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Fitting/lessons v off the rack/self taught


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Properly fit golfers will always offer the opportunity to play better. It won’t guarantee they will.

A contractor won’t choose a drywall hammer to frame a house but it will still work.


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Can I throw another category into the mix here? I know this is on that website, but it's written by a friend of mine, and the only coach I've taken a lesson from: http://www.golfwrx.com/536948/why-gol

Thinking a little more about it imo it also depends where one is with their game and/or what they’ve done previously. someone who has been fit into their clubs already and are happy with their se

I'll try to answer as best as I can for my own experience... I started playing in earnest the summer after 8th grade, when I started caddying.  My grandfather (who was about a 2 at that time) pai

I certainly agree with the OP. Fitting and coaching/instructions will help you go lower, but you can still play good golf without them. I think the biggest difference between golfers who are improving and those who are stagnant at a mid-to-high handicap, is their own determination to get better. It's their mindset and what they're willing to do to get at least some practice in.

Using myself as an example, I hovered at roughly around a 15 or 16 handicap in 2016 and 2017. That was an improvement from the 18 to 20 handicap I was probably at before. In 2018, I dropped to a 10.6 and I probably played less than I ever have in any of the previous seasons. In fact, I think I played more golf as an 18-20 handicap than I did as a 15-16. I've taken a couple lessons every year for about 4 or maybe even 5 years now. It wasn't until I started to change my mindset on the golf course and squeeze in practice whenever/wherever I could, that I started to really improve.

Now when I go to the course, I play each hole backwards in my head to determine how I want to get to the hole. If I get out of position or into some trouble, I go for the smart play and don't get overly aggressive unless I'm really comfortable with the shot. I use slopes and different trajectories to get on the green and closer to the hole. If I'm having a rough day, I do my best to talk myself off the ledge and stick to my routine until things click (more often than not, I can still salvage a round that starts horribly by simply sticking to my routine). 

I still have yet to be properly fit for a set of clubs, but I did at least run through my bag with a fitter to make sure the clubs I have are optimized for me (I need to do this again SOON). My misses are better and I don't have hardly any gapping issues. I still firmly believe that a full bag fitting will give me the best chance to play my best golf. 

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
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Thanks Ricky Bobby and Steady golf

What type of Mizuno iron do you game Steady? I’m on the mobile app and can’t see your signature. Fitting isn’t just having the irons “fit” it’s having the proper irons for your swing.

I would expect accuracy to decrease a bit with a 10 yard distance gain.

Beyond a doubt I think lessons and smart practice trump fitting - but really poorly fit clubs will cause swing flaws

Sounds like RickyBobbys experience is similar to mine.


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Ping G410 5-9 wood

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2 hours ago, revkev said:

Thanks Ricky Bobby and Steady golf

What type of Mizuno iron do you game Steady? I’m on the mobile app and can’t see your signature. Fitting isn’t just having the irons “fit” it’s having the proper irons for your swing.

I would expect accuracy to decrease a bit with a 10 yard distance gain.

Beyond a doubt I think lessons and smart practice trump fitting - but really poorly fit clubs will cause swing flaws

Sounds like RickyBobbys experience is similar to mine.


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I think I’m todays equipment world accuracy and  distance don’t have to be sacrificed for the other. In my experience over the last 3-4 years for those who have properly fitted clubs and a rather consistent contact point on the face don’t see the distance gains as those who miss all over the face or a consistent miss on one side. With club and shaft design I’ve seen more improvement in dispersion than distance with the exception of the g400 which gave me almost 1 club more carry distance over anything from 2018 release and before.  I’ve been able to limit misses to one side of the course unless I just make a bad swing which there isn’t a club that will fix that big two way miss.

i think overall you and I have had the same experience and for the most part are on the same page in thought process.

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I've read through this with interest. And I had a big, long (boooooring) story about my journey all written up but deleted it.

 

What I'm thinking about - and to take the discussion on a slightly different track - is putting.

