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Soaring Club Prices too Much For Van Sickle

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1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

If you don't, I'd be happy to "troll" again!!

I couldn't let you have all the fun!  email sent with a link to the thread. 

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4 hours ago, Shankster said:

Can’t honestly tell me there’s $50 of yardage in those new drivers over last year??? Or are we paying by the half yard?

In November and December I created a Sunday bag with my old PING G5 driver and went out to the local 9-hole muni and put it into play after being out of the bag for about a year and change.  I know it's not scientific, but the numbers tell me that I was hitting that 15 year old driver just as far, if not further than my PING G400 driver I bought last year.

I bought both drivers at full price, 15 years apart, and honestly, at first I thought the G400 was giving me 20-30 yards more off of the tee, but frankly now I really don't know.  I suppose if I wanted to really get hard numbers I could hit 20 shots of both on a launch monitor and see what the real numbers say when all is said and done.

With regards to equipment being to expensive - I went about 15 years before upgrading my entire bag.  I spent the past 18 months replacing everything in the bag pretty much, and now that I am set with the new stuff, I'll be playing these clubs until I either break them, or find out that my old ass body is wearing down to the point where I need a senior flex in my shafts.

And like I argued with my old boss a few months ago, fishing (and hunting) are far more expensive than golf.  And honestly, if you only play golf once or twice a month, you'll spend no more than a couple of dinners out with the wife at a decent restaurant.  You can spend a ton on this game, or not much at all.  It's really a personal thing.

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There are very few things in my bag (bag included) that I paid full retail for...The driver is one and the only club that I did pay full smoke on. About choked on it at $399 + tax, so that's my limit. Unless I hit the lottery (and you gotta play to win...and I don't most often), price points for my golf gear will remain on items less-than-retail like good-used off of the "bay". I simply am not the guy who has the need to have the most "expensivist" clubs especially since I am mediocre at best and will probably never compete for more than post round beers.

As many have stated already, prices do go up...on everything. Golf gear is no different. Get over it already.

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I’m unimpressed by the article - he defeats his own argument by demonstrating that he has perfectly playable reasonably priced equipment.

Additionally he lives in Milwaukee. Their system of municipal courses that provide affordable high quality golf for its residents is well known. Included among those courses is a former Tour venue, Brown Deer Park.

I know Shankster is trying to equate cost with performance - it’s not necessarily the case my friend nor is that why people buy new equipment every year or two. They do it because it makes them feel good that they can.

My grandfather used to buy a new, fully loaded Caddy every year. Why? Because he could and because he had once come over on a boat and grew up too poor to eat more than a meal a day. During the depression he worked three jobs. One turned out really great for him post war to retirement so every year he bought a Caddy and bought 50 yard seats to the Super Bowl.


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@Kenny B

He did reply very nicely to my message.  Thanking me for the link but still insisting golf is dying and rising cost in all aspects is a reason.  

I said at least at my course in our region we don't see that.  But encouraged him to write a more in-depth piece from all angels, OEM's, courses, consumers and TV Networks.   

Something along the lines youd see from John or Tony 😎

 

 

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There's two reasons you buy anything - either you need it or you want it. And either reason is valid. At that point, it's what price are you willing to pay. If someone wants to buy a $400 fairway wood, that's their business and they sure as hell don't have to justify their decision to me. Unless, of course, they come to me to borrow the money. 
I am learning, as I get older, that spending a bit more for something of better quality or for something I just like the look/feel/fit of, or even something that I enjoy owning and using, is worth it to me. The same stuff may not be worth it to someone else.
IMO, golf equipment isn't any different -- I'm still trying to find the official Yards-per-Dollar Matrix, but I'm beginning to doubt it exists because if it did, that Tour Edge HL-3 driver we tested last year would have been by far the number one seller. It gave you more yards per dollar than anything else in Most Wanted. 
 
