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The Walking Golfer


fixyurdivot

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For those like me who would prefer to walk, it can often be disappointing that courses don't allow this option.  I totally get that some layouts simply do not lend themselves to walking, but I also know a good many where that option could be offered but is not.  My wife and I have been looking around various AZ golf course communities and a couple we like have courses that only allow riding golf carts.  It may not be a deal breaker, but I would prefer finding a community with a home course, or at least some others courses in the area, that allow walking. One would think that with all the focus on being more active and the benefit of being able to combine the game with non-strenuous exercise, more courses would be designed to allow both walk and ride.

I stumbled on this link that lists many courses in AZ and whether they allow walking - thought others might find it handy.

http://thewalkinggolfer.com/walkability_ratings_az.html

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I've never seen/played a course where walking isn't allowed. Maybe a resort course somewhere. So how do they handle kids who aren't old enough or have the money to rent a cart? Ban them? The whole idea seems counter intuitive to me. 

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I assume they ban walking (weird concept for golf) for commercial reasons as they can fire thru more 4 balls at $XXX per head.

I'm also confused as to how a course layout doesn't lend itself to walking? do you mean due to large gaps from one green to the next tee?

In my experience sometimes, and I mean sometimes, cart riders are slower than walkers.

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Several courses within a couple hours of me do not allow walking as a hard rule or charge for the motorized cart whether you use it or not.

 

I’ve always assumed it’s an attempt to maximize profits.

 

Love the website OP. Nice find!

 

 

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I've never seen a course do this. It seems odd to "ban" paying costumers. I know for a fact, unless it's a course I really want to play, (think Pinehurst #2) I'd never go to a course that requires a cart. It takes the fun out of it for me. 

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4 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

I've never seen/played a course where walking isn't allowed. Maybe a resort course somewhere. So how do they handle kids who aren't old enough or have the money to rent a cart? Ban them? The whole idea seems counter intuitive to me. 

There are a number of courses that do not allow walking.  Several here in the Yuma area have distances between greens and next tees that are quite long.  One in particular has over a 1/2 mile between #7 and #8 holes. I've also played courses where that and elevation changes simply do not lend themselves to walking - at least by most.  

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There are several reasons courses don’t allow walking that include pace of play which could be a result of course layout (also a reason alone that courses don’t allow it) that has long distances between holes or elevation change. Resort course, financial reasons where they need to make money on cart rentals. 

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There's one course that's practically in my backyard that charges the same price for walking and riding.  There's one walk through a neighborhood that's a few hundred yards, and 9 green to 10 tee is probably 300 yards.  Other than that, it's perfectly walkable.

There's another course not to far away that's routed through a housing development.  For all intents and purposes, it's unwalkable.  When we have PGA Junior League matches there, parents are enlisted to drive kids from greens to tees in the interest of finishing before dark.

@perseveringgolfer - Be glad you do not see this sort of nonsense on your side of the pond.  Courses that can't be walked tend to have other issues as well (like houses too close to the edge of the course).

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Although we all love the game of golf that love for the game is precisely what blinds us from the sad reality Golf Courses have been closing at an alarming rate. As a matter of fact nation wide some 200 plus courses closed this year alone while to the contrast only 15 new courses opened. Some would argue these closures are simply a market correction from the golf course community boom of the 90s. Still there is no denying making money in the golf industry is tricky business.

 

The reason for no walking rules is two fold; a course can get in more rounds mandating riders only and more importantly they benefit financially from the cart up charge. Many of us can keep pace with most riders and some of us can even out pace those same riders. Still, industry statistics supported by thousands of rounds of golf show to maximize profits through rounds played forcing folks to ride is the way to go.

 

I to prefer to walk but I’m a single digit handicap golfer who likes to play golf as a fitness activity. From my experience the majority of a golfers shoot in the high 80s to mid 90s. Many of those 15 to 20 handicappers just cannot keep pace walking with their cart riding counter parts. This slows down the entire golf course thus limiting the total amount of paid rounds a course can push through in a given day.

 

 

 

 

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I completely get some courses are poorly designed when taking ease of walking the course into consideration. That’s just simply not the case for my home course. Thus, walkers tend to be the faster players and it’s really not close.

