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Club fitting question


Bryndom

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I’ve been a long time hacker of the golf club and have decided this year to take the plunge and get fitted for clubs.  I have a few questions about it and hope the folks on here could help me out.

 

I have a reservation at club champion here locally in Houston because I wanted to be oem agnostic and find the best manufacturer for me (be it pxg or tour exotics I care much more about performance than labels).

 

I tried hitting at golf galaxy and felt total pressure from them to hurry up and buy; their limited selection didn’t help and it almost felt like they were getting a bonus to move extra stock at the eoy instead of picking what works best for me.  i am similarly concerned about going to a oem specific fitter as they are really going to fit only their equipment and I really am not sure which will work best for me.  

 

I do have the luxury in Houston of pga tour superstore in Katy being an option or club champion.

So a few questions,

 

1) any suggestions on where to be fit (concerned about the club champion up sell here - is it worth it?) should I prefer a Pga store?

2) what should I be noting in the fitting to find similar shafts/clubs?  I assume swing weight, kick point, flex?  Anything else?

3) is it worth it to get those preferred characteristics and then shop for shafts that fit those parameters or are all shafts so different you really have to hit it to know?

4) any recommendations for fitters in Houston area? Willing to go to Katy or sugar land or Pearland if needed

 

appreciate any insights or thoughts!

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1) pga tour superstore is going to be cheaper than CC. CC unless you tell them otherwise is going to try to use upcharge shafts and sell you on their services which will make the purchase even more expensive.  Unless doing the tour van fitting experience you may end up with a so so fitter at pga ss. 

2&3) pay attention to making a good swing eaxh time and swing your swing. Trying to make a club do something you want will only make the fitting harder.  You can not what shafts feel better than others and club heads too. Imo getting a fitting then shipping around for shafts that are similar but not the ones you were fitted for makes no sense. That’s like test driving a certain car and buying something different.  Just because shafts have similar profiles doesn’t mean they will work with for your swing with the clubhead you choose.  

 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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10 minutes ago, Bryndom said:

1) any suggestions on where to be fit (concerned about the club champion up sell here - is it worth it?) should I prefer a Pga store?

2) what should I be noting in the fitting to find similar shafts/clubs?  I assume swing weight, kick point, flex?  Anything else?

3) is it worth it to get those preferred characteristics and then shop for shafts that fit those parameters or are all shafts so different you really have to hit it to know?

First piece of advice is go into the fitting knowing what your goals are from the fitting.  To get the best experience you should educate yourself as much as possible and ask questions, they are working for you since you are paying for the fitting. 

1.  Club Champion is fine as long as you understand their model.  You can take the specs they fit you too and generally buy the clubs cheaper in the open market.  What CC will tell you is that they buy the clubs and shafts separate and reassemble them to ensure that you get each club to perfectly match your specs and also do shaft puring.  So when you buy from them you are paying for a complete set of clubs from the manufacturer (including shafts), new shafts, shaft puring, and their labor.  The advantage over something like a PGASS is that you will be able to get shafts outside what is normally available from an OEM and what they happen to have in their fitting carts.  The most important thing is to be open in what you are looking to achieve and if you have a budget.   To give you an example of costs,  I was fit for TM P790 which were $1300, KBS Tour shafts at $55 each, Tour Velvet Grips at $9, and $30 per club for puring.   I could purchase the clubs in the open market for the $1300 without puring.  Some people will say puring helps,  others will say it does nothing with newer shaft manufacturing techniques. 

2.  You should get specs from the fitting as well as the numbers from all the shafts and heads you tried if you use club champion so you will be able to compare performance; you don't need to note anything.  If you plan on buying outside of CC, try to avoid the exotic shafts that they may put you into.  Ask questions of your fitter.

3.  You can try to match shafts to other manufacturers,  but I wouldn't buy blind without trying what you substitute.  Specs between manufacturers generally don;'t line up 100%.   See my response to number 2,  see if you can stay away from try exotic shafts.  

Are you doing full bag or just specific clubs?  If you are doing full bag,  it will be a long day hitting lots of balls.  Take your time and try to use your normal swing.  You will be comparing your gamer to the new clubs so you will see head to head comparisons,  ignore the fact that they go farther or shorter than you think they go on the course.  

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Plan on doing a full bag fitting (mostly just curious what works best for me).  I don’t plan on buying anything but a driver this season as my irons are really only 2 yrs old (unless I’m really using something way off).  I got a putter last year and absolutely won’t be replacing that one yet.

