MPR: The Single Digit Project

[GolfSpy MPR]

Continuing to work on my putting and short game; we're back to subzero temperatures here, and so hitting in the garage creates problems. It's cold on the hands (even wearing two gloves), and I have no idea how much to trust anything from SkyTrak when I'm playing with (literally) frozen balls and clubs.

But I have definitely noticed a problematic tendency that's creeping into my new swing: consistent toe strikes. That is a new thing for me; if anything, my strike pattern has historically been heel-based, with the occasional shank tossed in to confirm that I'm hitting too close to the heel.

But now nearly everything is on the toe. And those with a toe-biased pattern know this: toe shots feel terrible. And for me, they tend to accentuate my big miss, which is a giant hook.

What's the cause? Consider these pictures. The first is my address and impact position from last July, when I first received my G700s:

Holy high handle delivery, Batman!

And this is my address and impact (admittedly, without a ball) from a couple of weeks ago:

[Pardon me while I admire that second picture for a minute.]

Now, there's still some work to do on that second picture: I still haven't solved my tendency of tipping my head and upper body toward the ball as I swing, which I suspect is a factor in trying to make consistent contact.

But I love the shaft position at impact. It is so much more shallow than the "before" picture. But I think that this is what is leading to the toe strikes. Imagine soling a club behind a ball, and then raise the shaft. What you've just done is move the strike point toward the heel. Look at how far my hands have gotten from my body in the "before" picture, and how much closer they are to my body in the "now" picture. By shallowing out my swing, I've moved my strike point toward the toe.

So it'll be back to the foot powder spray for me, trying to teach myself where the swing need to come through the ball to make center-face impact.

[TR1PTIK]

What does your path looks like when you see toe strikes? I don't recall off the top of my head if SkyTrak gives you any amount of club data besides club speed and AoA, but I've read that toe strikes can sometimes be caused by an out-to-in path and my experience seems to reflect this. Another thing to consider based on the images provided is that the high hands move of your old swing would work the heel closer to the ball and now you're moving in the opposite direction. Could be that you just need to position yourself a little closer to the ball (and it will feel uncomfortable at first).

[GolfSpy MPR]

12 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

What does your path looks like when you see toe strikes? I don't recall off the top of my head if SkyTrak gives you any amount of club data besides club speed and AoA, but I've read that toe strikes can sometimes be caused by an out-to-in path and my experience seems to reflect this. Another thing to consider based on the images provided is that the high hands move of your old swing would work the heel closer to the ball and now you're moving in the opposite direction. Could be that you just need to position yourself a little closer to the ball (and it will feel uncomfortable at first).

SkyTrak doesn't give club data. I'm planning to get my SwingByte on my club and do some swings to get swing path data.

[null]

Interesting results for you with the toe strikes.  Improving my rotation has actually eliminated most of my crazy toe strikes and moved my contact closer to the heel!

[CarlH]

I'm not one that is going to give out advice to anyone, but I do offer my support in your quest.  It's good to have specific and realistic goals and a path to achieve them.  Kudos to you!  I was single digit for 15 years before some annoying surgeries got me away from the game and I lost my short game.  Working on it now and seeing good promise.

I will offer this, however, as it's my constant mantra to myself --- tempo, tempo, tempo.

Good luck!  

[perseveringgolfer]

41 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

 

And this is my address and impact (admittedly, without a ball) from a couple of weeks ago:

[Pardon me while I admire that second picture for a minute.]

 

Now if you can just find a course with pews down each side of the fairway you'll be in heaven (not literally)

[M. Parsons]

@GolfSpy MPR What camera and/or app are you using to combine those still frames? 

By the way, I've always found it difficult to get out on the course on Sunday's due to wanting to go to church...so good on you for combining the 2 things I love.  

[GolfSpy MPR]

Just now, M. Parsons said:

@GolfSpy MPR What camera and/or app are you using to combine those still frames? 

