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Will Lucy Li Lose Amateur Status?


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I know... the rules are the rules. Right? I don't think I like what I've read or where this might end up. Like the article says... the USGA is between a rock and hard place.

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This is an interesting situation. The phrase "personal benefit," as stated in the rule is very subjective. Those grey areas are what make things like this so confusing. Honestly, this could go either way, but I'd have to say that the publicity she received would/should be considered a personal gain.

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I cannot believe that Apple and the adults in the room didn't know about this rule before the video was produced.  There had to be a contract signed.  As @GolfJunkie302 stated, the outcome will be determined by what, if any, personal benefit was received.  Unless there was compensation of any kind involved, I'm not sure there is any benefit gained.  She is already well-known and was going to get into any amateur event she wanted to play anyway.  What's the benefit?  That will be what the USGA will have to decide.  

Well... and then in today's world, there is this:  😁

6.2  An amateur golfer of golf skill or reputation must not use that skill or reputation to obtain payment, compensation, personal benefit or any financial gain, directly or indirectly, for (i) promoting, advertising or selling anything, or (ii) allowing HIS name or likeness to be used by a third party for the promotion, advertisement or sale of anything.

So, how would the USGA rule if a model for a clothing line played golf at a high level and decided to enter a US Amateur event?  That player then posed for the clothing manufacturer in a leisure sports outfit holding a golf club.  Is there a personal benefit? 

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Seems like a classic case of "We're going to do this, and DARE you to punish us".  Totally a circumvention of the amateur status rules, IMO.  Lucy gets a LOT of exposure to people who don't follow golf, and that's a benefit to her "brand", big time.  I'd hate to see her completely lose her status, but I'd feel better about it all if she received a suspension.

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This amateur status rules... I don´t get it´s existence in terms of publicity and all. I mean, should competitive golf only be open to whoever just plays Golf? If I have a office 9-5 job and still get to train golf and play as good as anyone else on Tour why can´t I? Why isn´t it like tennis where you get a ranking and there are different tournaments per ranking, and amateurs are all that don´t register in the federation? just asking...

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I saw this ad and this was literally the first thing I thought!

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I personally believe she violated the rules and should receive punishment.  But I am very black and white like that!  I see very little, if any, gray area in life.  My non-golfer wife had a different take.  For reference, my wife was an econ and marking major in college.  She has worked for 20 years in business development, economic development and marketing management.  Her point is simple.  Everyone associated with the ad likely knew the consequence for Li, including Li's family.  It was intentional in her opinion.

My wife believes it was a calculated risk given modern society considers any publicity to be good publicity.  If Li is punished by the USGA, she is the "innocent victim" which will likely land her endorsements from other brands as she turns professional.  This will also give her some leverage with the LPGA to allow her to seek playing privileges prior to turning 18.

If she is not punished by the USGA, she gamed the system to get future endorsements when she turns professional later.  Especially considering she will have been the face of a billion dollar company like Apple in a very successful ad campaign.    

Either way, the Li family benefits.

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The problem is that there is a rule regarding this, there cannot be exceptions to the rules. The blame goes to her parents, for allowing her to participate in the commercial, there are several folks in her “camp” who knew about this rule, and at the very least should have asked if this was a violation. I t don’t think the USGA has any options here, they have to revoke her ametuer status. It may not be popular, but if they let her off, it opens the door for this to happen again and again, and then what. The rule exists, she is in blatant violation of the rule, and the punishment for that violation is loss of her ametuer status. The excuse of “I didn’t know” doesn’t work. 

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/22/2019 at 1:00 PM, Kor.A.Door said:

He rule may need to go away, however, that does not excuse her from breaking the rule as it is written at the time she broke it. 

I agree with both parts of this. The rule is outdated. In an era where people can become internet stars what is the reality of this rule. So if she was a model before she had fame does that matter? If she becomes an Instagram star for posing an athletic attractive woman and does it in the context of being a golfer does she violate the rule? Would it be different if she also ran track and only posed in those outfits? What if it were only bathing suits?  

Is she making a profit off solely the fact that she is a famous golfer or because she is an athletic, successful and attractive young woman?

I see it as difficult to determine the focus so I say we simplify the rule. You are not allowed to make $$ from a golf event.

Other money is harder but I would suggest that the connection would need to be direct. Money from apparel companies would be modeling money unless they were using their results in a tournament as a selling point.

For comparison I also think college athletes should be able to make money from sales of their image or name but not for playing.

Just my thought

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  • 2 weeks later...

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This is a pretty pathetic move on the part of the USGA. She should have been penalized according to the rule she broke., regardless of whether or not it makes sense. 

This just sets the precedent for future issues. Every infractions of a similar infraction should be given the same warning. This was in my opinion, a bad decision. 

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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According to Global Golf Post this morning there are other similar cases. Lucy didn't receive any cash compensation. Just facetime in a TV ad. Sometimes I can be very black and white on some issues but this time I agree with the USGA. Certainly they want her playing at Augusta. Me too. 

As long as there isn't any financial gain I say no foul. Did she return her Apple watch and what was the retail value of the model she had if in fact she did receive one.  I further think it's good for the game to have an amature golfer showcasing their skill. It's good for the game IMO. Sure beats having actors swinging a club in a commercial as they're usually cringe worthy. BTW an Apple watch can cost over $1,000 depending on model.

Taking things further; I'd wager that there are a great many of us amateurs that have received far more compensation ehem... prizes in tournaments that far exceeds the legal limit of $750 in value. Think equipment and day money payouts based on your scoring. (not the same as wagering a $5 bet against your buddy) I never declared professional status after such winnings. Have you? Calcutas and gambling with friends are OK. Making a HIO and winning a car for example is OK too. But a new set of irons worth $1,400 is not. Of course the "system" can be gamed in any number of ways.

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  • GolfSpy MPR changed the title to Will Lucy Li Lose Amateur Status?

One of the significant principles in golf is "equity".  That doesn't mean fairness, per se, it means that similar situations are treated similarly.  Based on that, this statement (appearing in Golfweek) is an indication that the USGA used the concept of equity in making their decision:

Quote

Thomas Pagel, the USGA’s senior managing director of governance, told Golfweek on Thursday the committee poured over decades of cases and in every instance in which an amateur unknowingly broke the rule, received no compensation and took steps to rectify the situation, the player received only a warning.

Similar situations treated similarly.  

In my view, the adults in the room let her down.  The blame goes to her parents, the "casting agent", and Apple.  Every one of them had the resources to read the Rules, its pretty clear:

Quote

In the context of this Rule, even if no payment or compensation is received, an amateur golfer is deemed to receive a personal benefit by promoting, advertising or selling anything, or allowing his name or likeness to be used by a third party for the promotion, advertisement or sale of anything.

 

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Just because you didn’t know the rule, doesn’t exempt you from the rule. At least that’s how I grew up. I didn’t know doesn’t make it right. The USGA got this wrong. (My opinion). I do see there are valid points on the other side. The rule is bad and needs to be fixed. The precedent is set now, the excuse of i didn’t know has to apply for everyone in the future when it comes to the “rules”. 

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