 

im a data geek, so seeing how my results are changed by different club/shaft configs is important.  I’m not a good golfer but have in the past just picked my traditional oem’s latest game improvement clubs.  I really question if they are best for me (should I be in graphite, should I be in sgi, is Callaway they best style club for me)?  

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I appreciate all the feedback; I am happy to be upfront about my cost and desires...  should I just say I am willing to look at more exotic driver and wood shafts but want stock or oem provided up sell options for irons?

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There's been a recent Q&A on a Club Champion fitting session. I've added a comment there also.

 

 

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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Just talk with the fitter when they come up with options.  An exotic wood shaft can be $400+ and if you are willing to go that route it can be an option.   As for the irons,  I would tell them that you are primarily interested in finding an iron shaft that works for you but doesn't break the bank. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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My fitting at CC was mentioned above. I wish I had thought to post a post like yours beforehand!

My advice based on my experience:

1) Take your time. They seem to like to move pretty quickly - but my full bag fitting could have gone 3 1/2 hours and only took 2 1/2. I probably would have done well to take a couple of breaks.

2) Depending on your budget for the driver - you might think about having them show you the "best" and then ask for other shaft options that would get close but be significantly cheaper. I wasn't ready to spend $1000+ on a driver - but that's where I ended up - so it wasn't a worthwhile part of the fitting.

3) Given my comment in #1, I would ask to hit more brands of heads. On my driver, I ended up hitting Titleist and Srixon (which were both very nice) - but really wish now that I had hit the Ping G400 and G400Max. 

4) I don't know if it matters much to you - but my CC didn't have A) the new Cobra F9 or B) the new Gen2 PXG drivers which are way cheaper than their Gen1's. In retrospect I would have like to have hit those brands too. 

5) DON'T feel like you have to buy on the spot. In my case the fitter offered 10% off the iron heads and a refund of the full bag fee if I would buy on the spot. Since that might happen to you - you might want to consider your response in advance to any "pressure" to buy. 

6) The TRACKMAN data is really cool - they can send you that in a link to TRACKMAN's cloud app. I would ask them to label each combo of head and shaft very distinctly as it will make it easier for you to use the data after the fact. I've been playing with my data a lot this weekend. Fascinating. They didn't offer to send the putter fitting data - but I'm sending an email to the fitter asking for that too. You may want to hit that in advance. 

Best of luck - it's a really interesting experience. 

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The fitting process is a lot of fun especially when hitting on the track man. Keep in mind not all fitters are made the same so making yourself as knowledgeable as possible prior to your fitting is a most. Another thing to consider is will the fitter make adjustments at no additional cost if the fitting doesn’t perform on the course as it did in a sterile hitting bay? The best way to be fitted is on real grass with real balls. I have yet to see Justin Thomas walk up to his 280 drive, drop a hitting mat on the course then hit 10 balls into the green. I guess what I’m trying to say is trackman data is great but it only tells part of the story.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Miura MB 502 Irons

ping G400 Driver

Cobra F7 3 wood

Mizuno putter

Mizuno Wedges. 

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I’ve been a long time hacker of the golf club and have decided this year to take the plunge and get fitted for clubs.  I have a few questions about it and hope the folks on here could help me out.
 
I have a reservation at club champion here locally in Houston because I wanted to be oem agnostic and find the best manufacturer for me (be it pxg or tour exotics I care much more about performance than labels).
 
I tried hitting at golf galaxy and felt total pressure from them to hurry up and buy; their limited selection didn’t help and it almost felt like they were getting a bonus to move extra stock at the eoy instead of picking what works best for me.  i am similarly concerned about going to a oem specific fitter as they are really going to fit only their equipment and I really am not sure which will work best for me.  
 
I do have the luxury in Houston of pga tour superstore in Katy being an option or club champion.
So a few questions,
 
1) any suggestions on where to be fit (concerned about the club champion up sell here - is it worth it?) should I prefer a Pga store?
2) what should I be noting in the fitting to find similar shafts/clubs?  I assume swing weight, kick point, flex?  Anything else?
3) is it worth it to get those preferred characteristics and then shop for shafts that fit those parameters or are all shafts so different you really have to hit it to know?
4) any recommendations for fitters in Houston area? Willing to go to Katy or sugar land or Pearland if needed
 
appreciate any insights or thoughts!



