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jlukes' Swing Overhaul


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Good luck!  Sounds like a lot of fun.

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Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

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Sounds like you have a plan and I hope the changes help you achieve your goal.

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7 minutes ago, jlukes said:

- Wrist angles: I get far too much wrist extension in my backswing (back of hand moves towards arm).  I need to focus on keeping my wrist flat or even adding a little bit of flexion.  This will really help me control the face to path relationship more consistently and eliminate my reliance on aggressively releasing my hands close to impact in order to square the face.

- Weight shift: I need to continue to focus on not letting my weight get to the outside of my left foot during my back swing.  I need to focus on keeping my weight on the instep of my right foot as well as not get over my toes as I begin my downswing

- Hip Rotation: I need to consistently rotate my hips on the downswing and not sway towards the target or thrust towards the ball.

Really looking forward to seeing your progress here. You're definitely a better player than I am, but our swings share a lot of commonalities. I'm working on the exact same list of things. The bad wrist angles force a steep shaft/early extension for me. I mentioned in another thread using live video in my own practice, which is definitely helping.

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:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
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Full WITB with pictures

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Joe, did he talk to you at all about being across the line at the top? Too steep on the downswing (above plane)? Then standing-up and arching your back at impact to create room for the steep angle coming-in to impact? Hitting against a firm left side, left leg straightening?

IMG_7605.thumb.jpg.9a281e9b92cfde97317e57f0627358a5.jpgIMG_7606.thumb.jpg.af290307398706a15c29a557dbf2114e.jpgIMG_7607.thumb.jpg.15cc63318a40c4d4f57083d4fe2a2cdf.jpg

 

 

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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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3 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Then standing-up and arching your back at impact to create room for the steep angle coming-in to impact?

This is something I struggle with. I have gotten better over the past year, or so, but still need to be conscious of it. Interested to see how this all works out.

Driver:  :callaway-small:Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X
3W:bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES
3H, 4H: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES
4-AW:bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105
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I’d be interested in hearing your coach’s take on how far you take the club past parallel at the top. More and more coaches are teaching a shortened swing, and a club that is more vertical, short of parallel. Might help get rid of the across the line, and help keep the angles of the wrists flat that you’re working-on.

Good luck!


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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9 minutes ago, PMookie said:

I’d be interested in hearing your coach’s take on how far you take the club past parallel at the top. More and more coaches are teaching a shortened swing, and a club that is more vertical, short of parallel. Might help get rid of the across the line, and help keep the angles of the wrists flat that you’re working-on.

Good luck!


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He doesn't care how far I take it back, just that it's my wrist extension and pronation that is giving me an illusion that I'm taking the club back further than I actually am. Once I fix the wrist angles, it should solve the across the line and apparent overswing issues 

 

Check out this video from Mark Crossfield on this exact subject. Super enlightening 

https://youtu.be/SUB52qPlc-A

 

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@PMookie, I definitely want to hear @jlukes take on your questions, but there's always an interesting chicken-and-egg aspect to swing changes. Most "faults" are in some sense functional necessities: because you do swing fault X, you have to do swing fault Y or else you'd be entirely unable to play golf.

For my part, I think the wrist angles issues are the solution both to the "across the line" and the "past parallel" concerns. If Joe flattens his lead wrist at the top of his swing, my hunch is that both of those other "faults" disappear.

From a coaching perspective, I would assume that different people respond differently to instructions for fixing this problem. Tell one guy to stop going past parallel, and maybe he figures out his wrist angles. For me, it's going just the opposite. Not a right-and-wrong here: it's about finding out which path works best for each of us.

Edit: Was typing exactly the same time Joe was typing his reply above. Glad to see we're on the same page.

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:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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1 minute ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

@PMookie, I definitely want to hear @jlukes take on your questions, but there's always an interesting chicken-and-egg aspect to swing changes. Most "faults" are in some sense functional necessities: because you do swing fault X, you have to do swing fault Y or else you'd be entirely unable to play golf.