By the way, I've always found it difficult to get out on the course on Sunday's due to wanting to go to church...so good on you for combining the 2 things I love.  

My process is clunky but effective.

I'm on my computer. I open the video in YouTube and step through to get it on the frame I want (the < and > keys on your keyboard let you advance and back up a frame at a time). I hit "Print Screen" to get a screen shot.

Paste the whole thing into Photoshop. Crop it. Advance the video in YouTube to impact; screenshot; paste as a new layer, with the opacity set at 40%.

That last bit is the key: if you can paste a layer into whatever software you use and then change its opacity, you should be golden.

[edingc]

On 2/21/2019 at 8:05 AM, jlukes said:

I would seriously suggest getting a board or mat to put under your feet to give yourself an even lie.  Right now you are practicing chipping with the ball consistently one inch above your feet which could cause some bad habits when you get to some neutral lies.

One of my biggest concerns with my little mat in the basement...

Keep at it, @GolfSpy MPR. Love following your progress. We'll eventually have playable weather in Michigan.

[GB13]

12 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Continuing to work on my putting and short game; we're back to subzero temperatures here, and so hitting in the garage creates problems. It's cold on the hands (even wearing two gloves), and I have no idea how much to trust anything from SkyTrak when I'm playing with (literally) frozen balls and clubs.

But I have definitely noticed a problematic tendency that's creeping into my new swing: consistent toe strikes. That is a new thing for me; if anything, my strike pattern has historically been heel-based, with the occasional shank tossed in to confirm that I'm hitting too close to the heel.

But now nearly everything is on the toe. And those with a toe-biased pattern know this: toe shots feel terrible. And for me, they tend to accentuate my big miss, which is a giant hook.

What's the cause? Consider these pictures. The first is my address and impact position from last July, when I first received my G700s:

Holy high handle delivery, Batman!

And this is my address and impact (admittedly, without a ball) from a couple of weeks ago:

[Pardon me while I admire that second picture for a minute.]

Now, there's still some work to do on that second picture: I still haven't solved my tendency of tipping my head and upper body toward the ball as I swing, which I suspect is a factor in trying to make consistent contact.

But I love the shaft position at impact. It is so much more shallow than the "before" picture. But I think that this is what is leading to the toe strikes. Imagine soling a club behind a ball, and then raise the shaft. What you've just done is move the strike point toward the heel. Look at how far my hands have gotten from my body in the "before" picture, and how much closer they are to my body in the "now" picture. By shallowing out my swing, I've moved my strike point toward the toe.

So it'll be back to the foot powder spray for me, trying to teach myself where the swing need to come through the ball to make center-face impact.

One thing I'm noticing, (obviously not an instructor), is the on your actual swing is that you body has moved significantly toward the ball (in the picture to the right). I do think that is causing you to stand the shaft up, because if you stand where you are at impact the shaft will be that upright. I'd suggest trying to keep your hips farther away from the ball at impact. 

 

(Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a looooong day.) 

Edited March 7, 2019 by GB13

[GB13]

26 minutes ago, GB13 said:

One thing I'm noticing, (obviously not an instructor), is the on your actual swing is that you body has moved significantly toward the ball (in the picture to the right). I do think that is causing you to stand the shaft up, because if you stand where you are at impact the shaft will be that upright. I'd suggest trying to keep your hips farther away from the ball at impact. 

 

(Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a looooong day.) 

I shouldn't post when I'm this out of it. Everything here is wrong. I'll leave it up for posterity sake. Good night everyone! 

[GolfSpy MPR]

23 minutes ago, GB13 said:

One thing I'm noticing, (obviously not an instructor), is the on your actual swing is that you body has moved significantly toward the ball (in the picture to the right). I do think that is causing you to stand the shaft up, because if you stand where you are at impact the shaft will be that upright. I'd suggest trying to keep your hips farther away from the ball at impact. 

 

(Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've had a looooong day.) 