Those same 15 to 20 handicappers riding carts tend to hit 3 or 4 tee shots, a couple shots from the fairway, and hit that dreaded bunker shot at least 3 times. Once on the green, they get a view of the line from every conceivable angle while taking proper etiquette into consideration to ensure the player “away” has the honor.

They straggle off the green to write down the 7’s and 8’s before heading to the next tee box.

My point is, I can’t recall ever being held up by anyone walking. I can, however, recall being held up by the asshat in a cart who refuses to let me play through because surely I can’t walk the course faster than he can ride.


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I completely get some courses are poorly designed when taking ease of walking the course into consideration. That’s just simply not the case for my home course. Thus, walkers tend to be the faster players and it’s really not close.

Those same 15 to 20 handicappers riding carts tend to hit 3 or 4 tee shots, a couple shots from the fairway, and hit that dreaded bunker shot at least 3 times. Once on the green, they get a view of the line from every conceivable angle while taking proper etiquette into consideration to ensure the player “away” has the honor.

They straggle off the green to write down the 7’s and 8’s before heading to the next tee box.

My point is, I can’t recall ever being held up by anyone walking. I can, however, recall being held up by the asshat in a cart who refuses to let me play through because surely I can’t walk the course faster than he can ride.


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Your experience is not consistent with golf play statistic studied by folks who have a vested interest in the bottom line. A properly managed Golf Course with proactive course Ambassadors can maximize through put much more efficiently when all players are required to ride. Guys hitting two or three balls off the tee is a course management short fall.


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Your experience is not consistent with golf play statistic studied by folks who have a vested interest in the bottom line. A properly managed Golf Course with proactive course Ambassadors can maximize through put much more efficiently when all players are required to ride. Guys hitting two or three balls off the tee is a course management short fall.

 

 

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If all players were required to ride at my home club, we would lose half the membership base. Our club has the strongest membership base in the region and is debt free. In 12 years as a member, dues have increased twice. In 2007 and 2018. Each increase was a whopping $10 per year.

 

Another club about an hour from here has been the feature of several media articles. They went into debt to build dining, fitness and aquatics facilities and eliminated walking. They are now bankrupt after losing half its membership base.

 

The former owner of my company used to say “do one thing and do it better than anyone else!” Many golf courses around the US have gotten away from that and are suffering as a result.

 

More isn’t always better!

 

Edit to add: I certainly wouldn’t join a club where the “bottom line” was ever a consideration.

 

 

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I'd love to know what the maintenance budgets are for courses that have designed themselves into requiring riding.  More expensive?  Less expensive?  No difference?

 

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I'd love to know what the maintenance budgets are for courses that have designed themselves into requiring riding.  More expensive?  Less expensive?  No difference?

 

That’s a great question. I have often wondered how the “for profit” club model compares to the member/stock owned “non-profit” clubs like mine.

 

The non-profit clubs throughout the region where I live seem to be far more healthy than the for-profit clubs. Although there aren’t that many non-profit clubs left around here. But appearances can be deceiving sometimes.

 

 

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There are no courses in my area that require carts.

 

11 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

For those like me who would prefer to walk, it can often be disappointing that courses don't allow this option.  I totally get that some layouts simply do not lend themselves to walking, but I also know a good many where that option could be offered but is not.  My wife and I have been looking around various AZ golf course communities and a couple we like have courses that only allow riding golf carts.  It may not be a deal breaker, but I would prefer finding a community with a home course, or at least some others courses in the area, that allow walking. One would think that with all the focus on being more active and the benefit of being able to combine the game with non-strenuous exercise, more courses would be designed to allow both walk and ride.

I stumbled on this link that lists many courses in AZ and whether they allow walking - thought others might find it handy.

http://thewalkinggolfer.com/walkability_ratings_az.html

Thanks for the list.  I'm playing Lookout Mountain in Phoenix next Monday, and I know that is difficult to walk; played it many years ago.  Also next week I'm playing the Arizona Golf Resort in Mesa; never played it before and the list says it's easily walked.

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If all players were required to ride at my home club, we would lose half the membership base. Our club has the strongest membership base in the region and is debt free. In 12 years as a member, dues have increased twice. In 2007 and 2018. Each increase was a whopping $10 per year.
 
