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I could copy your intro to this thread in my own, with just a few edits. I don’t hit low 70’s very often (yet), and I’m not long and no longer anywhere near lean.

Those days when the timing is clicking make up for all the days when it’s not.

Back when I was a decent ball striker the one thing that really made the difference was keeping that left wrist flat. I had to pound a lot of balls to get that feeling normal. I remember feeling that all my power was leaving with the change, but the ball wasn’t losing any distance.

I have obviously not spent the time to maintain and now suffer the multi-miss again. I’ll be living vicariously through you this winter, so keep up with the updates! Good luck with the changes!!!!


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Jlukes I have the exact opposite issue. My left wrist bows too much going back and leads to coming too far from the inside. Funny that it produces the same shot pattern you have

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21 minutes ago, gaussman1 said:

Jlukes I have the exact opposite issue. My left wrist bows too much going back and leads to coming too far from the inside. Funny that it produces the same shot pattern you have emoji16.png

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I think the wrist angle only affects face angle and not club path. Bowed wrist like DJ promotes a closed face 

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1 minute ago, jlukes said:

I think the wrist angle only affects face angle and not club path. Bowed wrist like DJ promotes a closed face 

I think this would be like what we were talking about earlier with your swing, how one thing is related to another. Bow the wrist, close the face: now, how are you going to make that functional? You can't possibly go outside-in with a closed face and come anywhere near a target. So in that regard, a bowed wrist ends up encouraging an in-to-out path.

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I think this would be like what we were talking about earlier with your swing, how one thing is related to another. Bow the wrist, close the face: now, how are you going to make that functional? You can't possibly go outside-in with a closed face and come anywhere near a target. So in that regard, a bowed wrist ends up encouraging an in-to-out path.

Or is he so inside to out that he knows he has to close the face in order to come close to hitting target 😉

But that goes to show the importance of finding the disease. Need to experiment by changing path and seeing if it changes face angle and then change wrist/face angle to see if it changes path. Or maybe it's all weight shift issue that creates a swing path issue that creates a wrist angle.

Crossfield is a big proponent of this almost 'experimental' method of teaching and learning as it helps the student learn the why's and the how's and acquire the skills to self correct and hit different shots 

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You’re lesson video right (before) is like watching myself. I’ll be following along. Thanks for putting this up Joe.

What drill were you working on to get your after (left) position?

Just rotating on that post ‘left leg’?

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4 minutes ago, Shankster said:

You’re lesson video right (before) is like watching myself. I’ll be following along. Thanks for putting this up Joe.

What drill were you working on to get your after (left) position?

Just rotating on that post ‘left leg’?

The feeling that was working for me was pushing off the ground through my left heel and straightening my left leg to push my left hip back 

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I think the wrist angle only affects face angle and not club path. Bowed wrist like DJ promotes a closed face 
Well it promotes a closed face at the top certainly. Beyond that it all depends on how the player moves. Many players with cupped wrists also come over the top and most with a bowed wrist play from an underneath path and rotate aggressively to hit fades.

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Arms are clearly more in sync with your torso. Lower body still looks dead and along for the ride. I’ll be interested to see if he can get you to sync upper and lower body where your legs and hips can really drive through the swing.


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9 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Arms are clearly more in sync with your torso. Lower body still looks dead and along for the ride. I’ll be interested to see if he can get you to sync upper and lower body where your legs and hips can really drive through the swing.


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Yup - it was a completely new feeling for me and I was really having to force it rather than it be explosive and natural.  The move will become more natural over time, and with that, it will become faster and more explosive.

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Yup - it was a completely new feeling for me and I was really having to force it rather than it be explosive and natural.  The move will become more natural over time, and with that, it will become faster and more explosive.


This has got to be one of the toughest swing fixes. Great job in such a short time.
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you have a few of my issues here, especially the lower half 'following' the upper half as opposed to the other way around.

Might be worth sticking up some real time videos as the slomo ones can be a tad deceiving sometimes on what is actually happening.

At the end of the day it's what your instructor tells you to do as we're all built differently and have different levels of mobility.

I play sometimes with an ex tour pro who has a frozen/calcified shoulder so has to pick the club up super steep on the backswing, looks weird but he hits it like a pro should and rarely is over par on any rounds.

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13 hours ago, jlukes said:

The feeling that was working for me was pushing off the ground through my left heel and straightening my left leg to push my left hip back 

I wonder if you were 'taught' this swing by someone else as I was.

When I was learning the game I was always told 'get your weight through the ball' over and over again. It didn't make any sense to me since how can a tiny lateral move of a few inches really produce significant power but they were grownups so what did I know. So I started doing that knee slide.