You're exactly right about what's happening, though it is always challenging in a golf swing to sort out causes and effects. In other words, what you've said makes total sense, I just feel everything in a different way than you've described.

In my golf "feels," what I've mostly done is changed my wrist angles (avoiding left wrist extension). That wrist angle creates a neutral to closed face at the top of the swing. An over the top move from there would be unplayable left, so I'm forced from there to shallow the shaft considerably.

I'm then in a position in which standing up/moving toward the ball can't work. The only way to get the face to the ball when the club is shallowed is by rotating my body through.

I've tried in the past to fight the early extension/lunging on its own, with little success. For me, this is the first time that I've come close to keeping my hips back (still a little work to do there).

I could totally imagine another golfer whose swing looked like mine taking your description of the fix and it being exactly the way he needed to hear it to make the correction. I just found I had to start in a different place to get my body to make sense of what I was doing.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Just received my new Evnroll Tour Stroke Trainer. Definitely an odd looking putter:

I plan to write up a full review of this, especially after I use it for a while (the only way to have a meaningful opinion on a training aid). For now, I'd say that the early impressions are very impressive, both in quality and function.

I won't be shocked if it ends up in my bag for at least a couple rounds this summer.

[GolfSpy MPR]

We have temps in the 40s this week! Looking forward to getting the SkyTrak back out in the garage for some good full swing practice. I hit some balls with the SkyTrak in the garage on Saturday, but had to share my sim time with Kirke. I had hoped to do a skills assessment, but we ran out of battery on the tablet before I could get to it. I'll do one this week and post it here.

I've still been working consistently on my short game shots. Last night, I stretched out my practice to 30 yards; that's a long shot with a 7' ceiling in the basement! After doing some random practice (SkyTrak picking distances from 10–30 yards), I did a skills assessment. SkyTrak doesn't allow a full randomization in the assessment; I wish it did. I want to tell it to ask for (say) 15 shots randomly chosen from 10–30 yards, and then give me my score.

Instead, I told it to give me 3 shots each at 5 distances: 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 yards. But I scrambled those yardages. It's still not a perfect test; if I miss one long, I can make an adjustment on the next one of the same distance. Even so, I was really happy to see my results:

The best score SkyTrak will give for a shot is a +4 handicap. I put all three of my shots at the 10 yard distance close enough to earn that score, which was a great start for me. Everything else was pretty solid as well.

The practice seems to be paying off. Still at least a month (probably more) before I see a course up here, but I'm optimistic about the way things are trending.

[edingc]

Nice work! I've been doing a ton of basement chipping/pitching and the SkyTrak would be so helpful for that. Maybe next winter!

[GolfSpy MPR]

What's worse than the guy who takes you shot-by-shot through his mediocre round of golf? The guy who takes you shot-by-shot through his mediocre simulated range session!

And yet here we are.

Here's the big picture summary:

Overall, a 9.6 handicap. Obviously, that's in keeping with my single digit goal—barely. It's also not really any improvement from my golf last summer. Since I haven't done much work on my full swing lately, that isn't a surprise.

The wedge distances (40, 75, 90) were not great. For whatever reason, I was misjudging the 40 yard distance, leaving a couple really short. And then I thinned one of the 90 yard shots about 135. That'll mess up the handicap.

The major weak point was the 105/120/135 range. There were a couple of factors here. One was stubbornness: I remain convinced that these three shots should be my SW, GW, and PW respectively. But I just wasn't getting there with those clubs. I eventually caved in on the last three shots at 135, grabbing my 9i. There's more to say here, related to what follows.

From 150–190, I put up some really respectable numbers: mid-single digit handicaps on average. And I was finally getting the distances I wanted out of each club (which leads me to believe that, with tweaks, I can get those distances from the wedges). From 150, I was using my 8i; 165 was my 7i; 175 with my 6i; and 190 with my 5i. In each case, I was still (on average) just under five yards short of target, but still hitting the greens easily.