Just got a brand new putter and custom built iron set from CC.

1.) CC is running a 50% off full bag fitting and 33% off any individual fitting until end of January. Is it expensive? Yes. But the fitter I had at CC was awesome. Very thorough and I can tell you that my iron striking has become a night and day difference. I’ve been fitted at a local shop and think CC was a significant difference, for the better.

2.) You’ll work with the Cc fitter through your current set up. Then you’ll find heads that produce the suggested spin, speed, etc. Once you narrow down the head, you then go through shafts. Then you get your final result. Don’t feel obligated to buy from them. I saved $1k by buying direct through Srixon vs CC. Granted my shafts were not “pured” and my swing weight was not adjusted.

3.) I believe the shaft can make or break the club head. The shaft can produce significantly different ball flights, spin, speed, etc. Shafts are a HUGE difference maker. I suggest hitting different shafts to see what diff they make for your ball flight.

4.) Club Champion


Good luck and keep us updated on your results!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver:    :taylormade-small: M4 10.5* / Evenflow Blue 6.0 Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Woods: :taylormade-small: M6 3W 15* / Evenflow Blue 6.0 Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Hybrid: :taylormade-small: M4 Rescue 19* / KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 85g Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Irons:    :srixon-small:  Z585 4-AW / KBS Tour 90 - Regular +1" / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Wedges:cleveland-small: CBX - 56* & 60* / KBS Hi Rev 2.0 - Regular +1" / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma 2 Tyne 4 Platinum / Superstroke Pistol

Ball:    :taylormade-small: Project a

Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer 14

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I have nothing to add other than good luck and be sure to report back on your experience.

I’m kind of stunned that jefframm wasn’t offered a Ping G400 head and shaft combo to try. If not the best seller it was certainly the hottest and most successful driver last year.

I suspect that no one is truly brand agnostic.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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1 hour ago, revkev said:

I have nothing to add other than good luck and be sure to report back on your experience.

I’m kind of stunned that jefframm wasn’t offered a Ping G400 head and shaft combo to try. If not the best seller it was certainly the hottest and most successful driver last year.

I suspect that no one is truly brand agnostic.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Agree on g400. I was talking to my fitter when I ordered my new 3w and he said many guys weren’t interested in g400 when they came in for fittings and after he asked what they were interested in he would ask if he could bring one more out. Everyone was surprised at how good the g400 was and how easy it was to hit.

i also agree most aren’t agnostic whether it’s due to being in staff or personal preferences. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I just came back from a CC fitting at their MD location, the experience was well worth the fee (Full bag fitting). Started by warming up, then baselining my irons then moved on to a head that generically suited my game, I hit that head with 5 different shafts until it was clear that there was a preferred option.  I then started hitting different heads that suited me with the preferred shaft. One thing I did that I'd recommend, I occasionally switched back to my gamer to ensure that my swing wasn't just loosening up etc. The data pack was very good. See attached for an example of my 6i. This is probably the set up I'm going for. The Mizuno 919 forged. As much as I liked the MP18SC looks, the numbers below were better for spin and peak height, even though I hit the MP18SC further, my spin on a 6i was 4700, so way too low.

A similar process was done with my Driver (advice was to keep what I have) , changing up my 3w and made a hosel adjustment to my 3h. He then checked and adjusted my wedges to ensure proper gapping (he bent one for me that was 2º of stated loft. We then went on to a session in the SAM put lab, which showed that I was a tendency to have a touch too much shaft lean, resulting in a strike a little high. A small set up adjustment was made, but putter stayed the same. 

They will offer shaft pureing, some folks like it, some say with modern shafts it's a waste of $. Titleist,  for example don't subscribe to it at all, in fact I was astonished that they were so vocal in their disdain for it and it's lack of value. I opted just to take the specs and shop the product elsewhere. 

All in all, a good experience, well worth the time, and the Jan offer of 1/2 price on the full bag makes it worth while. 

Good luck and enjoy it! 

