Iron dilemma ***UPDATE***

[LeftyHawk]

Ok, here's my dilemma, I'm trying to zero in on what I need to set the lie on my irons. Based on my height and wrist to floor measurement I need about 2 to 4 degrees upright. I hit shots on a simulator yesterday. The 4 degree went consistently right of the center line. The 2 degree went left, both were off by approximately 5 yards.

Then I hit a few off a lie board and according to that I need 2 degrees down. That blew my mind.

How do y'all dial in the lie on your irons?

Chris

[RickyBobby_PR]

Wrist to floor and height are static measurements and aren’t effective at all in determine what’s needed imo. I haven’t seen a fitter including ping who were pretty much the biggest pusher if that use static fittings.

dynamic fitting is much better way. Lie boards are ok but they tend to straighten out ball flight.

did you hit any balls with a 2* flat iron? If so what type of ball flight were you seeing?

i recommend getting fit by a trustworthy fitter to make sure you get the right set up

[Mr. 82]

Put tape on the bottom of a 7 iron and hit it off of the board until the mark is perfect. PING will then build your irons off of whatever color you end up with from the tape. As long as you can repeat your swing consistently it shouldn't be hard to get fit with the proper lie angle.

[tony@CIC]

Put tape on the bottom of a 7 iron and hit it off of the board until the mark is perfect. PING will then build your irons off of whatever color you end up with from the tape. As long as you can repeat your swing consistently it shouldn't be hard to get fit with the proper lie angle.

GSwag do tell us more about the "tape on the bottom until the mark is perfect"


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[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

GSwag do tell us more about the "tape on the bottom until the mark is perfect"


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I’m curious about the perfect comment to. Most fitters that use lie board and/or lie tape only need 2-3 swings to get a good feel for what the tape shows

[dhartmann34]

I got fit... And that told me.

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[Rtracymog]

The static measurements are just a starting point. The Ping color code system works maybe half of the time. It’s better for length than lie. Put impact tape on the face of your 7 iron. Then draw a vertical line on the golf ball and align it to a target. When you hit the middle of the face and the line on the impact tape is vertical, you know that your length and lie are good.


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[LeftyHawk]

So, I should trust the lie board?

[LeftyHawk]

3 minutes ago, Rtracymog said:

The static measurements are just a starting point. The Ping color code system works maybe half of the time. It’s better for length than lie. Put impact tape on the face of your 7 iron. Then draw a vertical line on the golf ball and align it to a target. When you hit the middle of the face and the line on the impact tape is vertical, you know that your length and lie are good.

This sounds doable... thanks

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, LeftyHawk said:

So, I should trust the lie board?

More so than the static fitting you did but I would find a fitter with a trained eye that will use your swing mechanics and club delivery to get you in right length, loft and lie as well as shaft abs head

[tony@CIC]

GSwag's comment got me to do a little quick research:

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/features/the-game/how-does-lie-angle-affect-golf-shots-66452

I think this is something you should know before you go to a fitter to make sure they're doing more than a wrist to floor measure.


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[Mr. 82]

GSwag do tell us more about the "tape on the bottom until the mark is perfect"


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It's how I've been fitted by PING for my irons the last couple of times I've bought them (2003 and 2017). They have you hit a 7 iron with the standard lie angle, and see where your hit mark is on the tape. Whether it's on the heel or toe, they adjust the color of the iron to adjust to where your mark was. Usually by the 3rd or 4th different lie angle your mark is perfect on the middle of the soul of the club. Then when you think you have it, you hit the same one at least 5 more times to verify that it's consistent for the perfect mark. But like I mentioned, this method will only work if the swing is consistent and repeating. But that's why you hit at least 5 more shots with what you think is the perfect lie angle, to verify the swing repeats itself.

To me it's a great system, and it works for me. But I'll be the first to tell you that it may not work for everyone, or satisfy the demands of every golfer. It also won't help you pick the correct shaft or flex. But the PING color system works great for me for getting the right lie angle on your irons.

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, GSwag said:

It's how I've been fitted by PING for my irons the last couple of times I've bought them (2003 and 2017). They have you hit a 7 iron with the standard lie angle, and see where your hit mark is on the tape. Whether it's on the heel or toe, they adjust the color of the iron to adjust to where your mark was. Usually by the 3rd or 4th different lie angle your mark is perfect on the middle of the soul of the club. Then when you think you have it, you hit the same one at least 5 more times to verify that it's consistent for the perfect mark. But like I mentioned, this method will only work if the swing is consistent and repeating. But that's why you hit at least 5 more shots with what you think is the perfect lie angle, to verify the swing repeats itself.

