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Tiger's Nike ball was a Bridgestone

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On 1/22/2019 at 9:37 AM, jacustomgolf said:

To me this is one area of golf I do not like.  The pros play different clubs/balls then the rest of us.  Why because production is king.  It is misleading to the consumer to have company A pay company B to put a logo on something.  Yes that is business and that is fine, but its misleading to us as the customer and we can change that.  This is the same for the price of golf clubs.  Why pay $650 for a driver?  Don't and when they don't sell the price will come down. 

This is commonplace in most sports, its all marketing. Look at the NHL, most of the sticks players are using are 2 to 3 models old with the latest and greatest paint jobs so people think that Crosby or Ovechkin or whoever is using the newest stick so they will buy it. 

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On 1/22/2019 at 9:37 AM, jacustomgolf said:

To me this is one area of golf I do not like.  The pros play different clubs/balls then the rest of us.  Why because production is king.  It is misleading to the consumer to have company A pay company B to put a logo on something.  Yes that is business and that is fine, but its misleading to us as the customer and we can change that.  This is the same for the price of golf clubs.  Why pay $650 for a driver?  Don't and when they don't sell the price will come down. 

The pros don’t really get much that’s not available at retail it’s that they get tighter specs from the production lines. Granted some balls are tour only for some players, some brands make lower lofted heads in drivers because some players don’t like the look when a higher lofted club is lofted up or down or they need a head to give them the launch window the player is looking for. They also have access to top fitters and clubmakers each week on the tour vans to make tweaks to the retail heads or shafts. After all they are making their living using this gear.

Other than tour validation testing golf shafts the players have is what we all have access to sometimes at a pretty penny because it’s aftermarket vice stock

in reality most amateurs have no need to play what a tour player uses or trying to mimick the swing the swing of a tour pro

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Posted (edited)

I don't think Nike would have had an actual Bridgestone ball model re-stamped for Nike or Tiger play a ball different from OTR.

 

1. Nike already went through backlash when the ball that Tiger plays was different from OTR. I think it was a Tour Accuracy TW? They had to pay for ads to inform (and apologize) the public, they had to reprint boxes to say ball is different from what Tiger plays, and accept exchanges/refunds.

2. The issues with being on the conforming list. I don't think different balls can have the same markings. That is why tour only ProVs and Callaways have different markings.

Edited by xxio

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27 minutes ago, xxio said:

I don't think Nike would have had an actual Bridgestone ball model re-stamped for Nike or Tiger play a ball different from OTR.

 

1. Nike already went through backlash when the ball that Tiger plays was different from OTR. I think it was a Tour Accuracy TW? They had to pay for ads to inform (and apologize) the public, they had to reprint boxes to say ball is different from what Tiger plays, and accept exchanges/refunds.

2. The issues with being on the conforming list. I don't think different balls can have the same markings. That is why tour only ProVs and Callaways have different markings.

Considering Nike had no real golf department when they started to include both clubs and balls they used Bridgestone to make balls and then stamp the Nike markings. Just like the entire time tiger played Nike irons they were only Nike stamped and were not Nike made/designed. 

This type of thing happens with some players. There’s a reason TaylorMade hired mike Taylor. He has done all the adjustments to tigers irons and continues to with TM. 

People can believe or not believe what they want, interpret what is written how they choose but I can tell you Bridgestone would not comment either way on the Nike ball actually being a Bridgestone ball. If it was a Nike ball that was manufactured in their facility they would be able to say that, since they wouldn’t confirm or deny it use that along with what tiger said, the txg video to put together the pieces of the puzzle.

tiger may switch club companies and ball sponsors but his irons have never changed abd he is very specific about specs, feel and launch windows and the fact he plays a retail ball are pretty good indications his ball never changed and all of Bridgestones designs are based on the ball he started with and evolved with. 

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I never said it was a Nike ball made at Nike facility. It has been mentioned and I guess is common knowledge among golf equipment addicts that Bridgestone made all of Nike's tour balls up to a certain point. I think they stopped right before the RZN series.

