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On Tour This Week-Sentry Tournament of Champions

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25 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Pelz did his in 1990

I believe in reality this rule will actually slow down play. Instead of taking the flag out once per hole and replacing it there is the potential for numerous pin pulling and replacing. One guy wants it in the next guy wants it out. 

Everything I have seen and heard is that 95% of the time leaving the pin in will help. There are instances when this is not the case but they are far fewer than the advantage gained. So why did the USGA state when they made the rule change that there is no advantage to leaving the flag in? Also if there is truly an advantage does the USGA come up with a standard flag stick diameter to mediate advantage?

I've heard that Pelz will be releasing new information in the next month or two.  Even his older research was done with a "roller", he wasn't looking at balls that were bounding, just at different rolling speeds.  If MGS is indeed studying this, and Pelz is doing more work, that would make 4 or 5 new studies underway.  I think we'll know a lot more before too long.

For speed of play, I think after we're all adjusted to the change, there won't be a big difference.  In the short term, I agree, differing choices may have the flag going in and back out and back in and.... on a lot of holes.

As for what the USGA will do, I don't know.  They're on record as saying that the change will have no effect, so research showing a statistical effect might make them rethink the change.  and there IS a standard for flagsticks, no greater than 0.75 inches diameter, from the base to at least 3 inches above the green surface.

And I'm with @revkev, I'll leave it in most of the time, for as long as I'm allowed to do that.

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10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've heard that Pelz will be releasing new information in the next month or two.  Even his older research was done with a "roller", he wasn't looking at balls that were bounding, just at different rolling speeds.  If MGS is indeed studying this, and Pelz is doing more work, that would make 4 or 5 new studies underway.  I think we'll know a lot more before too long.

For speed of play, I think after we're all adjusted to the change, there won't be a big difference.  In the short term, I agree, differing choices may have the flag going in and back out and back in and.... on a lot of holes.

As for what the USGA will do, I don't know.  They're on record as saying that the change will have no effect, so research showing a statistical effect might make them rethink the change.  and there IS a standard for flagsticks, no greater than 0.75 inches diameter, from the base to at least 3 inches above the green surface.

And I'm with @revkev, I'll leave it in most of the time, for as long as I'm allowed to do that.

Wouldn't you think that before they released this rule for play that the USGA would have done studies or had them done to prove that leaving it in has little or not effect?  They had plenty of time!  Clearly, the rule was changed in the '60s for some reason... most likely because they found that it was an advantage to leave it in.  Why else would they do it?

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Great.  It looks like Mr. “I am Too good to explain things to you” “you wouldn’t understand” is only mastering his science more.  Perfect.  Another year of terrible pressers, and pouty attitude when he is off.  Wonder if he will throw the entire bag down the range at the open this time.

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Getting back to the tournament I’m seeing lots of different shots. Course is set up perfectly IMO


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Woodland lighting it up. Wilson has got to be loving this. I’m sure he is too.

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He's wearing the WS logo on his hat proudly


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“Stimp meter readings on the Plantation Course are about as relevant as driving accuracy stats on tour.” Mark Rolfing - have to love that quote.

 

 

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Its not a penalty if you correct it before you hit your shot.  And back to the previous thing about getting used to stuff, I remember when we had to drop over our shoulder.  When that rule changed, dropping from shoulder height with your arm to the side or in front looked really weird.  I do agree that the knee-high drop looks a little awkward, and felt funny when I played on Sunday.


I was not born until the 70’s so all I know is flag out :)


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40 minutes ago, Jmikecpa said:

 


I was not born until the 70’s so all I know is flag out :)


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'69 myself, and same here, ditto.

But this "flag-in" rule to me has all the earmarks of being a rule that to me, mean that will quickly go away...Especially as far as the "Tour" is concerned. Too many flaws and things I think will be interpreted as "illegal" soon enough as soon as the abuse of this comes about. And I know it will be abused to the players' advantage. I have nothing to base that on, so simply call it a "hunch".