Another club about an hour from here has been the feature of several media articles. They went into debt to build dining, fitness and aquatics facilities and eliminated walking. They are now bankrupt after losing half its membership base.
 
The former owner of my company used to say “do one thing and do it better than anyone else!” Many golf courses around the US have gotten away from that and are suffering as a result.
 
More isn’t always better!
 
Edit to add: I certainly wouldn’t join a club where the “bottom line” was ever a consideration.
 
 
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You might find this article interesting.

https://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/article/moeller-golf-4-4-14.pdf




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5 hours ago, SteddyGolf said:

You might find this article interesting.

https://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/article/moeller-golf-4-4-14.pdf

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Interesting indeed.  The article does tend to center around the USGA's desire to increase revenue.  Which tends to be the direction they have been steering the game for the past four decades.  It's the reason for-profit conglomerates like McConnell Golf and Club Corp have taken over the recreational golf scene.  It's also the reason clubs like mine are becoming fewer and further between.  I find it interesting that 74% of clubs in the US have more than 50 carts.  I think we have 30 total!

The members own our club.  The members take care of our club.  The members keep the club what it has always been for going on six decades.  Our club is in terrific shape with the best greens in a 100 mile radius.  We keep it simple and don't try to do anything other than what we were designed to do.

 

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12 hours ago, SteddyGolf said:

 


Your experience is not consistent with golf play statistic studied by folks who have a vested interest in the bottom line. A properly managed Golf Course with proactive course Ambassadors can maximize through put much more efficiently when all players are required to ride. Guys hitting two or three balls off the tee is a course management short fall.


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Not disputing the data you reference, but it certainly does not align with my observations on most walk-able courses. Now that could be because 95% of my lifelong golf experience has been on public courses.  Also when I'm riding with someone, more often than not, I'm sitting in the cart thinking that, if I had my push cart, I'd already be heading too (or at) my ball, with yardage determined, club in hand, and way closer to playing ready golf than sitting in a cart on the other side of the fairway.

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Not disputing the data you reference, but it certainly does not align with my observations on most walk-able courses. Now that could be because 95% of my lifelong golf experience has been on public courses.  Also when I'm riding with someone, more often than not, I'm sitting in the cart thinking that, if I had my push cart, I'd already be heading too (or at) my ball, with yardage determined, club in hand, and way closer to playing ready golf than sitting in a cart on the other side of the fairway.



As our CFO at the medical center use to say, “the data are what the data are”. . Interesting enough you bring up one of my pet peeves which is Golfers sitting in carts watching their cart partner play their ball. In my opinion a guy or gal sitting in a cart waiting for a ball to be played should be something that happens rarely during a round of golf. I see it all the time and it drives me crazy. If golfers are utilizing the golf cart correctly a walker should have a very hard to time keeping up with the pace. The average max speed of a golf cart is 12 to 14 miles per hour. The average adult male walks about 4 miles per hour. Mathematically it’s not even a close competition.

You also bring up a good point in regards to public courses which are funded in part through public funds (taxes). Their business model is developed to the break even point. They rarely are located on leased or mortgaged land and they don’t have to pay taxes on said land.

I believe their is a happy medium which would allow for walkers, riders and profits to all exist together under one business plan. I completed a similar business plan when I was doing my PGA internship. I’m not going to bore you guys with the painful details of that plan but what I will say is it takes a lot more than cutting grass and running a tee sheet to keep a Golf Course open.


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28 minutes ago, SteddyGolf said:

As our CFO at the medical center use to say, “the data are what the data are”. emoji851.png. Interesting enough you bring up one of my pet peeves which is Golfers sitting in carts watching their cart partner play their ball. In my opinion a guy or gal sitting in a cart waiting for a ball to be played should be something that happens rarely during a round of golf. I see it all the time and it drives me crazy. If golfers are utilizing the golf cart correctly a walker should have a very hard to time keeping up with the pace. The average max speed of a golf cart is 12 to 14 miles per hour. The average adult male walks about 4 miles per hour. Mathematically it’s not even a close competition.

You also bring up a good point in regards to public courses which are funded in part through public funds (taxes). Their business model is developed to the break even point. They rarely are located on leased or mortgaged land and they don’t have to pay taxes on said land.