 

I just addressed the issue that Tiger was playing a Bridgestone ball model remarked to a swoosh and that it was different from retail, using logic of course.

 

It would be wonderful if we could uncover some sort of ball conspiracy.

 

I pointed out it already happened with the TW TA, I doubt Nike would have wanted to deal with the same PR and sales issues.

 

Is it too much of a horror to think that TW chooses or at least finally chose to play a OTR ball just so that he doesnt stand on the 18th in Pebble with only 1 ball left of a proto ball?

 

It must be horrible that he doesn't use a proto glove, shoe, socks, grips,......

 

Although his gamer irons are still different from those $2000 being sold 🙂

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Just to add, we don't know why Bridgestone won't comment.  NDA perhaps. It happens with irons outsourced to forging houses in China and Taiwan, that is why we have to keep guessing. The guys outsourced to make the retail version of TWs current irons are quiet.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, xxio said:

I never said it was a Nike ball made at Nike facility. It has been mentioned and I guess is common knowledge among golf equipment addicts that Bridgestone made all of Nike's tour balls up to a certain point. I think they stopped right before the RZN series.

 

I just addressed the issue that Tiger was playing a Bridgestone ball model remarked to a swoosh and that it was different from retail, using logic of course.

 

It would be wonderful if we could uncover some sort of ball conspiracy.

 

I pointed out it already happened with the TW TA, I doubt Nike would have wanted to deal with the same PR and sales issues.

 

Is it too much of a horror to think that TW chooses or at least finally chose to play a OTR ball just so that he doesnt stand on the 18th in Pebble with only 1 ball left of a proto ball?

 

It must be horrible that he doesn't use a proto glove, shoe, socks, grips,......

 

Although his gamer irons are still different from those $2000 being sold 🙂

Do you really think he would play a retail ball if Bridgestone could tweak a ball for him? He would be the a one of a kind that would turn down a better ball to play a retail ball.

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Here is what I have come up with in my limited research over the last few days.

Rock Ishii was employed by Bridgestone until 2002 when he was hired by Nike to start their own ball division.

Nike introduced their first ball in 1998. The Nike Precision Tour Control, Spin Control, Distance Control and Precision Control.

Tiger puts the Tour Accuracy ball in play in 2000 and goes on to win the TigerSlam. This has already been stated to be a Rock Ishii design in the article I posted earlier.

The Tour Accuracy TW is released to the public in 2001.

Then comes 2002 and Nike hires Ishii and starts their own ball division.

It has also been reported that while both were playing Nike balls that Rory wanted Tigers ball and was told no. I can neither confirm or deny this but I do remember reading this before.

Fast forward to 2018 and shinnecock hills. Reports are that tiger entered the pro shop and purchase a dozen Tour B XS balls. So it seems that everything I can find shows he currently plays an OTR Bridgestone Tour B XS ball.

Now with all that said I still cannot find substantial evidence that he played an OTR ball with Nike or that he always played a Bridgestone ball stamped Nike AFTER Nike had its own ball division.


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46 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Here is what I have come up with in my limited research over the last few days.

Rock Ishii was employed by Bridgestone until 2002 when he was hired by Nike to start their own ball division.

Nike introduced their first ball in 1998. The Nike Precision Tour Control, Spin Control, Distance Control and Precision Control.

Tiger puts the Tour Accuracy ball in play in 2000 and goes on to win the TigerSlam. This has already been stated to be a Rock Ishii design in the article I posted earlier.

The Tour Accuracy TW is released to the public in 2001.

Then comes 2002 and Nike hires Ishii and starts their own ball division.

It has also been reported that while both were playing Nike balls that Rory wanted Tigers ball and was told no. I can neither confirm or deny this but I do remember reading this before.

Fast forward to 2018 and shinnecock hills. Reports are that tiger entered the pro shop and purchase a dozen Tour B XS balls. So it seems that everything I can find shows he currently plays an OTR Bridgestone Tour B XS ball.