As in, let's consider those who *have* gotten fitted for woods and irons .. and possibly wedges, too .. and have taken lessons, gotten coaching, etc. ...

What I'm wondering is how many of those players have been fitted for their putter and have received putting instruction (on par 😉 with their full swing instruction)..??

Vs how many of those players just putt the way that's comfortable for them, with any old putting grip that seems to work for them and are using a putter that's simply visually appealing to them?

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..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*) and EXS 7W (both Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway XR 4H (Project X SD)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 (Rotex graphite) and Callaway X-Jaws 60 (TT-DG S300)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
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2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

I've read through this with interest. And I had a big, long (boooooring) story about my journey all written up but deleted it.

 

What I'm thinking about - and to take the discussion on a slightly different track - is putting.

As in, let's consider those who *have* gotten fitted for woods and irons .. and possibly wedges, too .. and have taken lessons, gotten coaching, etc. ...

What I'm wondering is how many of those players have been fitted for their putter and have received putting instruction (on par 😉 with their full swing instruction)..??

Vs how many of those players just putt the way that's comfortable for them, with any old putting grip that seems to work for them and are using a putter that's simply visually appealing to them?

As you might remember, I've been fitted for woods and irons.  That was back in 2012,  I'm currently not playing those clubs that I was fitted for.  Why?  I bought clubs a couple of years ago off eBay that outperform those 5 year old clubs.  I did have the irons adjusted to my specs for lie angle.  I've had lessons and have been to golf schools, and they have been an experience that helped my swing.

While on my last trip to Phoenix two years ago, I was fitted for my Ping putter at Ping HQ.  I love it!  I have not had specific putting instruction, other than what I received at the golf schools.  I use some of the information from those schools, but my putting technique is not taught anywhere that I know of.  It primarily comes from my own trial and error and lots of practice.  I started out fairly technical with my stroke, but now it's all feel putting for me.  

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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3 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

What I'm wondering is how many of those players have been fitted for their putter and have received putting instruction (on par 😉 with their full swing instruction)..??

Vs how many of those players just putt the way that's comfortable for them, with any old putting grip that seems to work for them and are using a putter that's simply visually appealing to them?

I have done more in the putter area than any other in my bag.  Lessons and fitting.    I personally find it interesting that people will stress getting fit for all the clubs in their bag but not the putter stating that it is how the putter looks and feels is all you need to evaluate.  I am a numbers guy and like to know the numbers from top to bottom.  I would just expect that those that are look/feel regarding the putter would have the same approach to the other clubs in the bag.  

This blog post kind of summarizes those approaches:  https://bargolfinstruction.blogspot.com/2019/01/putting-strategies-artist-or-engineer.html

 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

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I've read through this with interest. And I had a big, long (boooooring) story about my journey all written up but deleted it.
 
What I'm thinking about - and to take the discussion on a slightly different track - is putting.
As in, let's consider those who *have* gotten fitted for woods and irons .. and possibly wedges, too .. and have taken lessons, gotten coaching, etc. ...
What I'm wondering is how many of those players have been fitted for their putter and have received putting instruction (on par with their full swing instruction)..??
Vs how many of those players just putt the way that's comfortable for them, with any old putting grip that seems to work for them and are using a putter that's simply visually appealing to them?


Great question - I have been fitted for putter and was stunned at the results. I have not however taken a putter specific lesson although I have had several on course lessons that included short game comments.

I wonder if I’d get a bang similar to the fitting if I were to take putting specific lessons.


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Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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17 hours ago, Kenny B said:

While on my last trip to Phoenix two years ago, I was fitted for my Ping putter at Ping HQ.  I love it!

 

16 hours ago, cnosil said:

I have done more in the putter area than any other in my bag.  Lessons and fitting.    I personally find it interesting that people will stress getting fit for all the clubs in their bag but not the putter stating that it is how the putter looks and feels is all you need to evaluate. 

 

16 hours ago, revkev said:

I have been fitted for putter and was stunned at the results. I have not however taken a putter specific lesson although I have had several on course lessons that included short game comments

 

Ahha, these are all really interesting examples of what I was wondering.