For my part, I think the wrist angles issues are the solution both to the "across the line" and the "past parallel" concerns. If Joe flattens his lead wrist at the top of his swing, my hunch is that both of those other "faults" disappear.

From a coaching perspective, I would assume that different people respond differently to instructions for fixing this problem. Tell one guy to stop going past parallel, and maybe he figures out his wrist angles. For me, it's going just the opposite. Not a right-and-wrong here: it's about finding out which path works best for each of us.

Edit: Was typing exactly the same time Joe was typing his reply above. Glad to see we're on the same page.

Bingo. 1000% this. Don't treat the symptom, treat the disease. 

The disease for me is poor wrist angles and rotation/weight shift. 

My shaft can get steep or a can get flippy with the hands because I am putting myself in poor situations and the only way for me to make proper contact with the ball is to stand the shaft up and/or flip my hands

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Bingo. 1000% this. Don't treat the symptom, treat the disease. 
The disease for me is poor wrist angles and rotation/weight shift. 
My shaft can get steep or a can get flippy with the hands because I am putting myself in poor situations and the only way for me to make proper contact with the ball is to stand the shaft up and/or flip my hands

About that weight shift. Anything other than just rotation? Anything about a firm left side, straightening of the left leg? We have similar issues of the bent left leg and early extension...

After trips to three Top 100 teachers, no doubt there are “diseases” that need to be addressed. Curious of the diseases that aren’t caused by the wrist angles.



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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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You look super loose and from this side of the computer, I see that as major positive.

Good luck with the overhaul. You’ve got a lot working in your favor kid.


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About that weight shift. Anything other than just rotation? Anything about a firm left side, straightening of the left leg? We have similar issues of the bent left leg and early extension...

After trips to three Top 100 teachers, no doubt there are “diseases” that need to be addressed. Curious of the diseases that aren’t caused by the wrist angles.



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Like I mentioned it's weight shift. I need to work on keeping my weight on the inside of my right right foot and not get over my toes on the downswing. Need to think more heel to heel.

No mention of straightening the left leg. Again, the straight left leg/early extension happens because of my poor wrist angles and weight shift/rotation
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Looking forward to seeing the progression of your swing. We can all speculate on what changes your coach will make with you. And truly that depends on the coaching style and philosophy. Look at someone like Mike Bender vs George Gankas, two very different styles and both have very good players learning under them.

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

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Not swaying, then not early extending, and getting the belt buckle to the target, with a high chest, has been the hardest for me to accomplish. A ton of wall drills to get that belt buckle to the wall. Ugh. Not just rotating from the top. Sheesh.
Photo of Bender working with a PGA mini-tour pro on this concept. Tough.IMG_7609.jpg


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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Not swaying, then not early extending, and getting the belt buckle to the target, with a high chest, has been the hardest for me to accomplish. A ton of wall drills to get that belt buckle to the wall. Ugh. Not just rotating from the top. Sheesh.
Photo of Bender working with a PGA mini-tour pro on this concept. Tough.IMG_7609.thumb.jpg.e0ae14bb5ddfd74a9f50b7afa716a943.jpg


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I hear you on that wall drill. Keeping my weight centered through rotation and no getting out over my toes has always been a big challenge for me.

My instructor has pressure mats that show foot pressure throughout the swing. When I first came to him I was 92% on my front foot at impact and my transfer happened through my right toes to my left foot. Not good! Quieted that down to closer to 80% left foot at impact but still working on not getting out over my toes!
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How wide are you at address with your feet? It would make sense that a narrow stance would encourage the shift and sway.


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  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
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Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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4 minutes ago, bens197 said:

How wide are you at address with your feet? It would make sense that a narrow stance would encourage the shift and sway.


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Just outside shoulder width.  Pretty standard - if anything, a smidge on the wide side.

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Just outside shoulder width.  Pretty standard - if anything, a smidge on the wide side.