 

Dan

1783844975_Screenshot2019-01-1107_36_06.png.5209e7bd1db1322c297f2eef397493a4.png

Screenshot 2019-01-11 07.37.31.png

My mixed bag

  • :titelist-small: TS2 Matrix Ozik Black Tie XS
  • :callaway-small:Rogue 3W MCA C6 Blue Stiff, + 1/2"
  • :titelist-small:816 19º Hybrid Aldilia Tour Green S +1/2"
  • :mizuno-small:JPX 919Forged 4&5 919 Tour 6-PW Project X LZ 6.0 +1/2" 1º Upright. 
  • :vokey-small: SM8 50º Project x LZ 6.0 +3/4"
  • :cleveland-small:RTX 4&ZipCore 54º 60º wedge Flex +3/4"
  • Scott Readman Concepts IKBII (Google them - they are amazing) 
  • :titelist-small: left dash -ProV1X or :srixon-small: Z Star XV
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7 minutes ago, Daniel339 said:

I just came back from a CC fitting at their MD location, the experience was well worth the fee (Full bag fitting). Started by warming up, then baselining my irons then moved on to a head that generically suited my game, I hit that head with 5 different shafts until it was clear that there was a preferred option.  I then started hitting different heads that suited me with the preferred shaft. One thing I did that I'd recommend, I occasionally switched back to my gamer to ensure that my swing wasn't just loosening up etc. The data pack was very good. See attached for an example of my 6i. This is probably the set up I'm going for. The Mizuno 919 forged. As much as I liked the MP18SC looks, the numbers below were better for spin and peak height, even though I hit the MP18SC further, my spin on a 6i was 4700, so way too low.

A similar process was done with my Driver (advice was to keep what I have) , changing up my 3w and made a hosel adjustment to my 3h. He then checked and adjusted my wedges to ensure proper gapping (he bent one for me that was 2º of stated loft. We then went on to a session in the SAM put lab, which showed that I was a tendency to have a touch too much shaft lean, resulting in a strike a little high. A small set up adjustment was made, but putter stayed the same. 

They will offer shaft pureing, some folks like it, some say with modern shafts it's a waste of $. Titleist,  for example don't subscribe to it at all, in fact I was astonished that they were so vocal in their disdain for it and it's lack of value. I opted just to take the specs and shop the product elsewhere. 

All in all, a good experience, well worth the time, and the Jan offer of 1/2 price on the full bag makes it worth while. 

Good luck and enjoy it! 

 

Dan

1783844975_Screenshot2019-01-1107_36_06.png.5209e7bd1db1322c297f2eef397493a4.png

Screenshot 2019-01-11 07.37.31.png

Those look like some pretty solid numbers to me, all across the board.  Nicely done.  Curious what shaft ended up working best for you in the 919 Forged.  And FWIW form this non fitter, I agree completely about the pureng, and have had others OEM say the same thing.  I think you did it perfect, get your specs and go get the irons done at a more reasonable price. 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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Thanks, the shaft I ended up in was the Project x LZ 6.0, I was told that I could go for the X-stiff, but if ever I played 36 in a day (which has been known to happen!!) I'd be better with the stiff! I tried the KBS Tours, Lite 110's,  Nippon Modus 120's that I recall plus a couple of other Project X variants. 

My mixed bag

  • :titelist-small: TS2 Matrix Ozik Black Tie XS
  • :callaway-small:Rogue 3W MCA C6 Blue Stiff, + 1/2"
  • :titelist-small:816 19º Hybrid Aldilia Tour Green S +1/2"
  • :mizuno-small:JPX 919Forged 4&5 919 Tour 6-PW Project X LZ 6.0 +1/2" 1º Upright. 
  • :vokey-small: SM8 50º Project x LZ 6.0 +3/4"
  • :cleveland-small:RTX 4&ZipCore 54º 60º wedge Flex +3/4"
  • Scott Readman Concepts IKBII (Google them - they are amazing) 
  • :titelist-small: left dash -ProV1X or :srixon-small: Z Star XV
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First off, whatever you do, good luck. 

The only other advice I have is to make sure to tell the fitter what you want. Obviously, don't be rude, but YOU are the customer, and the fitter is there to help you. If you want to try the PING and the fitter hasn't had you try it yet, speak up and say, "hey, can I try the G400?". If you want to stay under $3000 for the full bag, say it. The fitter should be able to adjust to your requests, or he may not be the best fitter for you. 

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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As promised, here is my review of Club Champion, Houston...

 

TLDR:  A great fitting experience.  I learned a lot about my swing and equipment, what works and what doesn't and most likely why.  I took advantage of the 1/2 off for a full bag fitting (even though I won't be changing much of my bag).  No pressure (or perhaps low pressure) to buy, I was focused on lookin at my driver and 3 wood.

