picky about where I go to demo days or fittings to avoid said bad range balls 

In general everything I have read indicates that even good range balls perform differently than premium balls. Shorter off driver, inconsistent with irons, and less wedge spin.

Although I have been at a private club that had NXT Tour practice balls on the range and pro V practice balls on the chipping green.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
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Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
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9 minutes ago, cnosil said:


In general everything I have read indicates that even good range balls perform differently than premium balls. Shorter off driver, inconsistent with irons, and less wedge spin.

Although I have been at a private club that had NXT Tour practice balls on the range and pro V practice balls on the chipping green.

And with trackman it can be normalized to account for range balls which my old instructor and most of the fitters around here do so you get to see what the numbers are for a prov

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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And with trackman it can be normalized to account for range balls which my old instructor and most of the fitters around here do so you get to see what the numbers are for a prov


Understand, but I would still be concerned about inconsistencies in actual performance and wonder if it was the launch monitor, club, or ball.

As long as the person doing the evaluation understands the constraints I think a fitting indoors or outdoors can provide good results. It is hard for a lot of us to get past the see it to believe it mentality.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

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16 hours ago, Mr_Theoo said:

I think the only problem with an outdoor fitting would be hitting range balls. Yea you can see a general ball flight but unless you’re hitting your own gamers you might still see something different on the course. 

 

15 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not in my experience. Imo it would have to be really old range balls. Im picky about where I go to demo days or fittings to avoid said bad range balls 

I think we're both fortunate that the place your talking about has very well trained Trackman PGA pro and he uses ProV's or at the very least NXT's  if I recall correctly in hit fitting and lessons.  

:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

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:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

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:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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27 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


Understand, but I would still be concerned about inconsistencies in actual performance and wonder if it was the launch monitor, club, or ball.

As long as the person doing the evaluation understands the constraints I think a fitting indoors or outdoors can provide good results. It is hard for a lot of us to get past the see it to believe it mentality.

 

The mind is a weird thing and it can play tricks.

im not against indoor fittings but I would lean towards a facility that uses gc2 of quad.  

For me I’ve seen similar numbers in trackman using range balls outside and prov1 during indoor lessons.

With golf especially on the course having so many variables it’s not a true apples to apples comparison imo between fittings and the course.  My goal in a fitting is to ensure the combo I go with optimizes launch characteristics and maximizes both carry and roll out with driver. For irons it’s about carry and stopping power

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

 

I think we're both fortunate that the place your talking about has very well trained Trackman PGA pro and he uses ProV's or at the very least NXT's  if I recall correctly in hit fitting and lessons.  

Yes we are. We also have the luxury of some other reputable indoor and outdoor fitting places as well as oem reps that are top notch.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes we are. We also have the luxury of some other reputable indoor and outdoor fitting places as well as oem reps that are top notch.

yeah, along those lines.  I urge anyone to go to one of the Titleist Ball Fittings if they pop up in your area, you get to outdoor shots with a driver, 7 iron an wedge with ProV's on trackman.  That will give you a very good idea of everything you need to know...both from a club and ball standpoint. 

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:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

With a lot of new equipment being announced this month, this thread needs a bump

:ping-small: G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X

:ping-small: G425 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X

:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X

:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 - Tour AD 95X

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:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50F - 54S - 60D

:EVNROLL: ER1v #CustomER

:titelist-small: ProV1

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Excellent info, thanks for sharing! I wish I could force all of my friends to read this before they go club shopping for the next 17 yards.


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:cobra-small: KING Forged Tec 5-GW - Nippon Modus 120x | :cobra-small: KING MIM Black 52.12C, 56.10V, 60.04W - Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

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10 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Excellent info, thanks for sharing! I wish I could force all of my friends to read this before they go club shopping for the next 17 yards.


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Ain't that the truth. 

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:ping-small: G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X

:ping-small: G425 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X

:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X

:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 - Tour AD 95X

:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW OBAN CT 115X(-)

:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50F - 54S - 60D

:EVNROLL: ER1v #CustomER

:titelist-small: ProV1

 

 

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