Iron dilemma ***UPDATE***

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, tony@CIC said:

Guys thanks for the feedback. I don't have an issue as the ball seems to go where I want it to - although never as long as I'd like it to be. I was just trying to understand the dynamic fitting a bit better,  since I was fit for my Pings and recently for the C300's it was a static fit. 

A few questions about your distance issues.

1) is the “never as long as I would like it to be” based on wanting to hit it as far as others you see it play with or is it this club used to go X distance and it’s not going that far anymore?

2) what is your contact like? Low on the face, heel or toe miss most of the time?

3) what’s your divot like? Shallow, deep, more toe than heel dig, vice versa or even?

[tony@CIC]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

A few questions about your distance issues.

1) is the “never as long as I would like it to be” based on wanting to hit it as far as others you see it play with or is it this club used to go X distance and it’s not going that far anymore?

2) what is your contact like? Low on the face, heel or toe miss most of the time?

3) what’s your divot like? Shallow, deep, more toe than heel dig, vice versa or even?

I think it's #4, I've gotten older and my SS is not where I'd like it to be anymore. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I think it's #4, I've gotten older and my SS is not where I'd like it to be anymore. 

Forgot that one. The c300s should help a little with that. 

[bens197]

Nope!  I was fit by my instructor - as I just said in a previous post it was to better understand dynamic fitting. 

Sorry I missed that! Hard to keep up with all this sometimes.

Glad you’re getting the answers your seeking.


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[TR1PTIK]

Good discussion here. I've been hearing the whole "lie board lie" saying for a while now, but that's what my PGA Professional and my preferred fitter both use. It doesn't seem like it's ever been a problem - certainly worked to correct the pull I was seeing with my wedges which were 4* off from where I needed them! I don't have any of the tools to adjust lie angle at home, but I'd certainly be curious to try the tape on the face of the club trick to see if things have changed much.

[LeftyHawk]

Being in the middle of farm country I'm trying to dial in my irons myself. I was able to get my driver dialed in on my own with the help of books by Sam Snead, Bobby Jones and others. I used to slice the heck out of my drives, took me one full season but I now hit it fairly consistently straight.

So I decided that this winter I would dial in my irons. With some reasearch, and with the helpful information here I'm confident I can conclusively find what I need. My only issue is actually getting them bent to what I need. 

With 2 degrees up I'm consistently 5 yards left, 4 degrees up and it's 5 yards right. The lie board indicated I need 2 degrees down from neutral. That is quite confusing to me. More testing is in order. I plan to look into the 2 degrees down just to see where it goes.

Thanks to everyone for your input, it's great information and I'm learning a lot.

Chris

[GB13]

35 minutes ago, LeftyHawk said:

Being in the middle of farm country I'm trying to dial in my irons myself. I was able to get my driver dialed in on my own with the help of books by Sam Snead, Bobby Jones and others. I used to slice the heck out of my drives, took me one full season but I now hit it fairly consistently straight.

So I decided that this winter I would dial in my irons. With some reasearch, and with the helpful information here I'm confident I can conclusively find what I need. My only issue is actually getting them bent to what I need. 

With 2 degrees up I'm consistently 5 yards left, 4 degrees up and it's 5 yards right. The lie board indicated I need 2 degrees down from neutral. That is quite confusing to me. More testing is in order. I plan to look into the 2 degrees down just to see where it goes.

Thanks to everyone for your input, it's great information and I'm learning a lot.

Chris

Based on everything you've said, 3° up should be perfect. I definitely don't think 2 down will fit you at all. You must deliver the club differently on the lie board. For me, I play 3° up (which is right for me) as well but on a lie board, I need 6° up because I deliver the club differently on a lie board. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

42 minutes ago, LeftyHawk said:

Being in the middle of farm country I'm trying to dial in my irons myself. I was able to get my driver dialed in on my own with the help of books by Sam Snead, Bobby Jones and others. I used to slice the heck out of my drives, took me one full season but I now hit it fairly consistently straight.

So I decided that this winter I would dial in my irons. With some reasearch, and with the helpful information here I'm confident I can conclusively find what I need. My only issue is actually getting them bent to what I need. 

With 2 degrees up I'm consistently 5 yards left, 4 degrees up and it's 5 yards right. The lie board indicated I need 2 degrees down from neutral. That is quite confusing to me. More testing is in order. I plan to look into the 2 degrees down just to see where it goes.

Thanks to everyone for your input, it's great information and I'm learning a lot.

Chris

That is very weird. The more up the further left it should go if 2 up is going 5 yards right. Also keep in mind there’s no standard for what standard loft is. Each brand and each line from a brand will be different. 

[LeftyHawk]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That is very weird. The more up the further left it should go if 2 up is going 5 yards right. Also keep in mind there’s no standard for what standard loft is. Each brand and each line from a brand will be different

I'm a lefty, that might explain a little....

[LeftyHawk]

Plus I'm a little OCD when it comes to data, 5 or so hits off a lie board for me is not near enough data, to need a few hundred shots before I draw a conclusion. So like I have done with the 2 & 4 degree upright I'm going to get a 7 iron with the same shaft with 2 degrees down and see what results that yeilds. My suspicion is the results will be further off target than the other 2, but it's something I need to examine as a possibility due to the lie board data.

Plus it's just plan fun exploring the different results I come up with.

Chris

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, LeftyHawk said:

I'm a lefty, that might explain a little....

Both upright lofts should go the same direction. One just further offline than the other. Also weird that going 2 flat fixes it. Sounds like you have a path it face to path issue.

[null]

Ball flight matters most. If you are fading the ball already, you don't want to go flatter.

 

I deliver my irons slightly toe down but hit draws. Therefore, it was recommended that I not get my irons bent upright because that would cause over draws.