 

Had my fitting today.  I was totally late. Due to an email snafu, I did not get the customary advance notice emails.  I saw on my calendar I had a fitting today, but thought it was at like 1 pm.  I called 15 mins before they opened and Chris, my fitter, informed me that I had a fitting in 15 minutes.  I was working out at the time, so had to pack up the weights and get dressed and ran out the door (fortunately, with my clubs).

Introduction

Chris was completely relax and laid back during the entire fitting.  I cannot overstate how relaxed that made me in turn (especially since my OCD was going haywire at being late).  It immediately put me at ease and made it a lot easier to get fitted.  Chris asked me what my priorities were for getting fitted and I laid out what I cared about - Driver, Woods, Irons, then wedges/putter last.  Chris was respectful of my priorities and we got to work after a brief warm up.

 

Background/My Bag

To set the stage, all of my equipment was OEM stock.  I have purchased regular flex in everything and base iron shafts for my irons.  No customization, and no tweaks for lie/loft/bias.

 

As I've always been fearful of going too far out there, I've been pretty loyal to the OEMs

Driver - Callaway GBB Epic - 10.5 loft, Regular

3 Wood - Callaway, GBB 3 Wood, Regular

5 Wood - Callaway GBB Epic 5 Wood, Regular

3Hybrid - Callaway XR OSS, Regular

5 Hybrid - Callaway XR OSS, Regular

6 - PW Iron - Callaway Epic, Steel

56 Wedge - Callaway Mack Daddy 4 Black

60 Wedge - Callaway Mack Daddy 4 Black

64 Wedge - Callaway Mack Daddy 4 Black

Putter - Titelist Scotty Cameron 2 Select Mallet (2016)

 

I included my bag as the review includes what works and what (obviously doesn't) for my swing.

Swing Characteristics

MPH - I am about an 80-90 MPH club head swing (yeah, I'm 42... damn.)

Swing Path (in to out for irons, more out to in than i'd like for woods/driver)

Launch - I launch the ball high, with a LOT of backspin... Our goal was to reduce backspin while lowering, just a bit the launch characteristics

 

Fitting Process

Chris showed me the Trackman settings so I know they didn’t jack with the performance (not that it would have mattered as we were comparing everything to my swings with my gamers - raising the altitude to increase distance would have equally applied to my gamers).  Fortunately, everything was set at near sea level and at 75 degrees.

Irons


As I expected, we started with irons after a quick warm up.  What was unexpected, was my efficiency with the Callaway Epic irons.  I was hitting them an average of 1.45 to 1.47 smash factor on the 6 iron.  It wasn't going the distance I'd like, as I was hitting on trackman about 150s-160s yards with a club head speed in the 80s.  Chris quickly noted that getting more efficiency out of other club heads was going to be troubling, but he'd try.  We noticed an inconsistency in the path of the ball, which was something Chris wanted to focus on.

 

We reviewed the data and it was obvious my path is very shallow from the top of the swing through impact.  Ironically, it seems I'm able to correct that shallowness in the downswing and was properly delofting my clubs.  I was getting a dynamic loft of 24-26 degrees on the 6 iron, so my impact characteristics were good.

 

We tried a number of shafts and ended up in a bit lighter, and stiffer shaft (given my swing speed and torque, I needed a lighter shaft but that had more stiffness to convey energy to the ball).  While this did not improve distance (much, maybe 5 yards on average), I was MUCH more consistent in getting the club head to the ball.   


We then tried a few new club heads (APEX, TaylorMade, Ping), but none came close to my gamers.  The result we landed on was to keep my iron heads, but consider swapping out the shafts.

 

Driver

 

This is where Chris earned his $$$.  My Callaway GBB Epic was just so poorly fit for me.  I was getting upper 190s/low 200s in my drives and it was obvious the spin was the culprit.   We switched shafts to many different shafts on my gamer, to keep the variables consistent (just changing shafts) and landed on one that felt and seemed to work best - VA Composites Drago 55 Regular Flex.  This shaft seemed best fit for me as it was a lighter shaft, but had a stiffer tip and butt.  This made it far easier to control and it showed in the results.  I gained about 15 yards on the same strikes with the new shaft.