Clearly the better and more informed players here on MGS have done their diligence with the putter and their putting!

CNosil nailed my thoughts with..

"I personally find it interesting that people will stress getting fit for all the clubs in their bag but not the putter stating that it is how the putter looks and feels is all you need to evaluate."

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WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*) and EXS 7W (both Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway XR 4H (Project X SD)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 (Rotex graphite) and Callaway X-Jaws 60 (TT-DG S300)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator

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7 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Ahha, these are all really interesting examples of what I was wondering.

Clearly the better and more informed players here on MGS have done their diligence with the putter and their putting!

CNosil nailed my thoughts with..

"I personally find it interesting that people will stress getting fit for all the clubs in their bag but not the putter stating that it is how the putter looks and feels is all you need to evaluate."

I am not that fond of the looks of my putter, but the weight, counterbalance, and how the ball comes off the face really fits my putting stroke.  

I'd putt with a sledge hammer if meant making more putts.  Oh wait! I did putt with a sledge hammer on one hole in the Turkey Tournament last year.  Totally ruined my putting with my Ping for the rest of the round.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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On 1/7/2019 at 10:01 PM, revkev said:

To be clear I’m not pitting lessons against fitting.

I’m asking how much better you’ve gotten through lessons and fitting over being self taught and playing off the rack equipment.

It was worth about 6 strokes for me but that’s from a creaky 6 or 7 to a solid 1. It’s very hard to shave off strokes in that territory.

Is there anyone else with an educated guess as to how much they improved through lessons or fittings or both?


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This is a fun topic. For me personally, I've gone through fittings for irons and driver, and ended up going different directions both times and ended up in clubs that I hit better and felt more comfortable with. I dropped from the mid 90's to the high 80's  once I got my bag set.  Can't give you anything scientific and such for it, but with the amount of time I spend tinkering and swapping equipment has given me a better idea of what I feel more comfortable playing. I haven't taken a lesson in over 4 years, and fittings just for some reason didn't do much for me. 

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Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: C130S

Driver: :ping-small: G410 9* w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Fairway: :ping-small: G410 15*  w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Fairway: :callaway-small: GBB Heavenwood 19* w/ Fujikura Pro 72

Hybrids: :ping-small: G410 22*  w/ Tensei Blue

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX919 HMP 5-AW Forged w/ Modus 120s

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX4 55*/60*

Putter: :taylormade-small: Spyder X

Ball: :taylormade-small: TP5

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Ok, good thread/topic.

Here's another 'slight' dimension to it.

I bought my Titleist blades off the shelf, no idea about length, lie, lofts, shafts, kick points etc played everyday and worked out how to hit it well, in my eyes. Got down to a 3 h/cap after 3 years.

Next set of Mizuno blades I bought off the shelf as the pro said it was a cancelled order and do I want them at cost. No idea what shafts they had or anything about Mizuno blades. Used them for 12 years and h/cap stayed around the 4 or 5 mark. Occasionally shot under par.

 

Then I 'discovered' tons of info about the technicalities of the game, equipment specs, kick points, lie angle, bounce and proceeded to get lessons (occasionally I would have a swing breakdown with shanks, pulls, duffs etc) and then fitted for a driver and irons.

 

There now follows years and years of tweaking and chasing a good game thru equipment and quick fix lessons. I could go two seasons without breaking 80 and my game was one shot brilliant, next shot a duff or thin.

I'm still kinda chasing my game but recently found the root of all my issues and working on that myself with excellent results, so far.

 

So in summary I think if you have a good swing you can play anything and will adapt to any shaft or head or lofts.

Lessons and fitting really help to narrow down the key areas that you as an individual and unique person must work on, within your own physical limitations. I've seen teachers trying to give a pupil the perfect swing when they physically or mentally will never achieve this repeatedly, but that doesn't mean they will never play well, the tour and sub tours have guys with swings a coach would never teach but they do exceptionally well.