On these swings, I made one tweak to my swing which seemed to make a difference: better posture, without the shoulders hunched at address. I need to figure out why that made a difference.

The other point of focus remains my footwork. On a good swing, my feel is that I load up on my right heel, then transfer my weight from my right heel to my left heel. This facilitates keeping my hips deep and a shallow swing.

If at any point, my weight starts moving toward my toes, my hips come forward, and my swing steepens. For many, this would create a fade, but my face always ends up left, and so I get the massive pull-hook which goes off the planet. I offer this as exhibit A:

There's so much good here. I start with an OK shot. But then, three straight +4 shots (that's the best score SkyTrak gives), averaging 15 feet from the cup from 175. Then, the hook: 44(!) yards left, 132 feet from the pin, and a 36 handicap (the worst score that SkyTrak gives).

That's the big miss. That's the shot I've got to eliminate, because that's the one that goes into the woods on my course here.

Anyway, despite the mediocre results, I think it was a productive session. I hit some good shots, found some things that work, and I know what I need to continue to grind on.

[Shankster]

I am really enjoying this thread. Keep up the good work!

[cksurfdude]

On 3/6/2019 at 10:24 AM, TR1PTIK said:

Could be that you just need to position yourself a little closer to the ball (and it will feel uncomfortable at first).

Was going to suggest something similar, but not necessarily further or closer, but to experiment with ball position both in the front/back direction AND in the closer to/further from direction.

I need to start taking notes or something 'cuz I'm finding that incremental changes of ball position can have a big positive effect on quality of impact (..the proverbial "all else being equal).

And btw, MPR, very cool superimposed pictures and really liking the look of the new swing!

[GolfSpy MPR]

6 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Was going to suggest something similar, but not necessarily further or closer, but to experiment with ball position both in the front/back direction AND in the closer to/further from direction.

I need to start taking notes or something 'cuz I'm finding that incremental changes of ball position can have a big positive effect on quality of impact (..the proverbial "all else being equal).

And btw, MPR, very cool superimposed pictures and really liking the look of the new swing!

One of the biggest things that Adam Young teaches is making strike a skill. What he has found (and this makes sense) is this: take two groups of players who need to improve strike location. Tell one group to focus on hitting the center. Tell the other group to practice intentionally hitting the heel, toe, and sweet spot.

After a period of time, the second group will test better than the first in hitting the center.

He writes more about that here.

[GolfSpy MPR]

The last time I did a SkyTrak skills assessment for my full swing (minus woods), it gave me a handicap of 9.6. The weather is steadily (finally!) starting to warm up here, so I got back to the garage today.

I did the same assessment, with distances of 40, 75, 90, 105, 120, 135, 150, 165, 170, and 190. This time, I took only 3 shots at each distances instead of 5, just because of time.

Tonight's score: 8.7. Progress! I went from 74% of greens hit to 77%.

The 105 and 120 shots were still awful. My handicap at 105 was 22.8! I'm learning that I have to give up the idea of using my 54° wedge from that distance; it just doesn't reach. That's gotta be the GW, and the 120 is the PW.

It's still odd to me that the wedges are short while every other club in my bag is longer than it was last summer. I'm easily getting my 8 iron to 150 and my 7 to 165. But it's time to stop being stubborn on those scoring yardages and use the club that going to get the ball close.

The only other problem tonight was at the end, when I was trying to step on a couple of shots and hit them fat instead. The mat I have is fluffy; if you catch it fat, it kills distance and spin. It's great for keeping me honest.

At 175 yards, I had this sequence: fat shot 56 yards short (36 handicap), shot 5 yards short (+4 handicap), fat shot 49 yards short (36 handicap). So, yeah, that's gotta get fixed.

But on the plus side: no giant hooks tonight. Certainly still missed more left than right, but none of the off-the-planet shots that plagued me last time.

On the whole, I'm pleased. I'm seeing progress, and with more regular practice in my future, my expectations are high right now.