I believe their is a happy medium which would allow for walkers, riders and profits to all exist together under one business plan. I completed a similar business plan when I was doing my PGA internship. I’m not going to bore you guys with the painful details of that plan but what I will say is it takes a lot more than cutting grass and running a tee sheet to keep a Golf Course open.


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"Data are what data are" but how that data is used (or not used) to paint a narrative tells a story.  Often, the data is presented in such a way as to create a desired narrative.  Which often tells a very different story than what might actually be found in reality.

I've been walking predominantly for 30 years.  I have yet to have a foursome in carts following my foursome walking that wasn't several holes behind by the time we reach 18.  Simply calculating the speed at which one walks versus how fast a cart can travel is not factoring in all the data necessary to paint an accurate picture. 

But that's just my observation and experience.  I might be biased by the quality and quantity of play at my club.

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20 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

I assume they ban walking (weird concept for golf) for commercial reasons as they can fire thru more 4 balls at $XXX per head.

I'm also confused as to how a course layout doesn't lend itself to walking? do you mean due to large gaps from one green to the next tee?

In my experience sometimes, and I mean sometimes, cart riders are slower than walkers.

To your first point, cart rentals provide a healthy portion of a golf courses' revenue.  Usually has nothing to do with pace of play.

To your second point, I'll cite an example of a set of courses that you can walk if you want to, but after trying it personally, I opted for a cart after the first round.  Go play the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail courses in Prattville, AL.  The Judge specifically is a course that is designed with carts in mind.  Beyond the start and ending holes from the clubhouse to the fairway being built on the side of a mountain and requiring a hefty hike straight up and down the hill, every hole on that course required a massive hike from the green to the next tee.  I swear when I was done walking that course that I felt like I had played 36 holes.  It was that huge of a gap between holes.  And I think we just about killed my Dad at the time who was physically ailing after that round and could barely walk.

We opted for cart for the next two rounds at Prattville for both the Legislator and the Senator courses.  Those course as well require big distance between a green and the next tee on most holes.

Beyond the insanity of the design at the Prattville courses, try golfing in the mountains sometime and walking.  My Dad's home courses of CC of Asheville definitely allows walking, but you better be in shape to play that course.  Not so much on the front nine, but the back nine has some insane elevation changes where by the time you are done walking 18 you'll about want to collapse.

 

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48 minutes ago, sixcat said:

"Data are what data are" but how that data is used (or not used) to paint a narrative tells a story.  Often, the data is presented in such a way as to create a desired narrative.  Which often tells a very different story than what might actually be found in reality.

I've been walking predominantly for 30 years.  I have yet to have a foursome in carts following my foursome walking that wasn't several holes behind by the time we reach 18.  Simply calculating the speed at which one walks versus how fast a cart can travel is not factoring in all the data necessary to paint an accurate picture. 

But that's just my observation and experience.  I might be biased by the quality and quantity of play at my club.

Good points. Walking golfers can go directly to their ball whereas carts are often required to stay on paths and/or use the 90 degree rule.  I would venture to guess that four players going point to point is very close to the speed of two players in a cart zig-zagging down the fairway.  Players in carts must drive up short of the green and go park, then gather clubs and walk to their chip shots/putts.  Thinking they're on the putting surface and finding out they're not often results in a trip back to the cart.  Of course taking an extra club or two is the way to resolve that issue - but then they forget a club and make another trip back from the cart to retrieve. 😃

 

 

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3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Not disputing the data you reference, but it certainly does not align with my observations on most walk-able courses. Now that could be because 95% of my lifelong golf experience has been on public courses.  Also when I'm riding with someone, more often than not, I'm sitting in the cart thinking that, if I had my push cart, I'd already be heading too (or at) my ball, with yardage determined, club in hand, and way closer to playing ready golf than sitting in a cart on the other side of the fairway.

That's true to some extent.  Depending on how much advantage my wife gets off the tee, either her ball or my ball will be further, but we will both likely be in the fairway.  One of us will not be able to go to our ball because we would be in the way of the other.  Yes, I see the pros playing with the bombers way out win front of the shorter guys when hitting their next shot, but we can't do that.  If someone is ahead and maybe slightly to the right of us, my wife will pull her shot dead left trying not to hit them, and I will shank one directly at them.  So, we sit in the cart until it's our turn (remember that when we play in Spokane this summer!).  We also have one GPS unit between us which doesn't help either.