We then went in search of a different club head as my efficiency was still lower than expected (1.38 - 1.40).  I tried the Callaway Epic Flash and I swear I am now partially deaf in one ear.  That bloody thing was so loud I felt like I needed noise cancelling headphones like at the gun range to use it and I told Chris if he had to fit people into it all year, he should put in for disability insurance.  3 hrs later and my ears are still ringing.... the bloody thing is a menace....(and this from a multi-year long time Callaway buyer).  Just my $0.02 but still (and yeah, was hitting indoors so it's louder than outside, and still... ).

Then I hit the Cobra F9...  What a thing of beauty (avalanche colors, not the garish Porsche wannabe)...  It was the fastest with ball speed (> 130 mph, club head speed), most distance and a 1.47-1.49 smash factor.  After 2 hits I knew it was the one, and loved every strike with this club.

Chris knew it as well, but we tried some additional clubs (TM, etc) just to be certain.  Finally, a decent driver for my bag.

 

Woods

I normally hate woods, nay, I loathe them.  I told Chris (no joke), I keep the 3 wood in my bag so when I get utterly pissed off at a shot and I need to throw something in the lake or snap it on my knee, I have an expendable club.  The golf tees and the candy wrappers in my golf bag have more value to me than the 3 wood.

After 1-2 shots it was obvious this was NOT my club.  I killed so many virtual worms on the trackman simulator, I felt bad for them...  We shifted out of my gamer shaft to the new one and the results improved somewhat but was still topping it.  We then tried the Cobra F9 fairways...this was closer..but still left some yards on the table.  Ping G400s, oddly  have a squatter, flatter base.  With my shallow swing and my AOA, this was MUCH easier to hit off the deck.

Hybrids

I hit my gamers and was regularly getting 1.45+ smash factor.  Chris gave it a valiant effort, but nothing came even close.  We quickly agreed to move on and not touch them.

Wedges

Same thing here... I was hitting the wedges so good, there was nothing we would add to the game by changing them so Chris suggested that we not even bother.  This really actually endeared me to CC, as with Iron heads, hybrids and wedges, it was clear we weren't going to get benefits from changing things substantially.  Chris encouraged me to keep those clubs.

Putter

Starting out, I told Chris I didn't plan on changing my gamer.  I love my Scotty and have it dialed in where I like it.  I sunk 7 out of the 10 (12 footer) putts.  3 I left short by 2 - 3 inches and at least one was on the verge of falling in.  I naturally deloft my putter 1-2 degrees for control and due to my stroke and it just works with the Scotty...

The analysis showed that my stroke was good except maybe the angle of the putter was a little low (the sweet spot was between 30-45 degrees and the Scotty was at 30).

I asked Chris to try something more in the analysis sweet spot, to try it out.  The first Ping blade he gave me was MEH.  Did not like it.  I have found over the years that lighter putters cause me to move and flick my wrists more than I'd like, so I prefer the heavier putters as it feels like I don't have to work much, but let the MOI and gravity perform it's magic.

Chris then showed me a Bettinardi Queen Bee 5 putter.  This immediately felt fantastic (even better than my Scotty which surprised me), and I holed 9 out of 10....  This is difficult because I wasn't planning on changing this and even though there was marginal improvement, it felt... natural, like I wasn't forcing anything.

 

Summary

I ordered the driver and am reviewing options on the rest.  I cannot say enough good things about the fitting or Chris (and I'd highly recommend him to anyone looking to get fit in the Houston area).  This was a great experience and one I'd repeat in a heartbeat given the chance.  The clubs are crazy pricey, but my experience at Club Champion, there wasn't a used club salesman experience others have reported.  Chris was laid back and was willing to talk things through and when I pushed back he was respectful and understanding.

 

The Epic Flash still makes me shudder hours later.  They should have put a sound/cringe algo into that supercomputer......

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Very good review. Glad it worked out for you. Here's to more birdies!

Did he say anything about the smash on yours irons? 1.45-1.47 is otherworldly for a 6 iron. (Tour AVG is 1.38)

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

 :titleist-small:           ProV1 #23

Twitter             @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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He was very surprised at the efficiency.  Said it was very difficult to fit me in anything else, due to the numbers showing.  I was naturally delofting the clubs, which lead to a higher efficiency than otherwise I would have expected.  The limiting factor for me was club head speed, it was much lower than it should be.  My shallower plane but still getting the club back in a natural groove path in the downswing helped impart a lot more energy than someone may have otherwise been able to.  However, the shallower swing also left a lot of club head speed on the table as well as my wrists naturally flatten so its hard to maintain wrist hinge and power through., so there's a tradeoff for my swing I need to dial in...