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Rory, he’s due.


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'69 myself, and same here, ditto.

But this "flag-in" rule to me has all the earmarks of being a rule that to me, mean that will quickly go away...Especially as far as the "Tour" is concerned. Too many flaws and things I think will be interpreted as "illegal" soon enough as soon as the abuse of this comes about. And I know it will be abused to the players' advantage. I have nothing to base that on, so simply call it a "hunch".

 

I’m curious what “abuse” of the rules would be? If I’m permitted to leave the stick in or take it out neither is an abuse. Likewise if I’m entitled to relief and take it?

 

The new rules seem to me to be an attempt to reflect what actually happens on the golf course among golfers. If it looks strange to see pros doing these things it’s because most of us weren’t exactly playing by the rules - please note that I wrote “most” not all. :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, revkev said:

I’m curious what “abuse” of the rules would be? If I’m permitted to leave the stick in or take it out neither is an abuse. Likewise if I’m entitled to relief and take it?

The new rules seem to me to be an attempt to reflect what actually happens on the golf course among golfers. If it looks strange to see pros doing these things it’s because most of us weren’t exactly playing by the rules - please note that I wrote “most” not all. 🙂

I'm with you, I just don't see how this rule can be "abused".  And I'm not sure what "flaws" are there in the rule itself, its really a very simple rule.

Having said that, I still wouldn't be surprised if the USGA/R&A will review the new studies that are sure to be released, and at least considering returning to the previous flagstick rules if those studies show a real advantage to leaving the flagstick in.

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I'm with you, I just don't see how this rule can be "abused".  And I'm not sure what "flaws" are there in the rule itself, its really a very simple rule.
Having said that, I still wouldn't be surprised if the USGA/R&A will review the new studies that are sure to be released, and at least considering returning to the previous flagstick rules if those studies show a real advantage to leaving the flagstick in.



There are no flaws. Just like everyone had an option to anchor a putter or not to anchor a putter. We see how that turned out but somehow anchoring it to your forearm is legal. I join Hank Haney in his despise for the USGA.


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20 hours ago, Jmikecpa said:

 

 

 

 


There are no flaws. Just like everyone had an option to anchor a putter or not to anchor a putter. We see how that turned out but somehow anchoring it to your forearm is legal. I join Hank Haney in his despise for the USGA.


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If they are going to wait 40 years to change the rule back I'm good with it.  At 62 I don't think I need to be concerned about that change.

Seriously I don't know how the USGA can win.  I'm not a huge fan but it seems to me that they are trying to make the game simpler with these changes.  That's what most people want.  I'm certainly willing to cut them some slack here.  I like the changes - I would have made the lower drop a place - saves tons of time but that's me.

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If they are going to wait 40 years to change the rule back I'm good with it.  At 62 I don't think I need to be concerned about that change.
Seriously I don't know how the USGA can win.  I'm not a huge fan but it seems to me that they are trying to make the game simpler with these changes.  That's what most people want.  I'm certainly willing to cut them some slack here.  I like the changes - I would have made the lower drop a place - saves tons of time but that's me.


Some of the rule changes I agree with and they got them right others not so much. The flagstick rule for me is fine but now after they are implemented to say “wait people might use this the their advantage” and not the time saving spirit we intended and then panic is a poor showing. How did they not know that people would look for an advantage? As golfer we do that with clubs and balls all the time.

I agree that sometimes they are in a no win situation but they also don’t do themselves any favors. Two US Opens in a row that course set up was shall we say less than ideal.


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Pretty exciting back 9 this evening as Xander just tied Woodland for the lead. Rory is fading fast!


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Bummer for Woodland. Hard to compete with a course record. 2nd place ain’t bad for a brand new set of sticks.

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Felt bad for Woodland, but Xander played flawlessly today - although it would have been nice to see him sink the putt for an eagle.


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Great back nine drama. Felt terrible for Woodland, questionable choice on his approach shot on 18 IMO.


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