 

/sorry for the long reply, it started as a 2 liner 🙄

 

 

 

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4 Wood   Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+  :callaway-small: Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex

Hybrid     Titleist 910H 19*    :titelist-small:   Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S'

Irons         Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW   :mizuno-small:  N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S'

Wedges    Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54*  :callaway-small:   KBS Tour in 'R'

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I'll try to answer as best as I can for my own experience...

I started playing in earnest the summer after 8th grade, when I started caddying.  My grandfather (who was about a 2 at that time) paid for me to take lessons with the assistant pro at the club where I worked.  I went from a 30 handicap to an 18 by the end of the summer.  I was playing an old set of hand-me-down Wilson 1200s.  I kept playing, practicing and taking lessons through high school, replaced the 1200s with my beloved Apex redlines (not custom fit) and got down to a 5 my senior year (1989).  That's where I plateaued.

I started playing seriously again in 2005 and dropped from 12 to 8.  I got my first set of custom fit irons in 2008 (a good fitting) and I bounced around as high as 8 and as low as 5.  Did the fitting help?  Tough to say.  I started 2018 as an 8 and got back down into the 5.x range during the CCC^2 last summer after a fitting that I would best describe as barely adequate.  I'm convinced I was "fit" for the wrong F8.  Did this fitting help?  No.  Now, I am average height, with average length arms and average swing speed.  I'm not hard to fit.  I could probably buy off the rack.  What if you're 6'2" with t-rex arms?  You're not buying off the rack.

I've started taking lessons from my daughter's teacher, and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

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Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
2 Iron - :mizuno-small: FliHi (18*) - Recoil 760 ( S )
4i - GW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
SW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino
 

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  • 1 month later...

fitting and lessons will definitely expedite the time it takes to get better BUT you can improve on your own. Practice will be key in either regard.  You'll suck either way if you dont go practice and play consistently. I've had like 2-3 lessons my whole life and should like 90-92 consistently.

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On 2/1/2019 at 7:10 PM, HardcoreLooper said:

I'll try to answer as best as I can for my own experience...

I started playing in earnest the summer after 8th grade, when I started caddying.  My grandfather (who was about a 2 at that time) paid for me to take lessons with the assistant pro at the club where I worked.  I went from a 30 handicap to an 18 by the end of the summer.  I was playing an old set of hand-me-down Wilson 1200s.  I kept playing, practicing and taking lessons through high school, replaced the 1200s with my beloved Apex redlines (not custom fit) and got down to a 5 my senior year (1989).  That's where I plateaued.

I started playing seriously again in 2005 and dropped from 12 to 8.  I got my first set of custom fit irons in 2008 (a good fitting) and I bounced around as high as 8 and as low as 5.  Did the fitting help?  Tough to say.  I started 2018 as an 8 and got back down into the 5.x range during the CCC^2 last summer after a fitting that I would best describe as barely adequate.  I'm convinced I was "fit" for the wrong F8.  Did this fitting help?  No.  Now, I am average height, with average length arms and average swing speed.  I'm not hard to fit.  I could probably buy off the rack.  What if you're 6'2" with t-rex arms?  You're not buying off the rack.

I've started taking lessons from my daughter's teacher, and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

I think that your ability to play off the rack clubs depends on your physical characteristics as Hardcore Looper mentioned. I'm 5'3" with shortish arms so custom-fitting was helpful to me (I think) even though I just started playing last year. 

As for the learning on your own vs. getting coaching, I think there's a place for both. I started out just learning on my own by watching YouTube videos and subscribing to RotarySwing. I wasn't completely satisfied with my progress with Rotary Swing, so I went in for lessons with three different coaches. All of them said that my set-up and overall swing looked great, but there were small tweaks that needed to be made. Basically, I was doing some movements that made getting solid contact difficult (swaying too far away from the target and towards the ball in the downswing). There were also some sequencing issues. Rotary Swing mentioned these issues, but it was hard to know on my own that I was doing them, which is what made getting coaching so valuable. I'm now getting lessons from one of those instructors consistently and my confidence is skyrocketing. 