Now with all that said I still cannot find substantial evidence that he played an OTR ball with Nike or that he always played a Bridgestone ball stamped Nike AFTER Nike had its own ball division.


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You aren’t going to find anything that 100% confirms he played a Bridgestone ball with a Nike stamp but since Nike had no ball division when he started to most 2+2=4 (just like you won’t find anyone confirming miura made/makes his irons).  These are nuggets that get passed from those in the know to friends and so on. 

No one ever claimed he played a Nike otr ball. And just like with titleist, tm or Callaway unless you see the marking on the ball the player has in play you won’t know if they are playing a retail ball or a special ball made for them. 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Do you really think he would play a retail ball if Bridgestone could tweak a ball for him? He would be the a one of a kind that would turn down a better ball to play a retail ball.

I thought the discussion was about Tiger's Nike ball being a restamped Bridgestone?

If you want to discuss TW's current B XS, there are only 2 distinct XS models on the conforming list. The one available retail and the one with a dot between the B and XS. 

 

The others are color differences, the ones with the 5 dots on the seam is probably the alignment aid that is common in Bridgestone JDM only balls.

 

So ifvanyone has a close up of Tiger's ball and it has a dot between the B and XS then it is not available retail.

 

Strangely an XS model with Tiger printed on the seam is not on the conforming list. Does that make it non-conforming?

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7 hours ago, xxio said:

I thought the discussion was about Tiger's Nike ball being a restamped Bridgestone?

If you want to discuss TW's current B XS, there are only 2 distinct XS models on the conforming list. The one available retail and the one with a dot between the B and XS. 

 

The others are color differences, the ones with the 5 dots on the seam is probably the alignment aid that is common in Bridgestone JDM only balls.

 

So ifvanyone has a close up of Tiger's ball and it has a dot between the B and XS then it is not available retail.

 

Strangely an XS model with Tiger printed on the seam is not on the conforming list. Does that make it non-conforming?

The point is tiger stated the switch to Bridgestone ball was easy and he also confirmed what has been rumor to some and common knowledge to others that his ball has always been a Bridgestone ball and it just had a Nike stamp on it til he moved to Bridgestone proper. It is also known that he has never played a Nike iron or even a titleist iron but is a miura iron stamped with his sponsors logo. Miura still won’t confirm this and are even on video saying they heard the same thing and laughing. Probably will never be confirmed but is known by those around the industry. Now there is speculation that his TM irons are also miura with the tm milling and the modifications mike Taylor needs to make to get them to what tiger looks for in feel, launch window, etc. Mike has always done tigers irons and it’s why TM hired him.

The retail version of the XS Tiger plays ties into the Nike stamped Bridgestone ball. Using the logic that he doesn’t like to change (used the same shaft model as specs forever, point above about his irons) he used a Bridgestone ball designed by Rock Ishii while he was still working for Bridgestone and before Nike had any golf department and thus no ball designs. Tiger played this ball his entire career. Bridgestone uses that design and like any company tweaks where necessary as technology and club changes. So nothing has changed for tiger and his ball other than the logo on the ball. 

The logo stamping on another companies product happens more than most golfers know

 

 

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The point is tiger stated the switch to Bridgestone ball was easy and he also confirmed what has been rumor to some and common knowledge to others that his ball has always been a Bridgestone ball and it just had a Nike stamp on it til he moved to Bridgestone proper. It is also known that he has never played a Nike iron or even a titleist iron but is a miura iron stamped with his sponsors logo. Miura still won’t confirm this and are even on video saying they heard the same thing and laughing. Probably will never be confirmed but is known by those around the industry. Now there is speculation that his TM irons are also miura with the tm milling and the modifications mike Taylor needs to make to get them to what tiger looks for in feel, launch window, etc. Mike has always done tigers irons and it’s why TM hired him.
The retail version of the XS Tiger plays ties into the Nike stamped Bridgestone ball. Using the logic that he doesn’t like to change (used the same shaft model as specs forever, point above about his irons) he used a Bridgestone ball designed by Rock Ishii while he was still working for Bridgestone and before Nike had any golf department and thus no ball designs. Tiger played this ball his entire career. Bridgestone uses that design and like any company tweaks where necessary as technology and club changes. So nothing has changed for tiger and his ball other than the logo on the ball. 
The logo stamping on another companies product happens more than most golfers know
 
 


You quoted me saying “you won’t find it anywhere 100%”. You then say that Tiger confirmed it. Which is it? I can’t find where tiger confirmed anything other than what has been stated about Bridgestone making Nike’s ball for a “number of years”.