[MaxEntropy]

13 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

The 105 and 120 shots were still awful. My handicap at 105 was 22.8! I'm learning that I have to give up the idea of using my 54° wedge from that distance; it just doesn't reach. That's gotta be the GW, and the 120 is the PW.

It's always interesting to me how people can have similar handicaps but achieve them in completely different ways. Admittedly, I have never seen data like yours for myself, so I might be entirely wrong, but if I played a par 3 course with all holes in the 100 - 120 range, I'm pretty comfortable saying I could probably shoot well under my handicap with regularity. Make them all 60 yards, and the struggles begin. Make all the holes 400 yards, straight, and tight, I'd probably end up a 30 HC since driver is my (perceived) biggest weakness.

[GolfSpy MPR]

1 minute ago, MaxEntropy said:

It's always interesting to me how people can have similar handicaps but achieve them in completely different ways. Admittedly, I have never seen data like yours for myself, so I might be entirely wrong, but if I played a par 3 course with all holes in the 100 - 120 range, I'm pretty comfortable saying I could probably shoot well under my handicap with regularity. Make them all 60 yards, and the struggles begin. Make all the holes 400 yards, straight, and tight, I'd probably end up a 30 HC since driver is my (perceived) biggest weakness.

It's like Furyk and McIlroy playing 72 holes with a single shot separating them. It's like that, except way higher scores

I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to practice driver. I can't fit a driver swing in my garage, though I'm going to explore the possibility of removing a portion of the ceiling (yep, that's crazy). It may be that I have to create a setup outdoors once the snow melts, but I get nervous with that. My driver miss is a popup ball that can easily get over most nets and find its way to the neighbors' houses. That's not OK.

For now, though, I'm working to tighten everything up from 200 down to the green. If I can do that, my scores should still drop while I try to wrestle with my tee game later.

[MaxEntropy]

2 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

If I can do that, my scores should still drop while I try to wrestle with my tee game later.

My basement and garage are both low headroom, so I have no room to swing anything in the off-season. I've hit enough at various stores over the winter that I'm feeling pretty good about some minor changes I made with the driver, but need to get a range for verification. It's 53 today, so I might be able to sneak out this afternoon.

[JohnSmalls]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

 My driver miss is a popup ball that can easily get over most nets and find its way to the neighbors' houses. That's not OK.

 

Idk of the feasibility of this idea, but if you have 50 yards or so, and the main purpose of driver practice is ball flight consistency, it might be worth grabbing some birdie balls and the tee-ing solution they have, OR some durable wiffle balls.  In my own practice, I've found that they are most useful for finding consistency with straight ball flight.

[GolfSpy MPR]

2 minutes ago, JohnSmalls said:

Idk of the feasibility of this idea, but if you have 50 yards or so, and the main purpose of driver practice is ball flight consistency, it might be worth grabbing some birdie balls and the tee-ing solution they have, OR some durable wiffle balls.  In my own practice, I've found that they are most useful for finding consistency with straight ball flight.

There's a lot of value in this. I'd add that, with the foot spray, I can learn to find the center of the face with practice balls.

Being able to use the SkyTrak will be good (if I can figure it out) for optimizing launch angle and spin. Gaining distance is not an insignificant part of this project (as the first post in the thread indicates, I often average under 200 yards off the tee).

[romeopapazulu]

Idk of the feasibility of this idea, but if you have 50 yards or so, and the main purpose of driver practice is ball flight consistency, it might be worth grabbing some birdie balls and the tee-ing solution they have, OR some durable wiffle balls.  In my own practice, I've found that they are most useful for finding consistency with straight ball flight.

Hmmmm. I forgot I got three of these with my green. I'll have to give these a try with the driver soon!

