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Arccos Driving Handicap - How Do I Lower It?


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Just reviewing my stats from the past year, and with a 15.6 driving handicap (my worst handicap segment by far), I'm thinking that's where I need to concentrate and make some improvement in 2019.  The big question is... do I need to hit it straighter or farther (or both)?  I'm happy to post more details for the curious, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what goes into the Arccos segment handicap calculations to help me figure it out.

Thanks!

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
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Are you able to post more driving stats?

I know with me it wasn't so much distance but more fairways hit that helped me reduce mine. 

Length plays part, but also the courses that you play has a part to do with it. I'm not sure on the exact calculation. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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Sure.  Here goes.  Let me know if you want to see anything else.  Changing drivers a few rounds ago will confound this a bit.

Current Driver (Old Faithful R11):
Smart Distance:  258
Range:  244 - 274
10% Left - 80% Center - 10% Right
Please note... I think this is only one round out of my last 10, so it's not really statistically significant

 

Previous Driver (F8):
Smart Distance:  256
Range:  249 - 274
40% Left - 40% Center - 20% Right

 

3 Wood:
Smart Distance:  247
Range:  233 - 261
14.3% Left - 57.1% Center - 28.6% Right

 

 

 

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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Well, your distance is decent so that isn't hurting you too much. I'd say accuracy is almost certainly where you are losing shots. Hitting 40% is going to drive up your HC a good bit. 

Also, how many penalties do you have a round? 1 shot OB is an automatic 2 added to your HC. 

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Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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I didn't know that about the OB, good to know.

Definitely would agree it comes down to accuracy. We have pretty similar numbers and I have been hovering around a 12-15 on my arccos hdcp for driving. Hopefully getting it closer to 60 will help drop significantly.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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You should see my Driving stats! Hcap 30.0 prob due to distance (smart distance 177, 57% center, 25% right & 18% left). I need more cowbell!


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 6:51 PM, GB13 said:

Well, your distance is decent so that isn't hurting you too much. I'd say accuracy is almost certainly where you are losing shots. Hitting 40% is going to drive up your HC a good bit. 

Also, how many penalties do you have a round? 1 shot OB is an automatic 2 added to your HC. 

 

Distance vs Accuracy - I'm guessing that it's the accuracy as well.  I was just curious if anyone here knows for certain how the calculations are done.  For the short term, would I be better off laying back off the tee more frequently to put myself in play more?  I know that in the long run, being more accurate with the longer clubs will help, but if I can change strategy as a quick fix, I'm not above it.  I've been watching a lot of GolfSidekick on YouTube lately, and his approach is uber-conservative.

 

Penalties - Good question.  If I had to guess, I'd say I'm good for one penalty every 2-3 rounds and one pitch-out every round.  My usual course doesn't have much OB, but there are tons of trees.  And not the kind that you can make a miraculous recovery from.  We have a local pace-of-play rule to play them as a lateral hazard; with the change in rules, I'm expecting us to formally declare them as penalty areas.

 

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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Do you hit 1-2 real bad drives a round? I have found that if I hit one say 200 yards into the trees (275 is avg) then it really affects the driving number. I think that the drives are averaged at end of round and then handicap applied. (I am 100% guessing based on using Arccos, I haven't been able to find anything definite on how they numbers are crunched.)

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image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

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:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

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 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

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Looks like you ought to stick with the R11. 

I'll take accuracy over distance any day. I see far to many distance guys that rarely play from the fairway. But they can sure hit the ball a long way. A long way Left & a long way Right.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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3 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Do you hit 1-2 real bad drives a round? I have found that if I hit one say 200 yards into the trees (275 is avg) then it really affects the driving number. I think that the drives are averaged at end of round and then handicap applied. (I am 100% guessing based on using Arccos, I haven't been able to find anything definite on how they numbers are crunched.)

I do hit 1-2 foul balls most every round, especially if I hit driver, and especially when I was hitting the F8.  I'm with you on wondering how the numbers are crunched.  From a strategy standpoint, I suppose I should just listen to Arccos caddy and use its recommendations (and most of the time now, I do).  I don't mind playing more conservatively off the tee as long as I know that's how I'm going to score best.  

What I'd really like to know is exactly what I should be improving upon with my driving.  I'd love it if @gregarccos would weigh in on this.

 

1 hour ago, PlaidJacket said:

Looks like you ought to stick with the R11. 

I'll take accuracy over distance any day. I see far to many distance guys that rarely play from the fairway. But they can sure hit the ball a long way. A long way Left & a long way Right.

The R11 is definitely back in the bag for now.  Its place is never safe, as I'm sure there's something better out there.  But it's still beating all comers right now.  I'd like to hit it farther, but not at the expense of accuracy.  Interestingly enough, the F8 was both shorter and less accurate, which I think speaks to the lousy fitting I received at my local Golf Galaxy.

 

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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I suppose I'd contact Arcos if I wanted to understand how Arcos did the calculations.  But from your description, you hit it reasonably far, but erratically.  One or two "foul balls" per round means 2 to 4 completely wasted shots.  For a 6 or 7 handicap, that's a big part of your "over par" stuff.  Foul balls are a big problem.  So apparently you need to improve your accuracy.  What is important to remember is that those bad shots are as much a part of your game as the good shots.  You need to improve your swing, in general, in order to improve the bad swings.  