Overall, I think that the feedback you get from coaching is so valuable, but finding the right coach is paramount. You can know what you're supposed to do in your golf swing, but it's easier for a third party to tell you if you're actually doing it and what you're doing wrong. Perhaps other people are better at self-organizing, but I think a coach just helps to expedite the process. 

Edited by scratchmybirdie
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Hybrid: :callaway-small: Rogue X 18*

Irons: :callaway-small: Rogue 5-AW

Wedges:  :titelist-small: SM7 54*08M, 60*04L

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  • 2 months later...

Really interesting topic!

TLDR Version: Without SOME instruction I NEVER would have fixed myself. Budgetary restraints will limit the # and frequency of lessons, but I will probably use them sporadically over the next year or so. Slices don't just go away without good instruction. New off the rack irons have helped. A semi-fitted driver has been a HUGE improvement. HCP is 18-ish and hopefully headed down.

 

Long Version:
My journey is 20 years of playing golf <10 times per year and hitting balls at the range about the same frequency. And then 2 years ago a couple lessons. And then THIS YEAR deciding that I wanted to figure it out. The 20 years of no lessons were non-stop slice-o-rama! Most of that was pre-internet, not many friends that knew what they were doing, and no idea why I hit a slice. So I never fixed it. The lessons 2 years ago was helpful from a "why does the ball do what it does" standpoint, but it didn't really fix my slice.

This year though I've done the following: 

1 - Lessons! Several. From a good coach. He's not trying to put a band-aid on me. He's telling me what to change. And it's a long list.

2 - Practice! LOTS and LOTS AND LOTS of it. My Dad life worked out where I was dropping kids off for 90 minute Bible studies that allowed me 60 minutes of range time. My kids are old enough that my wife isn't ready to scream at the end of the day, so stopping on the way home from work to hit balls or putt or chip is an option. 

3 - Video! Lots and lots of ugly ass swings on video and a few good ones where I can SEE what I need to be doing.

4 - New Clubs!
Irons are Cobra F7 OL - "fitted" in the sense that I hit a whole mess of clubs and based on price and feel and a few launch monitor numbers I picked what seemed to fit best. But lie angle was never measured nor adjusted. But I KNOW these go farther, higher, straighter than my 10 year old Orlimar set with worn grips.
Driver!!! I actually sort of got fitted for this. I went to GolfTec with a coupon and spent an hour tweeking shafts / heads / weights with the guy. At the end he said "get the lowest spinning face and lowest spinning stiff shaft you can afford." Enter the Ping G400 LST with Low Spin Shaft. I have added 20+ yards and straightened out my driver in a big way. Previous driver was off the internet Orlimar that measured out to a Sr. shaft.

It's hard to measure with HCP the progress because I've never had a HCP before this year AND when I look back at old scores from the last couple years I KNOW that they aren't accurate. Penalty strokes were never really counted right, mulligans happened, foot wedge, etc. I played a few times in January and couldn't break 100 though, so I'm guessing 22+ wouldn't be a bad guess. I think I'm down to an 18-ish # right now. I've shot 90 twice in the last month and haven't been over 100 since April. (oh dear heavens the golf gods are going to punish me).

Looking forward to following others.

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Driver - :ping-small: G400 LST

3W & 4H - Orlimar High Energy 2

Irons - :cobra-small:F7 OL (5I - GW)

Wedges -  Top Flight Gamer Tour 52* 56* 60*

Putter - Orlimar HE2

Balls - Vice Pro

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A few months ago, I took the route of getting custom fit for my entire bag and have seen my scores drop because of that, but for me it's still not enough. I've also taken a few lessons from some coaches in my area that have helped me improve some swing faults but I've still been looking for a place were I feel confident in their teaching methodology.