Sent from my SM-A600A using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[yungkory]

4 hours ago, MaxEntropy said:

It's always interesting to me how people can have similar handicaps but achieve them in completely different ways. Admittedly, I have never seen data like yours for myself, so I might be entirely wrong, but if I played a par 3 course with all holes in the 100 - 120 range, I'm pretty comfortable saying I could probably shoot well under my handicap with regularity. Make them all 60 yards, and the struggles begin. Make all the holes 400 yards, straight, and tight, I'd probably end up a 30 HC since driver is my (perceived) biggest weakness.

Yep, which is why the "fitting your irons based on handicap" narrative is relatively BOGUS. That's what I've learned most on my journey with these 900 Tours.

I'm hovering around a 9 at the moment, but trending back up after 2 pretty terrible rounds. Keep grinding MPR, if I can do it, anyone can! I struggle with the EXACT same distance by the way. Ever consider looking at your wedge lofts? I think for me, personally, the jump from PW (46) to GW (52) is too large. When I get to 105-110y out I always have to make a decision to choke down and lay off of a PW, or try to muscle up a gap -- which usually just results in the ball going higher, not farther.

[JohnSmalls]

34 minutes ago, romeopapazulu said:

Hmmmm. I forgot I got three of these with my green. I'll have to give these a try with the driver soon!

Sent from my SM-A600A using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

Just a forewarning, you will need a teeing method and your BBs will take a beating from a driver .  But they can handle it.  Those things are incredibly durable for what they are.

4 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

eing able to use the SkyTrak will be good

I forgot about the early posts details in the driver distance category.  That's my fault.  For my own understanding with your gapping, you're on 165 with a 7 iron, and 200 with the driver?

I wish I could help you out with the SkyTrak.  I'm taking notes so that one day when I have my own I'll have learned from your journey! 

[MaxEntropy]

1 minute ago, yungkory said:

Yep, which is why the "fitting your irons based on handicap" narrative is relatively BOGUS. That's what I've learned most on my journey with these 900 Tours.

I'm hovering around a 9 at the moment, but trending back up after 2 pretty terrible rounds. Keep grinding MPR, if I can do it, anyone can! I struggle with the EXACT same distance by the way. Ever consider looking at your wedge lofts? I think for me, personally, the jump from PW (46) to GW (52) is too large. When I get to 105-110y out I always have to make a decision to choke down and lay off of a PW, or try to muscle up a gap -- which usually just results in the ball going higher, not farther.

One of the things that helped me from that distance is backing off my swing a bit. I CAN hit my gap wedge about 110 or a bit more, but it's erratic (like you, more height, less distance). Anything over 100-105 has become a choked down/partial PW. 125-130 is about my stock PW distance.

[GolfSpy MPR]

2 minutes ago, yungkory said:

Yep, which is why the "fitting your irons based on handicap" narrative is relatively BOGUS. That's what I've learned most on my journey with these 900 Tours.

I'm hovering around a 9 at the moment, but trending back up after 2 pretty terrible rounds. Keep grinding MPR, if I can do it, anyone can! I struggle with the EXACT same distance by the way. Ever consider looking at your wedge lofts? I think for me, personally, the jump from PW (46) to GW (52) is too large. When I get to 105-110y out I always have to make a decision to choke down and lay off of a PW, or try to muscle up a gap -- which usually just results in the ball going higher, not farther.

So here's what I've got with lofts:

• PW (G700): 44°
• GW (G700): 49°
• SW (MD3): 54°
• LW (PM Grind): 58°

Given the strength of the G700 lofts (combined with the hollow body, hot launching properties), it might make sense to go stronger than 54° with my SW, but then it stops being useful as a short game club, I would think.

I'm probably going to do another Skills Assessment on Thursday, using my GW for the 105 yard shot and the PW for the 120. Here's why I'm optimistic: using my GW for the 120 yard shot this past attempt, I hit shots of 106, 112, and 114. Keep in mind: I was trying to go 120, so I was swinging hard. I suspect a nice easy GW will be good at that 105 range.

If that doesn't solve that distance for me, then I'm going to have to look at my set makeup there.