 

[Mr. 82]

5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I think it's #4, I've gotten older and my SS is not where I'd like it to be anymore. 

welcome to my world.  

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, LeftyHawk said:

I'm a lefty, that might explain a little....

 

5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I think it's #4, I've gotten older and my SS is not where I'd like it to be anymore. 

OK so I forgot that one. For me it's a combination of #4 & #5 (being a lefty) 

[Kor.A.Door]

I don’t care what the lie angle on my clubs are, I mean I care, but I base my lie angles on my ball flight. I do not want to fade the ball, so I set my clubs up so the ball doesn’t go left, I want either straight or slight draw, for me, 2° Upright works for most clubs that I purchase, I will adjust if 2° is wrong. This way, if the ball does go left I know it’s a swing issue not a club issue. Find the ball flight you want, and forget about boards. It’s really doesn’t cost much tohave a n entire set bent. 

[LeftyHawk]

So, do y'all bend the clubs yourself or have someone do it? If you bend them yourself, what do you bend them with?

Chris

[null]

So, do y'all bend the clubs yourself or have someone do it? If you bend them yourself, what do you bend them with?
Chris

Unless you have professional bending equipment and know how to do it, you should take them somewhere that knows what they're doing

[GB13]

23 minutes ago, LeftyHawk said:

So, do y'all bend the clubs yourself or have someone do it? If you bend them yourself, what do you bend them with?

Chris

Take them to a place that knows what they are doing. If you do it yourself, there is a decent chance you'll break a club head. 

[bens197]

So, do y'all bend the clubs yourself or have someone do it? If you bend them yourself, what do you bend them with?
Chris

Club sits in for lack of a better word, a vice.

Most good techs tape the hosel to protect it from unnecessary damage and then use a persuader bar to bend to the effective loft and lie.

It’s a cool process and a skill that’s definitely honed over time. Be careful to not hand your clubs to the over-enthusiastic kid to says he can do it.


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[Bucky CC]

If was just at a Club Champion getting fit for new irons last week and they used tape and a lie board. After two swings we looked at the tape, adjusted the irons 2 degrees upright and then repeated the process. It was great to try the upright irons after they adjusted and actually see the results off the lie board again.

All of that being said, I’m going to wait until the spring and go through another fitting outdoors to make sure my swing on real grass matches my swing on the artificial turf. Plus I’d love to see the actual ball flight and not just a simulator screen.


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[Kor.A.Door]

1 hour ago, LeftyHawk said:

So, do y'all bend the clubs yourself or have someone do it? If you bend them yourself, what do you bend them with?

Chris

I take them to the shop to have them bent, with the proper equipment, it only takes them about 30 minutes, I just wander around and look at stuff while I wait. I think it cost me about 35 bucks or so for the set. 

[GB13]

2 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

I take them to the shop to have them bent, with the proper equipment, it only takes them about 30 minutes, I just wander around and look at stuff while I wait. I think it cost me about 35 bucks or so for the set. 

If I get 30 minutes to walk around the golf shop, it'll cost a lot more than $35.

[Kor.A.Door]

1 minute ago, GB13 said:

If I get 30 minutes to walk around the golf shop, it'll cost a lot more than $35.

True, what you do is look around, then buy a glove of something like that as you leave, that way you still bought something, but it’s somwthing that you can use instead just buying stuff 

[revkev]

I got fit... And that told me.

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Ditto -


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[fixyurdivot]

In 1988 my "fitting" involved wrsit measurement and lie board.  This past February at a Ping Demo, same thing but also a club head speed measurement.  This past summer, an iron fitting involved wrist measurement, lie board, and LM data (lots of it).  The results from all three fittings, spanning a 30 year period, were the same; 2 degree upright, green dot.  So my conclusion is that Pings system is either consistently correct or consistently wrong.  

[cnosil]

.  So my conclusion is that Pings system is either consistently correct or consistently wrong.  

And that you have built your swing to work with that setup and you have remained consistent.

I don’t think anyone questions static fitting as a starting point. But for every person that it fits perfectly, There is another that needs adjustment based on how the deliver the club back to the ball. I am pretty sure that Ping even says that it is a starting point.

[RickyBobby_PR]

24 minutes ago, cnosil said:

And that you have built your swing to work with that setup and you have remained consistent.

I don’t think anyone questions static fitting as a starting point. But for every person that it fits perfectly, There is another that needs adjustment based on how the deliver the club back to the ball. I am pretty sure that Ping even says that it is a starting point.

Agree. The dynamic part of the swing has affected some more than others compared to the static measurements at the start. My old fitter has won ping fitter of the year a few times. We had a conversation a couple times over the years and based in ping he’s supposed to be +1/4” and blue dot but in all his fittings he is std length and black dot. In his non ping fittings he’s std length and whatever lie adjustment to match ping black dot.  He used to always do the static fitting first and then he changed the last couple years he was here to doing a dynamic fitting first then after using Mizuno shaft optimizer, getting the right lie angle and golfer dialed in he would do the static portion to explain tonthe customer the process and compare the dynamic vs static. The only thing he really used static for was grip size and he would let customer determine if they wanted to go with that recommendation or were they more comfortable with the standard grip size

[LeftyHawk]

Finally got time to hit the range to test the 2 clubs. To quickly recap I'm trying to figure out what lie I need for my irons. According to the lie board I need 2 degrees negative, but based on my old set of irons which were standard lie I figured I needed 2 degrees up. The pictures tell all. Thanks to the suggestions from everyone on how to test the lie.

Both clubs are Ping G15 with a stiff shaft, 7 irons. The one with the little Mark in the upper right corner is an orange dot (2 degrees negative) the other is a green dot ( 2 degrees up).

So in my case the lie board lied!!!