My guess, only a guess, is that your swing includes some compensations, like most of us.  When you time the compensations right, you hit good shots.  When you mis-time them, even by a little, you end up in jail.  You can either practice a whole lot, to improve your timing, or improve your swing and eliminate the need for compensations.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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2 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

I do hit 1-2 foul balls most every round, especially if I hit driver, and especially when I was hitting the F8.  I'm with you on wondering how the numbers are crunched.  From a strategy standpoint, I suppose I should just listen to Arccos caddy and use its recommendations (and most of the time now, I do).  I don't mind playing more conservatively off the tee as long as I know that's how I'm going to score best.  

My guess would be that it is based off a strokes gained approach with all the shots that it tracks in the system; basically data analytics.   Longer but a bit more wild would be better than shorter and in the fairway.  So you could theoretically improve your number by getting longer or by being more accurate.  What are the chances you are going to get longer?   If you don't think you will you need to improve accuracy.    

The recommendation is hopefully based on potential landing area and how accurately hit the club that would get you to that area vs how you recover from a poor shot.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
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02951286-2C9A-4876-9222-00983F60DA92.jpeg

 

Here's some info straight from the Arccos website. The definition has confirmed my suspicions.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with the calculation. I feel like it's assuming that every hole is a driver hole. It rewards long drives but not position off the tee aside from being on the fairway. Based on this, it's more likely to reward me for bombing a ball into a gully with rough than to hit an iron to the top of the hill for a standard 150y into the green.

That next level of detail will be difficult for them to code in so I'm not super upset that is not there yet. I just know if you want to bring that number down, you may suffer in other areas by putting yourself in poor position. Oh yeah, and stop hitting foul balls 😛

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5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I suppose I'd contact Arcos if I wanted to understand how Arcos did the calculations.  But from your description, you hit it reasonably far, but erratically.  One or two "foul balls" per round means 2 to 4 completely wasted shots.  For a 6 or 7 handicap, that's a big part of your "over par" stuff.  Foul balls are a big problem.  So apparently you need to improve your accuracy.  What is important to remember is that those bad shots are as much a part of your game as the good shots.  You need to improve your swing, in general, in order to improve the bad swings.  

My guess, only a guess, is that your swing includes some compensations, like most of us.  When you time the compensations right, you hit good shots.  When you mis-time them, even by a little, you end up in jail.  You can either practice a whole lot, to improve your timing, or improve your swing and eliminate the need for compensations.

I've reached out to Arccos... haven't heard anything back.  I may inadvertently be asking for the recipe to the secret sauce.

I suppose that I innately know I need to be more accurate.  I either throw away 2 shots a round to penalties / pitch-outs or I play extremely conservatively off the tee.  My main question is whether anyone here actually knows what goes into the Arccos calcs or not.

You can see from my driver swing last winter that I take the club back too inside.  So with this swing, I'm completely dependent upon my timing to hit my preferred push-draw.  When the timing is a little late, I block it way to the right.  When I'm early, it's a massive duck hook.  I've started taking lessons again, and my teacher is working on me taking it more down the line to tame the big hook.  It feels weird, but I know it's the right thing to do.  It's going to take a lot of practice to get used to it.

 

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

My guess would be that it is based off a strokes gained approach with all the shots that it tracks in the system; basically data analytics.   Longer but a bit more wild would be better than shorter and in the fairway.  So you could theoretically improve your number by getting longer or by being more accurate.  What are the chances you are going to get longer?   If you don't think you will you need to improve accuracy.    

The recommendation is hopefully based on potential landing area and how accurately hit the club that would get you to that area vs how you recover from a poor shot.  

I was figuring it's based on Strokes Gained as well.  Looking at strokes gained charts, it looks like the strokes gained for 10 extra yards is pretty close to 2 extra fairways.  But I'm thinking that If I can hit two more fairways a round, I'm probably also cutting down on the foul balls.  So accuracy it is...

4 hours ago, GolfSpy STUDque said:

02951286-2C9A-4876-9222-00983F60DA92.jpeg

 

Here's some info straight from the Arccos website. The definition has confirmed my suspicions.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with the calculation. I feel like it's assuming that every hole is a driver hole. It rewards long drives but not position off the tee aside from being on the fairway. Based on this, it's more likely to reward me for bombing a ball into a gully with rough than to hit an iron to the top of the hill for a standard 150y into the green.

That next level of detail will be difficult for them to code in so I'm not super upset that is not there yet. I just know if you want to bring that number down, you may suffer in other areas by putting yourself in poor position. Oh yeah, and stop hitting foul balls 😛

So you're telling me that I didn't play this hole correctly?

 

kingOfTheHole.png

I made my four.  Just not from my fairway.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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Sometimes adventurous golf is more fun and more challenging 😉

I know for me it's definitely accuracy. I've always struggled to get my driving stats on arccos down and then my approach suffers from being out of position. 

Out of curiosity how are the other parts of your game? Do you find they are easier to see results (arccos hdcp) or find out where you are loosing shots?

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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16 hours ago, Apolloshowl said:

Sometimes adventurous golf is more fun and more challenging 😉

I know for me it's definitely accuracy. I've always struggled to get my driving stats on arccos down and then my approach suffers from being out of position. 

Out of curiosity how are the other parts of your game? Do you find they are easier to see results (arccos hdcp) or find out where you are loosing shots?

My tee ball game is always an adventure.

The other parts of my game aren't nearly so bad.  I'd like to hit my irons better.  Short game is OK, and I'm usually a fairly good putter.  Well, at least on greens that I know.  All of it could be better, but I figure if I'm a 6 and I drive the ball like a 16, that's my best chance at rapid improvement.

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-01-03 at 11.28.09 PM.png

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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