Enter Golftec. I recently did a swing analysis during the grand opening of a new Golftec in my area. I was impressed with the instructor and the technology they utilize to analyze your swing, enough so, that I signed up for a 6 month 15 lesson plan, at a 20% discount because they just opened. It will allow me to utilize one of their 4 rooms to practice as well. I'm looking forward to seeing where I can get in the next 6 months. I know there will probably be times where I will get frustrated with some of the changes they are trying to make and my scores may struggle because of that, but if they can get me where I want, when it's all said and done, it will definitely be worth it. 

Titleist TS3 9.5* w/Accra TZ5 65 X-Stiff
Titleist TS3 15* w/Fujikura Ventus 7X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 20* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 23* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Titleist 718 CB 5 iron w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist 718 MB 6-PW w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist SM7 Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Bettinardi Queen B 10 34.5"
Titleist Pro V1 or Snell MTB-X

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Great thread revkev, I've really enjoyed reading through everyone's perspectives on this. There's so much nuance to each individual's game/bags that it feels like there may not be any easy cookie cutter answer. That being said, here are my two cents (more in the way of things to think about, not so much direct answers to your question - sorry 😉)

1. What is your natural athletic ability? Some people luck out and just have a better feel for what their body is doing. Seems like the better your awareness is, the lower you'll probably be able to take yourself with self-diagnoses. Although from what I can tell, everyone's natural athletic ability puts a ceiling on how low they can take their HC. Once you hit that ceiling, you're gonna need something else to get further - be it lessons (to work out all the flaws you didn't realize you had), a fitting, etc.

2. Where is your swing at?  Sort of goes along with #1, but the better you are, the harder it is to get better. If you're ball striking is great maybe course management is where you need to improve. Or an equipment change might plug a hole for you in your game. Poor ball striking will obviously be caused by some swing faults, which lessons should help work out. If your swing is reeeeally out of whack, getting some semblance of consistency is going to be much more effective than an equipment change. My guess would be most mid to high handicappers probably live somewhere in the grey on this one.

3. Where is your equipment at? Tough to definitively know this one without actually getting fit, but, how poorly does your equipment fit your game? Are you a 6'3" strong 20-year old playing with hand-me-down clubs from your 5'3" 70 year old uncle? Still rockin' the hickories? (Seriously one of my good friends was playing his dad's childhood hickories until last fall).

Now I'm starting to feel like I'm word vomiting. Back to your original question:

On 1/5/2019 at 10:35 AM, revkev said:

So I’m wondering if there is a way to quantify how much better the Indian can get by going from off the rack self taught to fit with lessons.

As long as there are pretty defined "before" and "after" fittings/lessons, I'd say that's the only way to do it! Should probably be a pretty clean transition from one to the other to diminish other variables, but I'd wager most golfers have more of a ramped up/down transition with stuff like fittings and lessons.

On 1/5/2019 at 1:46 PM, revkev said:

I’m really wondering how much difference fitting and lessons have made in your game or how much difference you think they will make.

Lol now to tear down that entire post (for those still reading, feel free to eye roll). I've never been fit or taken lessons. Currently on a golf budget (per other posts) I'm caught balancing paying for rounds, practice sessions, equipment, and lessons all together.

Being at a spot where I'm content-ish with my equipment, my golf money is going towards rounds and practice currently. But I think at the back end of the season it'll be time for a fitting (thinking putter first). And then might try to find someone in the area for lessons next Spring. I'm hoping to get a little more consistent in the next few months, and then starting to wade into the ocean that can be equipment fitting and lessons...

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Right Handed

Driver (9.5°): :taylormade-small: R9 SupterTri (Fujikura MotoreF1 65 Stiff shaft)

FW (15°): :callaway-logo-1: X2 Hot (Aldila Tour Green 75 Tx Stiff shaft)

Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

Irons (PW-3) :ping-small: Eye 2's

Wedges (52° & 60°): :callaway-logo-1: Mack Daddy 2's

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:04 PM, forerightgolfer said:

Really interesting topic!

TLDR Version: Without SOME instruction I NEVER would have fixed myself. Budgetary restraints will limit the # and frequency of lessons, but I will probably use them sporadically over the next year or so. Slices don't just go away without good instruction. New off the rack irons have helped. A semi-fitted driver has been a HUGE improvement. HCP is 18-ish and hopefully headed down.