To me it's a great system, and it works for me. But I'll be the first to tell you that it may not work for everyone, or satisfy the demands of every golfer. It also won't help you pick the correct shaft or flex. But the PING color system works great for me for getting the right lie angle on your irons.

It also requires the availability of 1) having ping irons to test 2) all ping color codes in the iron of choice which isn’t the case for most ping fitting carts or how to use a longer or shorter shaft to mimick the ping color code one is trying to get too.  3) because of 1 and 2 would require a ping rep with fitting cart. With that said it’s not necessary to go thru that whole process, using lie tape and a board as the OP did also works because it shows what is needed on the bottom of the tape and if something isn’t right when an order arrives (which most brands have a 2-3* tolerance on builds) it’s also not something every ping fitter does. I did a ping fitting with two guys from their AZ HQ in the summer and watched them do several others and not once did they use a lie board or lie tape. The ping reps in this area don’t either.

And if one is trying another brand most of them only have standard, 1&2* up and 1-2*. If someone is in the 3-4* range they won’t get to test those and would need to trust the tape.

your experience is shy getting fit by a reputable person is the best way to go imo

[PMookie]

As fitters day these days, “Lie boards do just that: they lie.”


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[Peaksy68]

I'm one that lie boards aren't necessarily accurate for, as I don't swing normally when hitting of them. Perhaps my history of wrist injuries plays on my subconscious, but i have always struggled with them. My daughter on the other hand would cut her handicap in half if she could carry a lie board around with her, she flushes it off the board. 

[Mr. 82]

It also requires the availability of 1) having ping irons to test 2) all ping color codes in the iron of choice which isn’t the case for most ping fitting carts or how to use a longer or shorter shaft to mimick the ping color code one is trying to get too.  3) because of 1 and 2 would require a ping rep with fitting cart. With that said it’s not necessary to go thru that whole process, using lie tape and a board as the OP did also works because it shows what is needed on the bottom of the tape and if something isn’t right when an order arrives (which most brands have a 2-3* tolerance on builds) it’s also not something every ping fitter does. I did a ping fitting with two guys from their AZ HQ in the summer and watched them do several others and not once did they use a lie board or lie tape. The ping reps in this area don’t either.
And if one is trying another brand most of them only have standard, 1&2* up and 1-2*. If someone is in the 3-4* range they won’t get to test those and would need to trust the tape.
your experience is shy getting fit by a reputable person is the best way to go imo

I appreciate the additional info. I’ll be the first to tell you that my knowledge of custom fittings is extremely limited at best. I will say that my 2003 fittings (irons, driver and putter) were all done by different PING reps at a local driving range. My fitting last year was done at Edwin Watts, because my access to the real fitters and tech is limited locally to Edwin Watts. Tallahassee is not known for anything related to golf, unless you count that Brooks Koepka played on the FSU golf team.


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[MattF]

Get a piece of masking tape and put it on the face of your club.

Draw a straight line on the ball with a black sharpie. 

Place the ball with the line vertical and hit the ball.

Look at the line transferred to the masking tape. If it leans towards the toe, you need more upright. If it leans towards the heel, you need to go flatter. When it's vertical, you're good.

[gaussman1]

Get a piece of masking tape and put it on the face of your club.
Draw a straight line on the ball with a black sharpie. 
Place the ball with the line vertical and hit the ball.
Look at the line transferred to the masking tape. If it leans towards the toe, you need more upright. If it leans towards the heel, you need to go flatter. When it's vertical, you're good.

I'm impossible to fit on the lie board. I deliver the club a bit under the plane so make anything look too flat on the lie board. In reality I need a slightly flatter lie to match my delivery but the board always says to go the other direction.

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[MattF]

1 minute ago, gaussman1 said:

I'm impossible to fit on the lie board. I deliver the club a bit under the plane so make anything look too flat on the lie board. In reality I need a slightly flatter lie to match my delivery but the board always says to go the other direction.

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My way doesn't use a lie board, only masking tape on the FACE of the club and a sharpie. I know lie boards lie.

[tony@CIC]

45 minutes ago, MattF said:

Get a piece of masking tape and put it on the face of your club.