That right side video of you is me to a tee. It is only in the last few years that I realized it just didn't look like moves the pros make that made me focus on pushing off the ground as you say above and straightening my left leg. Interesting, I found it easier to hold my finish - which I think is a good thing.

Good luck, this had been really interesting to follow!

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7 minutes ago, chemclub said:

I wonder if you were 'taught' this swing by someone else as I was.

When I was learning the game I was always told 'get your weight through the ball' over and over again. It didn't make any sense to me since how can a tiny lateral move of a few inches really produce significant power but they were grownups so what did I know. So I started doing that knee slide.

That right side video of you is me to a tee. It is only in the last few years that I realized it just didn't look like moves the pros make that made me focus on pushing off the ground as you say above and straightening my left leg. Interesting, I found it easier to hold my finish - which I think is a good thing.

Good luck, this had been really interesting to follow!

I am thinking that my slide forward is leftover from an even older version of my swing.  Two years ago I would slide back a bit on my backswing so I had to slide forward on the downswing to re-center myself.  As I worked to stabilize my backswing and eliminate the lateral slide on the back swing, I never really did the work to eliminate the slide on the downswing.

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I’m leaving bing this thread! It’s a microcosm of what happens when you post a swing by on a forum even if you write, my teacher is....

We can all see there is something funky with Joe’s swing in the first video. He knew there was something funky, he has a goal and has found an instructor to help him reach it.

I’m at a club that has four class A pros, a mini tour player and former Euro/PGA tour on staff. If they know you are working with one as your teacher they will not give any swing advice because they don’t wish to interfere with another professional. As usual Chisags advice is spot on.

I loved the instruction video - just great stuff.

Best wishes, please continue to tell us how it’s going so that we can encourage you.


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Come on Rev. No way jlukes pro knows more about the golf swing than I do.

He just needs to swing harder

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I went to the range today during lunch with one goal in mind: rotate the left hip behind me.

I got a large bucket and hit everything from Sand Wedge to driver and early results are fantastic.  Obviously, with the new move, my strike position has changed so I had a few wonky shots, but I saw very few high flares to the right.  I was seeing a much better launch window with all of my clubs and I was generating much better contact with my irons.  Even the distance in 40 degree weather with cold range balls was pretty impressive.

I could easily tell by ball flight if I had rotated properly and that is a big part of getting lessons: understanding the changes you are making and being able to identify what you are doing wrong in the swing.

I love the encouragement and feedback I am getting in this thread.  It is really awesome to get engagement from the community like this.  One thing I want to point out is a lot of people are saying "we have similar issues/swings". 

I think if you can take away anything from my initial post, where I thought I knew what was wrong with my swing, to my first lesson where I learned what the main issue with my swing was, it is that not all swing issues have the same root cause.  Having a trained professional be able to work with me has allowed me to address the core of my issues.  If I was by myself, I would likely have tried to fix my wrist angles or shaft plane without even addressing the main issue,  which was my lateral weight shift and lack of rotation.

I hope this thread inspires others to go get some lessons so they can better understand their swing, the cause and effects of their swing faults, and to get a plan to get better.

After just one lesson, I feel like I am on a much better path towards consistency than I could ever have gotten on by myself.  I will continue to do my drills and work hard over the next week and look forward to providing another update after my next lesson on 1/10

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15 minutes ago, jlukes said:

After just one lesson, I feel like I am on a much better path towards consistency than I could ever have gotten on by myself.  I will continue to do my drills and work hard over the next week and look forward to providing another update after my next lesson on 1/10

Out of curiosity, what drills did your instructor have you do?

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1 minute ago, ballplayer002003 said:

Out of curiosity, what drills did your instructor have you do?

Basically just taking my stance, with or without a club, simulating my backswing, and then firing the left hip back while straightening my left leg.  I need to get this new weight transfer/rotation to become second nature so that is all I am focusing on for now.  He said I could do it with my back against the wall, or with a club against my left butt cheek - whatever it takes for me to concentrate on firing my left hip up and behind me.

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... I will add conventional teaching wisdom says you have to make 3 new swings for every 1 old swing to completely replace existing muscle memory. So for those of you attempting a new move, you need to be very diligent and not give up when it may seem like things have stalled or even gone backwards. Some better athletes or those with excellent discipline, can accomplish the change sooner with hard work and a 100% commitment to the process. I am enjoying this thread because I am sure JLukes is 100% committed to the change and following his progress should be very educational for most forum members. 

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