While you are correct that 2+2=4, that same logic cannot be applied here. A vague statement by Tiger + common knowledge that Tiger is picky does not equal this is the same ball Tiger used his whole career with a few tweaks.


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4 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

 


You quoted me saying “you won’t find it anywhere 100%”. You then say that Tiger confirmed it. Which is it? I can’t find where tiger confirmed anything other than what has been stated about Bridgestone making Nike’s ball for a “number of years”.

While you are correct that 2+2=4, that same logic cannot be applied here. A vague statement by Tiger + common knowledge that Tiger is picky does not equal this is the same ball Tiger used his whole career with a few tweaks.


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Nike and Bridgestone aren’t going to say that what tiger said is “my Nike ball was a Bridgestone stamped ball even after Nike started their ball division” so it won’t be found anywhere other than tigers words.

this is really nothing more than a back and forth at this point and unless Bridgestone or Nike says specifically what is common knowledge you aren’t going to accept what I’ve been trying to explain. 

Also not sure why it matters so much that it’s confirmed or not or who made his ball ir who designed it and then where it was made. Pros have access to or play equipment that the general consumer doesn’t. 

I get it you are a very curious person and relatively new to the game and trying to learn all kinds of things but in the grand scheme of things this subject is not real relevant. Only thing that really matters is Tiger is signed with Bridgestone, he plays the retail version of their ball and they can market this as the general public can play the same ball as tiger. This is something most of the ball companies can’t claim.

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Nike and Bridgestone aren’t going to say that what tiger said is “my Nike ball was a Bridgestone stamped ball even after Nike started their ball division” so it won’t be found anywhere other than tigers words.
this is really nothing more than a back and forth at this point and unless Bridgestone or Nike says specifically what is common knowledge you aren’t going to accept what I’ve been trying to explain. 
Also not sure why it matters so much that it’s confirmed or not or who made his ball ir who designed it and then where it was made. Pros have access to or play equipment that the general consumer doesn’t. 
I get it you are a very curious person and relatively new to the game and trying to learn all kinds of things but in the grand scheme of things this subject is not real relevant. Only thing that really matters is Tiger is signed with Bridgestone, he plays the retail version of their ball and they can market this as the general public can play the same ball as tiger. This is something most of the ball companies can’t claim.

You are right this is just a back and forth. I am not new to this game as I have been playing for 20+ years.

The reason I keep commenting and researching is because of others who may or may not know what to believe. Statements like this is the ball Tiger played his whole career without hard facts is opinion not fact. You stated in another thread that “one can find whatever they think is there even if it is not”.

Taking vague statements from a bunch of different people and drawing your own conclusions is called an opinion, not a fact. Throwing these opinions around like they are fact is what causes these types of back and forth. Your statements about Tiger’s ball always being a Bridgestone ball stamped Nike is your opinion that you drew from other peoples statements and that is ok. Just like my opinion is that until it is proven I will remain skeptical and question it anytime I read or hear these types of statements.


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35 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:


You are right this is just a back and forth. I am not new to this game as I have been playing for 20+ years.

The reason I keep commenting and researching is because of others who may or may not know what to believe. Statements like this is the ball Tiger played his whole career without hard facts is opinion not fact. You stated in another thread that “one can find whatever they think is there even if it is not”.