Draw a straight line on the ball with a black sharpie. 

Place the ball with the line vertical and hit the ball.

Look at the line transferred to the masking tape. If it leans towards the toe, you need more upright. If it leans towards the heel, you need to go flatter. When it's vertical, you're good.

Matt, doesn't an inconsistent swing, resulting in toe or heel hits distort the information?  When I'm out on the range I use impact tape (or foot spray) to work on hitting the ball in the sweet spot.  My instructor told me that when I consistently hit the ball in the center and it goes somewhere other than straight, then it's a lie issue. 

BTW this is a great discussion!  

[MattF]

Honestly mate, I couldn't tell you but I imagine it would. But, I would think that if you're checking your lie with the method I supplied, you'd be concentrating on that so your strikes should be pretty much centred as opposed to actually playing and having a brain explosion like so many of us do.

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Matt, doesn't an inconsistent swing, resulting in toe or heel hits distort the information?  When I'm out on the range I use impact tape (or foot spray) to work on hitting the ball in the sweet spot.  My instructor told me that when I consistently hit the ball in the center and it goes somewhere other than straight, then it's a lie issue. 

BTW this is a great discussion!  

One can hit the sweet spot and have an open or club face that will send the ball offline and/or start it on either side of target lines and then curve back in.  

[tony@CIC]

5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

One can hit the sweet spot and have an open or club face that will send the ball offline and/or start it on either side of target lines and then curve back in.  

Yup - that makes sense. But if you strike it in the middle with an open or closed face isn't that a grip adjustment (strong or weak)  vs. a change in the club's lie? 

[cnosil]

Matt, doesn't an inconsistent swing, resulting in toe or heel hits distort the information?  When I'm out on the range I use impact tape (or foot spray) to work on hitting the ball in the sweet spot.  My instructor told me that when I consistently hit the ball in the center and it goes somewhere other than straight, then it's a lie issue. 
BTW this is a great discussion!  

I think people may swings are more consistent than they give themselves credit for. That is why even high handicap players should get fit.

Just another though When fitting for lie angle you need to use the clubs you are goin to be using and not just say I am x degrees flat or upright. Why?

1. Standard lie varies between manufacturer and even club line. So 1 degree flat on one club may be 1 degree upright on another club.

2. Shaft and headweight will impact club droop which will impact the lie angle you need

[cnosil]

Yup - that makes sense. But if you strike it in the middle with an open or closed face isn't that a grip adjustment (strong or weak)  vs. a change in the club's lie? 

Not necessarily a grip change. Open or closed face to the path may be what you are trying to do to work the ball. Or it may be that you aren’t setting up with a square club face. In general , you would need to have a more closed clubface to stop pushing the ball, which really isn’t a grip change but just a rotation if the club using the same grip.

[gaussman1]

My way doesn't use a lie board, only masking tape on the FACE of the club and a sharpie. I know lie boards lie.

Yeah I get it, I'm agreeing with you on the ineffective nature of lie boards

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[RickyBobby_PR]

29 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Yup - that makes sense. But if you strike it in the middle with an open or closed face isn't that a grip adjustment (strong or weak)  vs. a change in the club's lie? 

 

22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Not necessarily a grip change. Open or closed face to the path may be what you are trying to do to work the ball. Or it may be that you aren’t setting up with a square club face. In general , you would need to have a more closed clubface to stop pushing the ball, which really isn’t a grip change but just a rotation if the club using the same grip.

Cnosil touched on it. That’s going to be a path issue or rotation issue.  A number of things could cause is like grip or sequencing.  I have a tendency to get stuck and come to far from the inside. When I’m off it’s a block or push.

[bens197]

I’m gonna ask that you take your foot off the gas and listen to the engine for a second.

Why are you fitting yourself? Are you located somewhere that doesn’t offer custom fit clubs?


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[tony@CIC]

Guys thanks for the feedback. I don't have an issue as the ball seems to go where I want it to - although never as long as I'd like it to be. I was just trying to understand the dynamic fitting a bit better,  since I was fit for my Pings and recently for the C300's it was a static fit. 

[tony@CIC]

3 minutes ago, bens197 said:

I’m gonna ask that you take your foot off the gas and listen to the engine for a second.

Why are you fitting yourself? Are you located somewhere that doesn’t offer custom fit clubs?


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Nope!  I was fit by my instructor - as I just said in a previous post it was to better understand dynamic fitting.