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"Data are what data are" but how that data is used (or not used) to paint a narrative tells a story.  Often, the data is presented in such a way as to create a desired narrative.  Which often tells a very different story than what might actually be found in reality.
I've been walking predominantly for 30 years.  I have yet to have a foursome in carts following my foursome walking that wasn't several holes behind by the time we reach 18.  Simply calculating the speed at which one walks versus how fast a cart can travel is not factoring in all the data necessary to paint an accurate picture. 
But that's just my observation and experience.  I might be biased by the quality and quantity of play at my club.


You club is an anomaly that falls outside of the norm. It must be a great place to play golf.


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6 minutes ago, SteddyGolf said:

You club is an anomaly that falls outside of the norm. It must be a great place to play golf.

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I'm starting to understand just how much of an anomaly.  We have a handful of guys who drink too much and cause a scene on occasion but it's usually taken care of in short order.  

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To your first point, cart rentals provide a healthy portion of a golf courses' revenue.  Usually has nothing to do with pace of play.
To your second point, I'll cite an example of a set of courses that you can walk if you want to, but after trying it personally, I opted for a cart after the first round.  Go play the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail courses in Prattville, AL.  The Judge specifically is a course that is designed with carts in mind.  Beyond the start and ending holes from the clubhouse to the fairway being built on the side of a mountain and requiring a hefty hike straight up and down the hill, every hole on that course required a massive hike from the green to the next tee.  I swear when I was done walking that course that I felt like I had played 36 holes.  It was that huge of a gap between holes.  And I think we just about killed my Dad at the time who was physically ailing after that round and could barely walk.
We opted for cart for the next two rounds at Prattville for both the Legislator and the Senator courses.  Those course as well require big distance between a green and the next tee on most holes.
Beyond the insanity of the design at the Prattville courses, try golfing in the mountains sometime and walking.  My Dad's home courses of CC of Asheville definitely allows walking, but you better be in shape to play that course.  Not so much on the front nine, but the back nine has some insane elevation changes where by the time you are done walking 18 you'll about want to collapse.
 
IMG_1985.JPG.1d1d316a5f35ac71339748fc423f1ded.JPG

Image1547563521.970525.jpg
Mountain Dell, Park City, UT
Walked/crawled
More than “about collapsed” on 18th tee.

One cart will be much faster than one walker. But when you put two riders in a cart, there is a limit to how much spraying you can do in a round before that cart is traveling four times farther than a walker. I would much rather be thinking about my next shot than mapping out who drops who off where with a Rand McNally atlas on every hole.

Oh, and I will be taking the helicopter option at Mountain Dell next time.



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:ping-small: G400 LST 8.5 Ping Tour 65 Stiff

:adams-small: Adams XTD Ti 18 deg 3Hy

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan PTx 22-46 

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan TK15 50, 54, 58 deg wedges

:cameron-small: Futura 5.5

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I recently started following The Walking Golfer on Twitter (@WalkingGolferMW).  He got into an interesting conversation regarding clubs allowing walking.  It appears, it's common practice for some privates to allow walking but disallow push-carts.  In my opinion, this is a more ridiculous position than not allowing walking at all.  There can be only one reason for not allowing push-carts and it's entirely centered around ego!  It's ridiculous!

 

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My home club allows walking, allows push carts, allows motorized push carts.  What I find amusing about the "image" discussions is that at most of the famous courses in Scotland trolleys are extremely common.  I don't think these anti-trolley "snobs" would dare label Carnoustie or Royal Dornoch or Prestwick as somehow lower-class establishments.  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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There are maybe one or two courses in my immediate area that don't allow walking (or at least I never seen people walking). They are both public courses and are both owned by casinos. Not a huge loss though as I don't think I'd really want to walk either course (quite spread out with several steep hills) and the fees aren't that horrible. One course charges specials all the time and I've played for as little as $25 with cart. The other is pricier, but still within a reasonable range of nicer public courses I've played.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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