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Just now, Bryndom said:

He was very surprised at the efficiency.  Said it was very difficult to fit me in anything else, due to the numbers showing.  I was naturally delofting the clubs, which lead to a higher efficiency than otherwise I would have expected.  The limiting factor for me was club head speed, it was much lower than it should be.  My shallower plane but still getting the club back in a natural groove path in the downswing helped impart a lot more energy than someone may have otherwise been able to.  However, the shallower swing also left a lot of club head speed on the table as well as my wrists naturally flatten so its hard to maintain wrist hinge and power through., so there's a tradeoff for my swing I need to dial in...

Trackman isn't the best at picking up clubhead speed especially with irons. You should only really focus on ballspeed because if clubhead speed is off, than smash factor will be incorrect 

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Fair enough.  Agree on the inside swing data; it was a concern from the outset.  I neglected to say earlier that my efficiency consistently showed in higher ball speed data (though even that may be suspect indoors).  I accepted the limitation when I went in and one reason to review so many choices was to eliminate as many variables as possible during the process...

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I am going to CC next month for a driver fitting in DC.  It will be my first true fitting aside from my clubs demo day where the rep fits you.  I am interested in seeing my ball speed and smash factor as well.  I tend to hit my driver long (275 carry), but lately I have been spraying the ball all over.  I know most of it is me, but in speaking with the pro at my course who is also a good friend, he told me that I should get a more forgiving driver.  I currently have a Callaway XR16 Pro.  He told me that the head is a beast as long as I hit it in the middle.  He said it is not the most forgiving clubs.  So, naturally I am now going to test out as many of the new clubs as I can, trying to focus on ball speed and strike location.  I will post the results next month, one question though...do you tip the fitters?

   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: image.png.cf6ab25979c6727ff31e6cc6f719636c.png TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex

     Irons:  :callaway-small: 5-7  Apex forged 19 w/ Modus 120 X

                         9-A Apex Pro 19 w/ Modus 120 X

Wedges:  :callaway-small: MD5 52&56 Jaws Dynamic Gold wedge flex

    Putter: :titelist-small: Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5 34"

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I am going to CC next month for a driver fitting in DC.  It will be my first true fitting aside from my clubs demo day where the rep fits you.  I am interested in seeing my ball speed and smash factor as well.  I tend to hit my driver long (275 carry), but lately I have been spraying the ball all over.  I know most of it is me, but in speaking with the pro at my course who is also a good friend, he told me that I should get a more forgiving driver.  I currently have a Callaway XR16 Pro.  He told me that the head is a beast as long as I hit it in the middle.  He said it is not the most forgiving clubs.  So, naturally I am now going to test out as many of the new clubs as I can, trying to focus on ball speed and strike location.  I will post the results next month, one question though...do you tip the fitters?


No- they are hourly (I believe) plus commissions. They make their dough from you buying clubs.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver:    :taylormade-small: M4 10.5* / Evenflow Blue 6.0 Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Woods: :taylormade-small: M6 3W 15* / Evenflow Blue 6.0 Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Hybrid: :taylormade-small: M4 Rescue 19* / KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 85g Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Irons:    :srixon-small:  Z585 4-AW / KBS Tour 90 - Regular +1" / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Wedges:cleveland-small: CBX - 56* & 60* / KBS Hi Rev 2.0 - Regular +1" / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma 2 Tyne 4 Platinum / Superstroke Pistol

Ball:    :taylormade-small: Project a

Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer 14

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Unfortunately, if you are looking to get fitted and find out your true numbers, you need to find someone who is not trying to sell golf clubs to you.  I just attended a fitting I gave my wife for Christmas at Club Champion for a full bag.  To say it was a terrible experience and a disappointing one would be an understatement.  The fitter was nice, but at no point did he ask her her goals; nor, did he check for the following items:  Her height, club length, proper lie angle, lofts to measure for gaps in club distances, grip size or swing weight.  How the hell do you measure or fit someone without those elements is beyond me.  What they did do; however, is grab club heads and shafts and start telling her the differences in spin rates and distances with those and that is about it.  And, I am being generous.  I cannot for the life of me understand why Ledbetter and Hainey would put their reputations on the line for that company, except they must be getting paid a pretty penny for endorsements.  Take my advice.  Get a local PGA professional or club builder to fit you.  I can assure you, you will be very happy whether you get the results you want or not, because you will save a few hundred dollars in the deal.