 

Long Version:
My journey is 20 years of playing golf <10 times per year and hitting balls at the range about the same frequency. And then 2 years ago a couple lessons. And then THIS YEAR deciding that I wanted to figure it out. The 20 years of no lessons were non-stop slice-o-rama! Most of that was pre-internet, not many friends that knew what they were doing, and no idea why I hit a slice. So I never fixed it. The lessons 2 years ago was helpful from a "why does the ball do what it does" standpoint, but it didn't really fix my slice.

This year though I've done the following: 

1 - Lessons! Several. From a good coach. He's not trying to put a band-aid on me. He's telling me what to change. And it's a long list.

2 - Practice! LOTS and LOTS AND LOTS of it. My Dad life worked out where I was dropping kids off for 90 minute Bible studies that allowed me 60 minutes of range time. My kids are old enough that my wife isn't ready to scream at the end of the day, so stopping on the way home from work to hit balls or putt or chip is an option. 

3 - Video! Lots and lots of ugly ass swings on video and a few good ones where I can SEE what I need to be doing.

4 - New Clubs!
Irons are Cobra F7 OL - "fitted" in the sense that I hit a whole mess of clubs and based on price and feel and a few launch monitor numbers I picked what seemed to fit best. But lie angle was never measured nor adjusted. But I KNOW these go farther, higher, straighter than my 10 year old Orlimar set with worn grips.
Driver!!! I actually sort of got fitted for this. I went to GolfTec with a coupon and spent an hour tweeking shafts / heads / weights with the guy. At the end he said "get the lowest spinning face and lowest spinning stiff shaft you can afford." Enter the Ping G400 LST with Low Spin Shaft. I have added 20+ yards and straightened out my driver in a big way. Previous driver was off the internet Orlimar that measured out to a Sr. shaft.

It's hard to measure with HCP the progress because I've never had a HCP before this year AND when I look back at old scores from the last couple years I KNOW that they aren't accurate. Penalty strokes were never really counted right, mulligans happened, foot wedge, etc. I played a few times in January and couldn't break 100 though, so I'm guessing 22+ wouldn't be a bad guess. I think I'm down to an 18-ish # right now. I've shot 90 twice in the last month and haven't been over 100 since April. (oh dear heavens the golf gods are going to punish me).

Looking forward to following others.

Thanks for sharing - this is very nice stuff.  It is a reality that most if not all of us have budgetary and time constraints.  You are doing a great job of balancing things out, getting the greatest bang for you buck, improving your game while balancing your work and family life.  You should teach that skill! 

Hit them well which means you will hit them less ...

 

Isn't golf bizarre the better you play the more your round costs per shot. 🙂 

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Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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On 6/27/2019 at 9:32 AM, revkev said:

Thanks for sharing - this is very nice stuff.  It is a reality that most if not all of us have budgetary and time constraints.  You are doing a great job of balancing things out, getting the greatest bang for you buck, improving your game while balancing your work and family life.  You should teach that skill! 

Hit them well which means you will hit them less ...

 

Isn't golf bizarre the better you play the more your round costs per shot. 🙂 

Thank you for the kind words. It's taken 20+ years of marriage and nearly 15 years of having kids to be anywhere near the correct balance. I assure you I am NOT qualified to teach anyone about how to make this balance work. 😉

And yes, it is a funny game. $/shot is inversely related to skill level, and generally speaking enjoyment of the round. It is also a cruel cruel cruel game. How many times have you said "if not for that X on hole Y I would have shot N." And X should absolutely be avoidable. And you probably shot at least 2 strokes better on hole Y the previous week. Cruel Cruel Cruel game!!!!

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Driver - :ping-small: G400 LST

3W & 4H - Orlimar High Energy 2

Irons - :cobra-small:F7 OL (5I - GW)

Wedges -  Top Flight Gamer Tour 52* 56* 60*

Putter - Orlimar HE2

Balls - Vice Pro

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