 



There has to be a simple formula for this. Yards a person hits the driver vs the cost of that club. It will vary by person but I think that would be cool to see. And have available when getting fit.


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On 1/8/2019 at 7:10 AM, jturner7499 said:

I agree 100% that golf is as expensive or inexpensive as we want to make it. My personal set of clubs has cost me a total of $85. It took a couple years and some patients but there are definitely ways to get around the “high club cost”.


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+1.  Golf equipment cost is similar to what I've observed in fly fishing.  $1000+ fly rods are available but will not necessarily cast better or catch more fish. It's clear the mfg's are tapping into a segment of the players (fishermen) that believe high price equals high performance, simply like the looks of or being seen with that product, or both.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  

I see folks all decked out with high end fly fishing equipment who cannot cast the length of the boat and folks with custom fitted PXG's chopping their way down the fairways.  I also see folks with old $100 rods laying out gorgeous presentations and folks with low cost clubs playing great golf.  If all are having fun with whatever they choose in equipment, to each their own.

Reading the article, it seems that the author is focusing too much on the more recent growth of "high end/cost" and not balancing that with the fact that there is still plenty of mid range, quality equipment available - and that dosen't even account for the used market option.  I would no way have paid $300 for my Callaway Razr-Fit, but had no problem forking over $50.

Now, were the market to shift where all new clubs were in the Mizuno, PXG, etc. price points, I think his article would be spot on...but that is not the case.

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8 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

+1.  Golf equipment cost is similar to what I've observed in fly fishing.  $1000+ fly rods are available but will not necessarily cast better or catch more fish. It's clear the mfg's are tapping into a segment of the players (fishermen) that believe high price equals high performance, simply like the looks of or being seen with that product, or both.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  

I see folks all decked out with high end fly fishing equipment who cannot cast the length of the boat and folks with custom fitted PXG's chopping their way down the fairways.  I also see folks with old $100 rods laying out gorgeous presentations and folks with low cost clubs playing great golf.  If all are having fun with whatever they choose in equipment, to each their own.

Reading the article, it seems that the author is focusing too much on the more recent growth of "high end/cost" and not balancing that with the fact that there is still plenty of mid range, quality equipment available - and that dosen't even account for the used market option.  I would no way have paid $300 for my Callaway Razr-Fit, but had no problem forking over $50.

Now, were the market to shift where all new clubs were in the Mizuno, PXG, etc. price points, I think his article would be spot on...but that is not the case.

Well stated Sir! Spot-on with the fly-fishing analogy.

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And just played out on YouTube. This guy has 3 videos over the past few days about his “beater” clubs. Interesting, plus he has a sense of humor.





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The dude misses one very important point about any business - margins. 

IF what he says about declining participation is accurate, and IF you know the market for drivers is declining (meaning fewer drivers overall are going to be sold year after year), and IF your goal is margin and not market share, your prices will be going up. If your goal is market share then sure, your can cut your prices, but how many more will you have to sell to get to the same profit in dollars than if you left the price alone?  

If you have a profit margin of 20 percent on your product when you sell it to a retailer, and you decide to cut your selling price 15% (ONLY!!!!), and guesses on how much your volume would have to increase in order to make the same profit dollars as you would have if you had just left well enough alone?

Try 300%.

You would have to sell THREE TIMES AS MANY DRIVERS just to get back to where you were before you made the market share grab. But even that number is a little shady, because everything you do is going to have to triple - you'll need more inventory, you'll need more warehouse space, more manufacturing capabilities, more order-entry, more sales people and more advertising to get people to reach for your product compared to someone else's - and we're talking only a15% percent price cut. If your retailer passes that price cut on to the consumer, a $399 driver would be selling it for $339.  Is THAT kind of a price cut going to get you 3 time the sales?

On the other hand, if you were working on a 20% margin and actually INCREASED pricing 15% - now selling that $399 driver for $459, you could LOSE 43% of your sales and still stay whole profit dollar-wise. 