Interesting.
  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

Joe, did he talk to you at all about being across the line at the top? Too steep on the downswing (above plane)? Then standing-up and arching your back at impact to create room for the steep angle coming-in to impact? Hitting against a firm left side, left leg straightening?

 

... Ahhhhhh Mook, you remind me of the advice I got from a legendary 80yr old southern instructor when I first started teaching. "Sayum, whey-un yur givun auyut enfor-mayshun, give it auyut by thu teespoon not thu shuvul". 🤪

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
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... If you stop your swing when the shaft is at or just short of parallel you will see this is where your body rotation stops and the rest of the movement is arms/wrist related.


This
  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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15 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I always told me students "NEVER listen to what anyone else has to say abut your swing or your lesson. And NEVER give anyone else advice that worked for you". A good instructor has a plan for your swing improvements and often that plan is based on what might seem like poor advice. It is not. There is a method to the madness.

... If you stop your swing when the shaft is at or just short of parallel you will see this is where your body rotation stops and the rest of the movement is arms/wrist related. As an instructor I need to find out if it is because the right arm is moving the wrists or the wrists moving the right arm? That question has already been answered by your instructor. It is easy to see the shaft is in a perfect position coming back down when it gets to the parallel position so I can see where your good timing days you are just killing it but on your bad timing days you can be inconsistent. Stay patient, which I am sure you will, and trust your instructor when it seems like you are taking some steps backwards. Which of course may or my not happen ... but usually does. I am looking forward to your journey and I'd wish you luck, but you wont need it! 

Thanks man! Always love your insight.  Definitely know that I will go backwards at times, but that's why I'm choosing to do it now rather than mid-season - I don't have to worry about taking my game onto the course for meaningful golf anytime soon.  My instructor and I have great communication and "speak the same language" so I am looking forward to his recommendations for getting me straightened out.  

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1 hour ago, jlukes said:

Like I mentioned it's weight shift. I need to work on keeping my weight on the inside of my right right foot and not get over my toes on the downswing. Need to think more heel to heel.

No mention of straightening the left leg. Again, the straight left leg/early extension happens because of my poor wrist angles and weight shift/rotation

This is my swing thought as well! No goat humping if I get to my left heel. I think EE is an issue for 99% of us am's. Good luck on your journey!

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: LAB Link.1

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

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9 minutes ago, yungkory said:

This is my swing thought as well! No goat humping if I get to my left heel. I think EE is an issue for 99% of us am's. Good luck on your journey!

haha  one of my swing thoughts is "don't *hump the dog"  ....  *sometimes I use a different word and sometimes I say to myself that I bleeped the dog on that one.

Early extension is a difficult one for me.... easy to get it confused with "no" extension.... early is bad, but extension at the right time is good!  so many timing elements.

DriverCobra  Aerojet LS
Woods-
Cobra  LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*,  F9 24* 
Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

Putter- Bettinardi BB56
Ball- Maxfli Tour X/Wilson Triad
Buggy- Clicgear 4.0
Bag- Callaway Org 14/Fairway C

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... Ahhhhhh Mook, you remind me of the advice I got from a legendary 80yr old southern instructor when I first started teaching. "Sayum, whey-un yur givun auyut enfor-mayshun, give it auyut by thu teespoon not thu shuvul". 

Definitely lost in translation


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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... Yankees... sigh. 😉  Without the thick southern accent:  "Sam, when you're giving out information, give it out by the teaspoon not the shovel." 

Edited by chisag

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I give you credit for posting j Luke’s.You have a long road ahead of you.I would seek an instructor that focuses on lower body dictating the swing itself.Your issues aren’t the actual motion.But more being extremely out of sync.All coming back with very poor lower body movements

best of luck 

Keep it in the short stuff

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2 hours ago, Edveed said:

I give you credit for posting j Luke’s.You have a long road ahead of you.I would seek an instructor that focuses on lower body dictating the swing itself.Your issues aren’t the actual motion.But more being extremely out of sync.All coming back with very poor lower body movements

best of luck 

Thanks... I think? I guess it's a miracle I'm a 4 handicap? 

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