Taking vague statements from a bunch of different people and drawing your own conclusions is called an opinion, not a fact. Throwing these opinions around like they are fact is what causes these types of back and forth. Your statements about Tiger’s ball always being a Bridgestone ball stamped Nike is your opinion that you drew from other peoples statements and that is ok. Just like my opinion is that until it is proven I will remain skeptical and question it anytime I read or hear these types of statements.


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I’m not taking vague statements from vague people. I’m taking it from those who I either have talked to in the industry and what others have also heard and seen from their time in the industry. I’ve had the chance to talk to senior level managers at Bridgestone and they wouldn’t confirm what I’m telling you about the Nike stamp on their ball but the provided done vague insights. So from my personal knowledge, the statements from others tha stated the samething elsewhere on golf forums and chats, along with the same insights from others that he plays/played miura irons stamped with his sponsors logo on it to me confirms things.

And as you mentioned my comment in the other thread one can find what then want in anything. You are choosing to want more concrete evidence and I am choosing to use the knowledge I have from multiple sources on this subject plus the information about his miura irons, along with the information Tm has put out on the process they have gone thru with tiger to build his current set and have the ability to replicate more sets for him to minimize the time of getting him new irons and how specific he is with his equipment to come to say Nike had retail balls and a tiger ball that had nothing more than a Nike logo

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Not sure if this helps -- that's Adam Rehberg of Bridgestone. Video was shot by me in the Bridgestone Tour Van  in January - he took the Tiger bin out of a closet - it was sitting next to bins for Kuchar and DeChambeau. 


 

I get healthy skepticism, but in this case, Tiger plays the OTR Tour B XS - only difference is the stamping and they're all #1's. 

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I’m not taking vague statements from vague people. I’m taking it from those who I either have talked to in the industry and what others have also heard and seen from their time in the industry. I’ve had the chance to talk to senior level managers at Bridgestone and they wouldn’t confirm what I’m telling you about the Nike stamp on their ball but the provided done vague insights. So from my personal knowledge, the statements from others tha stated the samething elsewhere on golf forums and chats, along with the same insights from others that he plays/played miura irons stamped with his sponsors logo on it to me confirms things.

And as you mentioned my comment in the other thread one can find what then want in anything. You are choosing to want more concrete evidence and I am choosing to use the knowledge I have from multiple sources on this subject plus the information about his miura irons, along with the information Tm has put out on the process they have gone thru with tiger to build his current set and have the ability to replicate more sets for him to minimize the time of getting him new irons and how specific he is with his equipment to come to say Nike had retail balls and a tiger ball that had nothing more than a Nike logo

I’m not saying anything about his irons as this thread is titled Tiger’s Nike ball was a bridgestone. I merely stated that there is no evidence his ball remained a Bridgestone after Nike started making it’s own balls.

 

I am not saying that you are wrong either. I have no proof either way. At the same time you cant factually say I am wrong either because there are no facts either way.

 

Like you stated earlier it is a puzzle and it is up to each person to decipher for themselves. You are clearly passionate about your stance on this subject and I respect and admire that. It is one of the reasons I have stuck around, this is a place of passionate and respectful golf enthusiasts.

 

I have stated my stance and will bow out of this conversation until I get more information on the subject.

 

 

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Porsche has the Nissan factory make them a car from their own design. Puts their own badges on it.

 

Do we call it a Porsche or Nissan?

 

Still waiting for a picture of the stampings TWs current ball, unless it has a dot it is the retail ball unless TW wants his last green jacket taken away for playing a ball not on the conforming list.

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6 hours ago, xxio said:

Porsche has the Nissan factory make them a car from their own design. Puts their own badges on it.

 

Do we call it a Porsche or Nissan?

 

Still waiting for a picture of the stampings TWs current ball, unless it has a dot it is the retail ball unless TW wants his last green jacket taken away for playing a ball not on the conforming list.

Tigers not going to play a non confirming ball, Bridgestone isn’t going to give tiger non confirming balls. Bridgestone and others have confirmed he plays the retail ball.

bridgestone like other companies have players not playing retail balls so they have ball on the conforming list that we won’t get. 

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