And both scenarios assume your cost of goods sold doesn't change which, of course, it will.

Hmmmmm.....

Which would you do?

This may seem like a slight oversimplification - and in some ways it is - but ultimately the math is the math is the math...

 

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12 hours ago, toehold57 said:

And just played out on YouTube. This guy has 3 videos over the past few days about his “beater” clubs. Interesting, plus he has a sense of humor.
 

 

 

 


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Make sure you turn on closed captioning!!  😂

 

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55 minutes ago, GolfSpy Barbajo said:

The dude misses one very important point about any business - margins. 

IF what he says about declining participation is accurate, and IF you know the market for drivers is declining (meaning fewer drivers overall are going to be sold year after year), and IF your goal is margin and not market share, your prices will be going up. If your goal is market share then sure, your can cut your prices, but how many more will you have to sell to get to the same profit in dollars than if you left the price alone?  

If you have a profit margin of 20 percent on your product when you sell it to a retailer, and you decide to cut your selling price 15% (ONLY!!!!), and guesses on how much your volume would have to increase in order to make the same profit dollars as you would have if you had just left well enough alone?

Try 300%.

You would have to sell THREE TIMES AS MANY DRIVERS just to get back to where you were before you made the market share grab. But even that number is a little shady, because everything you do is going to have to triple - you'll need more inventory, you'll need more warehouse space, more manufacturing capabilities, more order-entry, more sales people and more advertising to get people to reach for your product compared to someone else's - and we're talking only a15% percent price cut. If your retailer passes that price cut on to the consumer, a $399 driver would be selling it for $339.  Is THAT kind of a price cut going to get you 3 time the sales?

On the other hand, if you were working on a 20% margin and actually INCREASED pricing 15% - now selling that $399 driver for $459, you could LOSE 43% of your sales and still stay whole profit dollar-wise. 

And both scenarios assume your cost of goods sold doesn't change which, of course, it will.

Hmmmmm.....

Which would you do?

This may seem like a slight oversimplification - and in some ways it is - but ultimately the math is the math is the math...

 

You nailed in John!

In my previous life, hotel GM this was a constant discussion, and to me there was only one right side....ha suprise I know.

Question for the class.  You are a hotel manager, on one given night would you rather:

A) Sell 135 rooms at $125 a night

B) Sell 125 rooms at $135 a night

or

C) Sell 115 rooms at $150 a night 

Try and answer without doing the math.   This is a very simplified version of revenue optimization that hotels and the airlines before them...and now 30 years later golf courses are starting to get into.   

When I would give this sample to a new training class is was always shocking to see the answer and even after explaining the why's behind it that john laid out.  But it always without fail led to interesting discussions that I enjoyed leading/taking part in. 

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13 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

You nailed in John!

In my previous life, hotel GM this was a constant discussion, and to me there was only one right side....ha suprise I know.

Question for the class.  You are a hotel manager, on one given night would you rather:

A) Sell 135 rooms at $125 a night

B) Sell 125 rooms at $135 a night

or

C) Sell 115 rooms at $150 a night 

Try and answer without doing the math.   This is a very simplified version of revenue optimization that hotels and the airlines before them...and now 30 years later golf courses are starting to get into.   

When I would give this sample to a new training class is was always shocking to see the answer and even after explaining the why's behind it that john laid out.  But it always without fail led to interesting discussions that I enjoyed leading/taking part in. 

The best business speaker I've ever known - the late, great Larry Steinmetz - put it very simply: How many of you would be willing to work three times as hard as you're working right now and make the exact same amount of money you're making right now? Go ahead, raise your hand...

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4 minutes ago, GolfSpy Barbajo said:

The best business speaker I've ever known - the late, great Larry Steinmetz - put it very simply: How many of you would be willing to work three times as hard as you're working right now and make the exact same amount of money you're making right now? Go ahead, raise your hand...

Perfect!

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