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On 1/24/2019 at 11:09 PM, No3PuttLaLa said:

 


No- they are hourly (I believe) plus commissions. They make their dough from you buying clubs.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Thanks, but I will not be buying my clubs from them...waaaay to expensive.

   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: image.png.cf6ab25979c6727ff31e6cc6f719636c.png TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex

     Irons:  :callaway-small: 5-7  Apex forged 19 w/ Modus 120 X

                         9-A Apex Pro 19 w/ Modus 120 X

Wedges:  :callaway-small: MD5 52&56 Jaws Dynamic Gold wedge flex

    Putter: :titelist-small: Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5 34"

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14 hours ago, HoganFan said:

Unfortunately, if you are looking to get fitted and find out your true numbers, you need to find someone who is not trying to sell golf clubs to you.  I just attended a fitting I gave my wife for Christmas at Club Champion for a full bag.  To say it was a terrible experience and a disappointing one would be an understatement.  The fitter was nice, but at no point did he ask her her goals; nor, did he check for the following items:  Her height, club length, proper lie angle, lofts to measure for gaps in club distances, grip size or swing weight.  How the hell do you measure or fit someone without those elements is beyond me.  What they did do; however, is grab club heads and shafts and start telling her the differences in spin rates and distances with those and that is about it.  And, I am being generous.  I cannot for the life of me understand why Ledbetter and Hainey would put their reputations on the line for that company, except they must be getting paid a pretty penny for endorsements.  Take my advice.  Get a local PGA professional or club builder to fit you.  I can assure you, you will be very happy whether you get the results you want or not, because you will save a few hundred dollars in the deal.

I was able to get a free driver fitting through CC from a friend of mine, I am primarily interested to see what shaft I should be in now that I am getting older and ball speed coming off of a new driver face.  Once I find that out, I will then go to my local pro and talk to him (friend of mine) and see what he thinks.  I also have another friend that is extremely knowledgeable (used to play on the Nationwide Tour) and I will talk to him about as well before I pull the trigger on buying a new club.  Clubs are too expensive now to just go and drop cash just because.

   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: image.png.cf6ab25979c6727ff31e6cc6f719636c.png TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex

     Irons:  :callaway-small: 5-7  Apex forged 19 w/ Modus 120 X

                         9-A Apex Pro 19 w/ Modus 120 X

Wedges:  :callaway-small: MD5 52&56 Jaws Dynamic Gold wedge flex

    Putter: :titelist-small: Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5 34"

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For the Houston area folks, I highly recommend Impact Precision Golf near 1960/45 on the north side of town. They didn't push me one bit to buy but I got to try out a bunch of different brands, even for poops and giggles. They have the trackman and an incredible amount of inventory to try out for your fitting. 

Major did my driver fitting and while we couldn't find anything that really stood out, he suggested that if I wanted to do any sort of upgrades, it would be to swap out my Aldila Tour Green 65TX to an Oban Black 65 05 Flex tipped 1". He went through the science of various shafts and what to look for in numbers and overall feel of the shaft. It was truly eye opening. 

Here's what I would recommend...if you're in the initial stages of wanting to upgrade, be on the lookout in the spring for demo days at area courses. Yes, even the public courses have great demo days from a lot of vendors. Then if you're ready to buy but don't want to spend a lot, go get a simple fitting at the course or at a PGA SS. If you want to fine tune your equipment, then go to Impact Precision Golf or a Club Champion. 

Cobra Connect 5 Competitor - Team Chad

  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed 10.5* w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 60 6.5 tipped 1/2" - Peacoat/Red
  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed Big Tour 3 Wood w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 70 6.5 Tipped 1/2"
  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed Tour 5 Wood w/ Motore X F1 70 X Flex 
  • :cobra-small: King Utility 4 21* w/ Tensei Pro White 100 X Flex
  • :cobra-small: King Tour MIM Copper Irons 5-G w/ AMT White X100 Onyx
  • :cobra-small: King MIM Black Wedges 55* & 60* w/ AMT White X100 Onyx
  • :taylormade-small: Spider SR
  • :titelist-small: Pro V1x Left Dash
  • Lefty
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